India's Op Geronimo Against Dawood :-)

chex3009

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/\/\/\ Such missions might be possible after 2020 when India becomes militarily strong with modern hardware. The enemy then would think it to be futile to shoot down an aircraft or have an aggressive posture, and lie low. This is what happened on May 1. Coupled with the fact that Pakistan runs into even deeper mess with terrorists eating up the country.

If Pakistan gets out of denial mode and starts acting against all terrorists groups, no operation would be required. They can clean it up, they need the will.
O there are lots of generous western and ME nations out there to balance Pakistan with India, So that the Islamic Nuke still have some value to it. Its not so easy to get way in quality and quantity against a nation which evey odd day threatens the neighbours and world with their nukes and we give in to this bluff of theirs.
 

prototype

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/\/\/\ Such missions might be possible after 2020 when India becomes militarily strong with modern hardware. The enemy then would think it to be futile to shoot down an aircraft or have an aggressive posture, and lie low. This is what happened on May 1. Coupled with the fact that Pakistan runs into even deeper mess with terrorists eating up the country.

If Pakistan gets out of denial mode and starts acting against all terrorists groups, no operation would be required. They can clean it up, they need the will.
I dont think the success rates of such mission's are anywhere linked to be with our chances of a developed nation,this is about determining loopholes and an advanced intelligence system,every nation performs such mission during war time irrespective of the risk involved because of the necessity attached to it,but during peace times this can be more about an option rather than necessity.

If the radars were jammed in the western sector or it was not functional as claimed by their air cheif,both of this points towards serious loopholes in their defense mechanism,but again we r not sure about their exact role in this operation.

All we need is to find out such loopholes before initiating a stealth operation,but again Karachi is not some park to walk,its one of their heavily fortified zones,eventually great amount of risk is attached to such operation's.
 

Sabir

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I think a similar thread is already there...Mod ..plz merge it with the older thread...
 

Oracle

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I dont think the success rates of such mission's are anywhere linked to be with our chances of a developed nation,this is about determining loopholes and an advanced intelligence system,every nation performs such mission during war time irrespective of the risk involved because of the necessity attached to it,but during peace times this can be more about an option rather than necessity.

If the radars were jammed in the western sector or it was not functional as claimed by their air cheif,both of this points towards serious loopholes in their defense mechanism,but again we r not sure about their exact role in this operation.

All we need is to find out such loopholes before initiating a stealth operation,but again Karachi is not some park to walk,its one of their heavily fortified zones,eventually great amount of risk is attached to such operation's.
I was talking about militarily strong, not being a developed nation. India is nowhere close. Even if we consider Pakistan bluffing with their nukes, it would take just one nut case to convert it into a nuclear escalation.
 

Patriot

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India's Own Operation Geronimo?


Preparing for a strike today could avoid the need for an actual one tomorrow.


Every time there is a Pakistan-sourced terrorist attack in India, the reaction in the world's largest democracy is predictable. Demands range from "hot pursuit" of the terrorists across the border to cries for all-out war. In the last decade, analysts have proposed other alternatives: surgical air strikes, a limited armored offensive and covert operations. The latter option seems especially inviting after U.S. special forces took out Osama bin Laden last Sunday.

These demands for strong action are in stark contrast with the way the Indian government has responded to these attacks: pursuing bland diplomacy. The starker this contrast gets, the more complicated it will be for New Delhi to implement a foreign policy that is assertive, yet careful and deterrent, in the future. Instead, if the government displays the requisite will and capabilities for a targeted strike today, it can avoid the need for an actual strike later.

History offers some perspective. After the Pakistani-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and Jaish-e-Mohammed attacked New Delhi's Parliament in December 2001, the U.S. had to step in quickly to prevent armed clashes between the arch rivals. In May 2002, following yet another terrorist attack and after months of coercive diplomacy by both New Delhi and Washington, Pakistani dictator Pervez Musharraf offered a very strong assurance that his country's territory would not be used to host attacks against India. This assurance was conveyed to New Delhi by then-U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, who said that terrorism emanating from Pakistan would end "permanently, irreversibly, visibly and to the satisfaction of India."

New Delhi bought that assurance and started to reach out to Islamabad diplomatically. Yet its pattern of responses since 2002 has led to six more terrorist attacks originating in Pakistan. All Islamabad has done is give similar reassurances.

After the attack on Mumbai in November 2008, India found itself in the same trap. It issued the usual protests accompanied by vague threats of retaliation and called off the dialogue that had started a few years ago. But Islamabad denied any state complicity. At that point, India's strategic-affairs and military community noted that New Delhi had to raise Pakistan's costs of encouraging cross-border terrorism.

However, by 2009, the Manmohan Singh government's energies were focused on sending dossiers of evidence to Islamabad, pointing to proof of LeT's hand in the Mumbai attacks. Pakistan's civilian government stalled on them. Still, Mr. Singh staked his reputation on trying to start a dialogue. Earlier this year it began, most visibly at the sidelines of the cricket world cup.

These diplomatic back-and-forths have not yielded results. Despite playing nice, Islamabad has snubbed its neighbor's friendliness. Last week, Pakistan's government called India's demand for the Mumbai 2008 suspects "familiar and outdated."

What should New Delhi do then? Even with the world's fourth largest military, India has failed to deter Pakistan's cross-border terrorism. Now, the success of America's Operation Geronimo in killing bin Laden has whetted its appetite to do more. Last week, when asked if India could pull off a similar mission, India's armed service chiefs replied in the affirmative.

This could well be bravado on the chiefs' part, because India suffers from fundamental deficiencies. For one, India's political leadership has been risk-averse. Even before the two sides fought a limited war in Kashmir in 1999, New Delhi had already announced that it would never cross the Line of Control, the de facto border. This tied the Indian army's hands when Pakistan crossed this amorphous line and claimed Indian soil as its down. More broadly, India has a history of strategic restraint, which means its diplomatic and military strategy hasn't been focused on assertively achieving select goals.

As a result, India has invested in neither the legal architecture nor the physical capabilities to pull off an Operation Geronimo. For instance, U.S. counterterrorism policy declares that terrorists in breach of U.S. laws who are harbored by any state will be brought back for prosecution through "induced cooperation" and, when necessary, force. India needs something like this. Such laws would give its counterterror operators legal cover as well as set the ground for dealing with other gray legalities in the war on terror.

Then there's the question of what intelligence and arms India can put on the ground. Its human intelligence across the border and experience in foreign clandestine operations is weak. Unlike the U.S.—which probably maintains an estimated 3,000-4,000 intelligence operatives in Pakistan—India has been scaling back its intelligence infrastructure inside that country for the past 15 years. In the late 1990s, then-Prime Minister Inder Kumar Gujral consciously dismantled this infrastructure as part of a new doctrine for peace, a grave strategic error.

Equipment- and training-wise, too, India falls short. Indian commandos freed the Mumbai hostages with much clumsiness over a prolonged 72-hour operation in November 2008, making some wonder how they would operate in alien environments.

None of this is to suggest that India should prosecute an operation similar to Geronimo in coming months. But being ready for one is necessary. It sends a strong psychological deterrent to those in Pakistan's intelligence services who may sympathize with and assist the likes of LeT—just like possessing more tanks and fighter jets deters a conventional military threat. It suggests to Islamabad that New Delhi has the necessary political will.

Preparing for such small operations can prevent larger debacles in the future. Unless Pakistan's military-jihadi complex is completely dismantled, it can still pose a threat to India. And the more that threat looms large and the less India prepares to stay ahead of it, there could come a day when a big terrorist attack makes India's electorate—infuriated with its government's bland version of diplomacy—scream for blood.

Political pressure could then compel an Indian prime minister to hurriedly send in a team of commandos without any direction. Worse, it could hurl the subcontinent into full-scale war.

Mr. Mehta is a retired major general of the Indian Army and founder member of India's
Defence Planning Staff.
 

sandeepdg

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India studies Osama operation, recognises Pak like flaws

NEW DELHI: If someone were to sneak in and carry out a special forces raid, like the Americans did in Abbottabad to take out Osama bin Laden, the Indian response may not be very different from that of Pakistan, sources in the security establishment said.
In the wake of such a disappointing realization, the government has begun discussing ways to improve India's response mechanisms, including designating 'first responders' for such eventualities.

The Abbottabad raid is now under intense scrutiny by the security establishment at the highest levels, and by individual organizations such as intelligence agencies and the military. Each of them is studying it from their own perspective, but collectively their inputs "would help improve Indian security architecture", a senior official said.

Government at the highest levels is "seized of the reality" that Indian security response would not be very different from that of Pakistan, and is setting in motion reviews at various levels to improve its response mechanisms, a senior official involved in the exercise told TOI. While the overall architecture of defence against intrusions is known, such as the role of IAF and Army, there are still huge gaps. What is not clear is "who would respond how and when if an Abbottabad-like intrusion" were to happen, he said.

Another official pointed out that the details of response of various agencies as soon as first shots were fired in Abbottabad are of great value to the security establishment. While the Kakul Military Academy and other security installations tightened their own security as soon as the gunshots rang out from the Abbottabad compound, there was no designated agency that was meant to reach the particular spot to take on the "intruder", the official said.

"We have a similar problem," another officer said, adding that the government will work on designating an agency, or agencies, as first responders to reach a spot in case of an intrusion, especially in civilian areas.

Meanwhile, sources in various security agencies said each of them was studying the Abbottabad raid for their internal education and possible improvements.

IAF is preparing a detailed report on the entire operation. Sources said the first fighters scrambled by the Pakistan Air Force took to the sky only an hour after the Americans had completed their operation. Once airborne, PAF fighters kept flying until the morning for no apparent reason.

Army headquarters has already had a few rounds of consultations about the operation, which is now being considered an almost perfect special forces operation with strategic aims. Army is especially looking at it from the perspective of special forces, an area where India will have to look at improving quality though it boasts numbers.

India studies Osama operation, recognises Pak like flaws - The Times of India
 

nrj

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Depicted illustration taking out dawood is really funny. Marine commandos meet RAW agents on shore then commuting in hired bus?? LOL.

--

On serious note, Special Frontier Forces have capability to undertake such mission. To operate covertly behind enemy lines. Wasn't osama just 60-70km away from LAC?

We reduced SFF's area of operation during '80s. Time to review it. SFF is less talked but very powerful asset Indians have got.
 

sayareakd

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if we want to take out this smuggler then why not use single man rather then whole team to take him out, Carbon monoxide or other poisonous substance is better alternative if we can place a man inside his house or inner circle, cook or servant.

US type operation specially for country like India is not good in short run. Although having 15-20 car bomb close to him wont be bad idea but it will result collateral damage and killing of innocent civilians.
 

nrj

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if we want to take out this smuggler then why not use single man rather then whole team to take him out, Carbon monoxide or other poisonous substance is better alternative if we can place a man inside his house or inner circle, cook or servant.

US type operation specially for country like India is not good in short run. Although having 15-20 car bomb close to him wont be bad idea but it will result collateral damage and killing of innocent civilians.
Then how can we prove that Pak was protecting him & was instrument of their offense? :becky:
 

sayareakd

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@nrj taking him out would caused biggest success against ISI, every one knows that ISI not only shelter him but also protect him with three ring security cover.
 

nrj

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@nrj taking him out would caused biggest success against ISI, every one knows that ISI not only shelter him but also protect him with three ring security cover.
Capturing him alive is far more important than just killing like that.

Its not question of capability but convicting him under jurisdiction & staging that confession is real critical.
 

sayareakd

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@nrj putting bullet in him will solve lot of our problems w.r.t ISI, look what US did to OBL.
 

debasree

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nice dream,but in reallity we dont have the capabillity or will power to act,we allways want to play good guys in the front of the west,and our pollitical class still live in the era of gandhiji their motto is when anybody slap u ,u dont defend but place yours face for more slapping.
 

nrj

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Today Dawood is, the prime broker in supplying weapons to naxalites via nepal,bhutan. Runs a string of smuggling network from Malaysia,Indonesia. Has financial & logistics link with AQ/LeT.

It is important to extract all this information from him before executing. Killing him,can solve future problems but pulling out his current affairs which are causing damages is very crucial.

And why waste a bullet? I will prefer to feed him to the dogs while saving one.
 

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