India's vain search for peace in Pak's diplomacy of the absurd

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Ray, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    India's vain search for peace in Pak's diplomacy of the absurd

    Delhi's Pakistan policy has all the emotional intensity of a battered wife with a karmic commitment to marriage. Justice must surrender to appeasement in the pursuit of some higher purpose.

    Rehman Malik was Pakistan's home minister when killers backed by ISI and organised by a terrorist outfit, Lashkar-e-Taiba, murdered innocents in Mumbai on November 26, 2008. Malik breezed into Delhi to tell India that he had no desire to pursue, let alone apprehend, the mastermind of 26/11, Lashkar chief Hafiz Saeed. It was time, he added gratuitously, to move on.

    Rehman Malik does not understand niceties. He refuses to wear a cloak patched with the grace of dextrous language and the discretion of diplomacy. He is neither unique in Pakistan's governing elite, nor a maverick; he is dangerous only because he is blunt. He knows the truth about the narrative rife within the cantonment and those caustic by-lanes along the main street which distrust India, despise its secularism and invest in conflict. He was telling it straight with the only kind of mind he possesses, and applause duly swelled from his many-tiered constituency within Pakistan's media, armed forces and madrassas, a powerful troika.

    Malik's logic goes like this: "Mumbai terrorism is India's failure, not Pakistan's fault. India is responsible for the root cause, Kashmir, and therefore must factor in the possibility that there will always be 'freedom-fighters' determined to rescue Kashmir Muslims from 'Hindu domination' just as Pakistan was liberated from 'Hindu rule' in 1947. India's intelligence agencies failed to prevent the terrorist attack in 2008 despite the fact that operatives like Headley were roaming around helped by Indian friends and well-wishers. Why should Pakistan punish fighters who believe Kashmir should be part of Pakistan? It is India's problem, and if India hangs one of them, that is part of war. So do not blame Pakistan and let's keep riding the twin horses of talks and cricket- till the next time."

    This is the mindset that remains the biggest obstacle to peace between India and Pakistan. Malik has simply lifted this truth from private discourse into public space.

    This leaves Indians desirous of peace befuddled. One of the secondary ploys in this great game played in toxic fog is the second-track dialogue, a set-piece interaction meant to smooth rough-edge problems before they can be discussed formally by governments. One can appreciate the peacenik's dilemma: to admit this truth is to accept defeat even before the foreplay has begun. Indians travel to Lahore possibly prepared to be whelmed, and discover they have been overwhelmed by hospitality which is effusive and genuine because it comes from the heart. And then they confuse this with Islamabad's policies, which emerge from the head; one that swings between insecurity and aggression.

    The eventual realisation that war is futile never seems to prevent successive Pakistani leaders, civilian or military, from attempting yet another provocation in the hope of weakening India. In 1947, the first serious decision taken by Jinnah and Liaquat Ali Khan was not how to stabilize and build their new nation, but to seize Kashmir through war, when its status would have been determined through peaceful negotiations.(Jawaharlal Nehru, in a confidential note to Mountbatten, formally suggested that discussions on Kashmir, which had what was known as "standstill" agreements with both India and Pakistan, begin in the spring of 1948.) Ayub Khan and Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, who wanted to fight India for a thousand years, launched their own invasion in 1965. Yahya Khan attacked India in 1971 and lost half his country. Zia ul Haq sustained Khalistani secessionists in an insurrection which damaged India very deeply. Pervez Musharraf entered Kargil even before his coup against Nawaz Sharif. Asif Zardari was in office when Mumbai happened, and his home minister has shrugged off India's demand for accountability with jibes, half-truths and explanations that are manifestly dishonest.

    Pakistani leaders have tried everything from the implausible to the unforgiveable without worrying about the unacceptable. The Indian response, most often but not always, is best summed up in a Urdu couplet: Rasmein ulfat ko nibhayen kaise, Har taraf aag hai daman ko bachaye kaise… (rough, and inadequate translation: How do I honour the rules of love; there is fire everywhere, how do I save myself from flames?).

    Pessimism is not a solution. There is hope in Pakistani hospitality. The corridors of power in Islamabad are arid; but in the heart of most Pakistanis there is fertile space for harmony. This is more easily said than done, for governments become a barrier, but it can be done. Cricket is an excellent way of reaching out to the people. Sport easily slips out of the grasp of authority and reminds people of the enormous dividends that lie in peace. A great sportsman, Imran Khan, could be part of Pakistan's government in 2013. Is it time for optimism?

    India's vain search for peace in Pak's diplomacy of the absurd by The Siege Within : MJ Akbar's blog-The Times Of India

    ***********************

    An interesting article.

    Is it a vain Indian search for Peace or is it a clever ploy to keep hopes high to keep the International, Pakistani and the Indians in a fond delusion like the elusive apple that should fall but does not as it tantalisingly holds on to the branch of intense historical animosity?

    Should India keep this charade in full flow as it is doing or get a grip on the reality?

    How far is Malik correct to announce that the Mumbai massacre was actually a failure of India?

    If so, where all did India fail? Politically, diplomatically, on the intelligence front, or totally security unreadiness?

    Should cricket and such like diversions be an on going process to build a better people to people relations or should such activities be junked?

    Again the issue crops up - Should India keep this charade in full flow as it is doing or get a grip on the reality?
     
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  3. illusion8

    illusion8 Regular Member

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    Pakistan is not a state in the General term, it's a weapon owned by the deep state which is a combination of the ISI, GHQ and the army bigwigs. It's a weapon that's been used against the Soviet's, Afghan's and us, sometimes it becomes the Islamic sword used by the Saudi Arabs to spread their Wahhabi ideology, and at other times it becomes the India containment factor for the chinese. Jinnah assured the British that Pakistan will be the west's weapon against the Soviets in the 1940's and proved it in the 80's and 90's. Pakistan is always for sale to the West, the Arabs, the Chinese and to the terrorists and to whoever is willing to pay them - including the Russians and the Iranians who intend on paying them for services that Pakistan can render, As soon as we agree to this we will have a clearer picture as to what are we dealing with. We are dealing with a group of thugs that rule 200 million people.

    India's main issue is it deals with the puppets thats their Govt while the others - the Chinese, Americans and the Russians deal with the deep state -
    For eg,
    1. The US refused to incriminate the ISI because if they alienate them then they have a problem in Afghanistan
    2. The army Generals and the ISI honcho's made multiple trips to Russia after the Pak - Rus thaw in relations - precisely to sell their wares and negotiate the price.
    3. The army generals and the deep state routinely make trips every month to China - precisely because they are the rulers of Pakistan.
    4. The democracy farce that's ongoing in Pakistan is on the US's instructions which wanted to see a democratic Govt in place - remembering Haqqani's memo to the US - the deep state wanted to wipe out the Govt - but Zardari pleaded with the US to let them stay a term and the US obliged and in turn made GHQ comply.

    So, it's amply clear that we are discussing with the wrong entities inside Pakistan and that we are not offering them the right price to encourage them to sell themselves to us - If we are sure of what we want to purchase from Pakistan and we can negotiate with them on the price then we may have a deal.

    Effectively we should stop wasting our time with the puppets and talk to the one's that matter and if we do not have an access - at least we will be saving travelling expenses.

    Precisely, he is right - India should have taken care of Pakistan when we had the chance so it is India's failure. Albright rightly said "Pakistan is an International migraine" and more of a migraine to India and now to Afghanistan as well. There's only one solution as far as Pakistan goes and that is - it ceases to remain our migraine.

    It failed politically - we have been wasting time with ceremonies and hosting puppets.
    diplomatically - NO - everyone knows what Pakistan is now and that is a victory for India, and YES - we couldn't convince Pakistan's buyers to stop their purchase and we couldn't outbuy them.
    Intelligence failure - our intelligence does a commendable job, though it could improve more and we cannot be failure proof always - Mumbai showed what Pakistan is capable of - and we have to gear up to tackle them at those levels.

    It's a waste of time, energy and money - the Pakistani populace are sheep to the slaughter which the state does not think twice before offering them, so what they think does not matter at all - they are equally for sale to the Talibani fundoos, wahhabi's and mullahs and earlier to the Kashmiri and Afghani Mujahadeens.

    The reality is as I mentioned and I sincerely hope our people who matter know this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
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  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I have always said there can be no peace with Pakistan with or without settlement on Kashmir. Understand his base point. Build tall, wide and strong fences. Develop balls to retaliate within provoked. Keep status quo till the next big war. When war happens make sure Pak is Balkanized.
     
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  5. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Simply concluding, it means this proxy state should not exist for the well-being of India as one entity. It should be fragmented and there should be four to five proxy states instead, making it easier for India to deal with them. The US, Russia, China, Iran and Sauds will have to deal with four to five states to trouble India or control CAR.
     
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  6. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    malik is a robotic stooge of paki army and the ISI!!! He came, he blurted and fuxxed off!!!
     
  7. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Certainly i support the LOC should be made international border.

    I mean there is now way either india getting pak kashmir or pak getting indian kashmir without nuclear war.

    So it would be better to make LOC international border.
    *After that pak and india officially should cease any kind of relations with each other.

    and de recoginize each other
     
  8. illusion8

    illusion8 Regular Member

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    Fundamentally that's the way the whole Pakistani cauldron is headed towards - The Punjabi's and to an extent the Sindhi's are the ruling elite who form the deep state, If things go anymore out of control and a civil war breaks out what we might have is Sindh and Punjab forming a state and the others merging with Afghanistan or Iran or forming different states, The deep state's affiliation towards the Baloch or the Pathans is limited to the control on the area and resources of Balochistan and the militants and the Mujahadeen factor of the Pustoon and the Frontier tribes. These factors are used against the Afghans and the Kashmiri, Baltis and Gilgit populations are used against India both as propaganda and as militant supply.
     
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Why wait till after?
    And no I am not too keen to lose any part of my home.
    Patience is key for India. It's Pakistan which loses patience way decade..

    BTW your country will never give up its animosity with India,.
     
  10. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I would like add one point . Bilateral cricket series is mostly used to pass spies in disguise of cricket lovers and they do recky of cities / gov installations . this happened durning 26/11 . and would happen in future to,
     
  11. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    That is why GoI has changed the law. Pakistanis will require an Indian sponsor
     
  12. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    i don't think so.

    we can cease any kind of relation until the kashmir problem is solved.
    well i support musharaf version of kashmir solution as well
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    There will be no cessation of hostilities ever. Even if India hands over Kashmir to Pakistan on a platter'
     
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  14. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    well if your tired of hostilities than you have to completely reform RAW.

    again depends upon you
     
  15. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Musharraf offers Kashmir 'solution' | World news | guardian.co.uk
     
  16. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Why ?

    As long as Pakistanis are killing themselves or being killed by drones all is cool.
     
  17. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Oh no We are not tired at all. Ground realities say Pakistan hearts no hostilities well overtly at least while it continues to peddle proxy war.

    Indo-Pak relations aunt about Kashmir alone. If it was, why would Rahman Malik comment on Babri Masjid? why ISI/PA/LeT useGujarat riots to brainwash "Kasabs" to kill in India? Dont live in any delusion.
     
  18. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Then get out of Kashmir. Kashmiris rule Indian side after voting in large numbers. What rights to the people of Kashmir have on your occupied side?

    Self Rule is there on Indian Side. Rest of Indians cant even settle in Kashmir, own land etc.
     
  19. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    well ISI and RAW both are intelligence agencies.and they will always fight in favor of there countries.be it even proxy war or whatever.

    Rahman malik is stupid.instead of babri masjid.he should have demanded col.purohit in return or complete full stop on mumbai attack investigations etc
     
  20. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    You missed the rest of the Post. Basic point missed, well deliberately I guess
     
  21. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Yeah i know this.bt here is i guess different.any one can buy land or anything in kashmir.if i am nt wrong

    though may be even if ISI is training them or whatever let suppose.bt the kashmiri on your side are equally responsible.

    i mean they dnt allow you guys to purchase land/etc.

    if you think ISI is supporting them than not only the ISI is responsible bt kashmiri as well.
     

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