Is Jaguar really a deep penetration strike aircraft ?

[ashdoc]

In my opinion it can at the most be classified as an attack aircraft........it neither has the range ,nor the payload capacity to be called a DPSA.

A DPSA must have a range exceeding 1000 km , and a large payload capacity .

But the combat radius of the Jaguar is only about 500 km without external fuel tanks ,and with them ( which reduces the weapons it carries to only 2000 kg ) ,it is only 800 km.

In the earlier days our Jaguars did not even have external refuelling pods to extend their range.

Its payload capacity is only 4000 kg.

Even the f-16 has more payload capacity ,at 5000 kg.

Now real DPSA aircraft are tornado , f-15E strike eagle , sukhoi 24 , sukhoi 34 etc.

They have combat radius of 1400-1800 km and can carry 8000 to 10,000 kg of weapons.

While the mig 27 can be called a close air support aircraft at the most,the jaguar is an attack aircraft only.........if DPSA capability is possessed by any aircraft with us , it is by the sukhoi-30 ,which has a combat radius ( without refuelling ,but with external tanks ) of 1500 km ,and a payload of 8000kg.

 

[luckyy]

before the induction of SU-30MKI , the responsibility of penetrate deep & strike was on Jaguar ,that time 800km range of Jaguar was considered good to penetrate & strike pakistan...

but the time has changed ,SU-30MKI has actually changed the vision of IAF , IAF is now more focused on china , ....

now there is talk of inducting SU-34 , which has a range of 4000km

 

[pankaj nema]

Jaguar was the FIRST plane IAF selected when IAF went for massive modernisation in 1981 after F 16 sale was announced to Pakistan.
But it took a while for it to be delivered and MIG 23 came earlier.

After the recent upgradation and a better engine which is being planned It is still a useful strike aircraft.

The range and payload limitations are of course there BUT we need "numbers" too for a war.

Jaguar ,Mig 21 , and Mig 27 might look old and outdated but we need these planes for 10 more years till LCA mk 2, MMRCA , PAK FA , and Su 30 Mki are added in LARGE NUMBERS.

 

[Rama]

india was offerd the mirage2000 but instead chose the jugar that was a very bad desion how different the iaf would be had the proper desion been made

 

[Singh]

IIRC Jaguar is one of the finest CAS craft

 

[SATISH]

First one needs to understand how our strike tactics work. We fly low and fast. Jaguar was designed for the same purpose. Jaguar was an aircraft which fitted the role perfectly. It can stay well beneath the radar and those were the days when there were no AWACS available and most of the aircraft didnt have look down and shoot down capability.

 

[StealthSniper]

I have a video about the Jaguar strike aircraft in my documentary thread. Here it is for anyone wanting to gain more knowledge about it.

 

[bhramos]

india was offerd the mirage2000 but instead chose the jugar that was a very bad desion how different the iaf would be had the proper desion been made

It was not true. IAF was offered Su-24 with license production by USSR, but why did IAF choose Jaguar ?
Mirage-2000 was designed in 1970's..... But India brought Jaguar in 1960's........

 

[F-14]

Indian Air Force :: Quarter Century of the Jaguar in India

hope this will help solve the question at hand

The HF-24: First Competitor of Jaguar

Meanwhile, India had the ambition to meet the DPSA requirement indigenously. The first prototype of the Hf-24 designed by Kurt W Tank (of Focke Wolf 190 fame) and his fifteen-man German team made its first flight in July 1961. But the aircraft did not have suitable engines. It was designed around the Orpheus-12 without India having tied up a contract for it with Bristol Siddeley.

Bristol Siddeley, knowing its strong position, tried to extract the full development cost of the Orpheus-12 from India. It was rumoured that similar demands, without distributing costs between possible customers, were made to Italy and Sweden. In the event, the engine was not acquired by anyone and its development ceased. This was a major blow to Indian ambitions of developing the HF-24 to its expected potential. The HF-24 entered IAF service in 1965 still underpowered by two Orpheus-703 engines.

However, its safety record was the best of all fighter aircraft in IAF service till then. On at least three occasions the HF-24 was flown back to base after losing one engine. The first was in the 1971 War over Pak territory during ground attack when one engine broke up after ingesting debris from the attack site. A kite hawk hit the innards of the left engine of another HF-24. The engine shattered and a three feet by three feet square gap opened up on its side. The aircraft was then over Udaipur. It flew back to its base in Jodhpur 157 nautical miles away on the other engine and landed safely. Incidents like this convinced the IAF that a two-engine aircraft would be ideal for the DPSA role.

A search for alternative engines for the Marut began. With the help of Rolls Royce and Dowty, the Gas Turbine Research Establishment modified the Orpheus 701 for reheat. These engines were being produced in India for the Gnat. The HF-24 Mk1A with two reheat capable engines was flown and soon an aircraft designated HF-24 Mk1R began its trials. It was intended to match the Jaguar in most respects. Unfortunately, the rear fuselage had simply been enlarged to accommodate the larger diameter engines. This raised its after-body drag to very high levels. A similar airframe of HF-24 was loaned and later presented to Egypt for installation of the E-300 engine under development for HA-300 light fighter designed by Willy Messerschmitt. The misconception in India was that the E-300 could be used to power the HF-24 and the aircraft used by both countries. Since the Egyptians had no interest in the HF-24, no real collaboration was possible and India pulled out of the project. This spelt the death-knell of the HA-300 and of India using the E-300 for the HF-24.

 

[F-14]

Indian Air Force :: Quarter Century of the Jaguar in India

hope this will help solve the question at hand

The HF-24: First Competitor of Jaguar

Meanwhile, India had the ambition to meet the DPSA requirement indigenously. The first prototype of the Hf-24 designed by Kurt W Tank (of Focke Wolf 190 fame) and his fifteen-man German team made its first flight in July 1961. But the aircraft did not have suitable engines. It was designed around the Orpheus-12 without India having tied up a contract for it with Bristol Siddeley.

Bristol Siddeley, knowing its strong position, tried to extract the full development cost of the Orpheus-12 from India. It was rumoured that similar demands, without distributing costs between possible customers, were made to Italy and Sweden. In the event, the engine was not acquired by anyone and its development ceased. This was a major blow to Indian ambitions of developing the HF-24 to its expected potential. The HF-24 entered IAF service in 1965 still underpowered by two Orpheus-703 engines.

However, its safety record was the best of all fighter aircraft in IAF service till then. On at least three occasions the HF-24 was flown back to base after losing one engine. The first was in the 1971 War over Pak territory during ground attack when one engine broke up after ingesting debris from the attack site. A kite hawk hit the innards of the left engine of another HF-24. The engine shattered and a three feet by three feet square gap opened up on its side. The aircraft was then over Udaipur. It flew back to its base in Jodhpur 157 nautical miles away on the other engine and landed safely. Incidents like this convinced the IAF that a two-engine aircraft would be ideal for the DPSA role.

A search for alternative engines for the Marut began. With the help of Rolls Royce and Dowty, the Gas Turbine Research Establishment modified the Orpheus 701 for reheat. These engines were being produced in India for the Gnat. The HF-24 Mk1A with two reheat capable engines was flown and soon an aircraft designated HF-24 Mk1R began its trials. It was intended to match the Jaguar in most respects. Unfortunately, the rear fuselage had simply been enlarged to accommodate the larger diameter engines. This raised its after-body drag to very high levels. A similar airframe of HF-24 was loaned and later presented to Egypt for installation of the E-300 engine under development for HA-300 light fighter designed by Willy Messerschmitt. The misconception in India was that the E-300 could be used to power the HF-24 and the aircraft used by both countries. Since the Egyptians had no interest in the HF-24, no real collaboration was possible and India pulled out of the project. This spelt the death-knell of the HA-300 and of India using the E-300 for the HF-24.

 

[smartindian]

It was not true. IAF was offered Su-24 with license production by USSR, but why did IAF choose Jaguar ?
Mirage-2000 was designed in 1970's..... But India brought Jaguar in 1960's........

hello sir jaguar was introduce in 1973 in raf then how can we get it in 1960's

 

[shaka]

Current role of Jaguar in IAF is of a sort of Bomb truck. It will most likely be used once air superiority is achieved. Su30MKI and M2000 will be used for deep penetration strike currently in case of a hot conflict. MKI most likely since it has range, payload and best counter measures currently in IAF. Once air launched Brahmos is inducted we can talk of serious deep penetration:happy_2:

 

[bhramos]

hello sir jaguar was introduce in 1973 in raf then how can we get it in 1960's

i mean it was introduced into service. so IAF only gets any plane after a decade of entering into service!!!!
@F-14, but Su-24 is a twin engined fighter. more powerful then Jaguar and more range and Payload...........

 

[F-14]

i also think why the Fencer was not chosen

 

[SATISH]

i also think why the Fencer was not chosen

We already had enough problems with the MiG 23 during that time. And being a swing wing design made the fencer servicability a nightmare. And we also wanted diversity in our inventory that time too.

 

[charlie]

IIRC Jaguar is one of the finest CAS craft

it was not a good CAS aircraft only A10 & su 25 are good CAS aircraft