India's next big buy is a missile from US

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by RPK, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. RPK

    RPK Indyakudimahan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,882
    Likes Received:
    130
    Location:
    13° 4'60.00"N 80°16'60.00"E
    India's next big buy is a missile from US - dnaindia.com

    New Delhi: India is looking at the possibility of yet another major government-to-government military deal with the United States.

    The army headquarters is in the advanced stages of evaluating the Javelin anti-tank missile for large-scale induction. If the missile suits India, it could lead to another FMS (foreign military sale) deal with the US, without competitive international tendering, and possibly even without extensive field trials.

    The arrangement, if it works out, would be a strong signal about India's intention to continue taking in US military products despite hiccups in bilateral ties that cropped up since the Obama administration took charge in the US. Sources said the deal could run into several hundred million dollars.

    It is not clear how the induction of Javelin would affect the indigenously developed Nag anti-tank missiles, which were cleared for production this July after two decades of trials and research. The Indian Army has ordered 443 Nag missiles and 13 missile carriers.

    Since the Nag was on the drawing board for several years, the Army started desperately looking for new generation anti-tank missiles to penetrate modern day tanks. As of now, the Army has old Milan missiles, a European product, and the Russian Konkours, both of which are manufactured in India under licence at the Bharat Dynamics Limited.

    Last summer, India was looking to purchase the Israeli anti-tank missile, Spike, but that plan had to be abandoned after the missile failed miserably at the trials in Pokhran. It may just be a coincidence that the Army has not opted for international competitive tendering for buying the missile, and it fits into the larger trend emerging in military purchases -- of minimal competitive tendering, and preference for non-tender purchases.

    Beneficiaries of this easy route are Israel, US, and to some extent Russia. While purchases from Israel and US are mostly new, Russia is the beneficiary of "repeat orders" on the Sukhoi-30 MKI and MIG-29K fighters as well as helicopters.
     
  2.  
  3. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,563
    Likes Received:
    19
    the The FGM-148 Javelin is an American-made man-portable anti-tank guided missile

    the Nag is a Havey anti-tank guided missile disinged to be launced from the Namica's and the Weponizied Dhruv and the LCH
     
  4. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Location:
    Bangalore
    Hogwash article. How does man portable missiles compare with heavy vehicle fired missiles?

    Typical DDM
     
  5. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,563
    Likes Received:
    19
    i think nitishji we need to prun the defense reporting sector in the Indian News media
     
  6. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,553
    Likes Received:
    6,565
    another Indian missile program down.
     
  7. indian_blues

    indian_blues Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2009
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    16
    India's buying spree really undermines the indeginous programmes, probably we should cool down a bit.
     
  8. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    266
    Location:
    Boston
    "another Indian missile program down."

    "India's buying spree really undermines the indeginous programmes, probably we should cool down a bit."

    "Sources said the deal could run into several hundred million dollars."

    From what I've read, the Nag was successfully tested. If hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent on a foreign weapon system then we are unlikely to see a second-generation Nag anytime soon. For those of us who enjoy a diversity of weapons systems, this is bad news.
     
  9. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,316
    Likes Received:
    139

    Guys, don't get so disheartened.

    As F-14 said before, Javelin is a light Man-portable missile, with a max range of 2.5 km. It can also be used in anti-personnel or anti-bunker/building role.

    The Nag is a heavy pure anti-armor missile (IIR Seeker - MMW Seeker in development?) with a range of 7 km.

    The purpose and operation is different for the two, its like comparing apples and oranges.

    We may still see Nag-2 with extended range, better armor penetration and MMW seeker. Also, the helicopter launched version (for LCH) is rumored to be in development.
     
  10. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    65
    I remember back in 2004 the US Marines were critised for using the Javeline to take out buildings with suspected insurgents. Instead of using the cheap AT4, they used a $200,000 launcher. IMO, the Javeline's range is really too limited to be an effective weapon against tanks, and against buildings and personnell it is far too expensive. Rocket launchers are just as effective against the low cost targets.
     
  11. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    518
    Location:
    California
    You guys who are always talking about indigenous weapons dont seem to get a simple point - The main job of the army commanders to to make sure that they give their men in uniform that best weapons, tactics, leadership, and chances of success in a war.

    The boys in the uniform are the ones who are laying their lives on the line for the country. It is not the job of an Indian General to wait till some goverment lab comes up with a suitable weapon system that meets the requirements while his troops are left with endless assurances but no hardware or substandard hardware.

    Indigenous systems are great but, asking the army to compromise their effectiveness to wait for locally made systems to mature, is just something that no army commander will want to do.

    This is why weapons systems should be developed by private firms and not government organisations. If a private Indian company develops a weapon system that is not up to the Army's standards; they can simply reject it without much fuss.

    But when you have DRDO Labs developing every single item; if the Army rejects a sub-standard system, then invariably it becomes a very politically heated issue with multiple government entities each vying to protect their own turf and the politicians will then get dragged into the debate.

    Eventually the Army may be forced to induct substandard/out-of-date products that the Army commanders themselves know will compromise the safety and effectiveness of the frontline troops.

    If you are an Army Commander; there is probably nothing worse than knowing that you are not able to give your men that best weapons and the best chance of survival because of some beaurocratic political bullshit.
     
  12. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Location:
    Bangalore
    This whole talk is BS here NAG is vehicle mounted and heli mounted (in development) missile. It is NOT man portable missile. It has it's own role to play of dedicated anti armor with regular armor formations and infantry battalions or mechanized formations. Just talking jingoistic about home grown products not getting accepted or talking baseless about forces not accepting inferior weapons without putting facts and figures is not a good sign kindly desist from the same.
     
  13. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    156
    mattster, you seem to forget one thing. whether an equipment is imported or manufactured by a private firm or drdo - it has to go through the user trials conducted by the respective armed wing and it has to meet the stated requirements. so, when anybody talks of indigenous equipment, the above point is taken into consideration.
     
  14. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,473
    Likes Received:
    1,015
    France is also buying them For afghan operations over their own Milans. So we also have to move , But what happened to purchase of Spikes from Israel.
     
  15. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    518
    Location:
    California
    Oh Yeah........"stated requirements" is the key word. What happens when the so called "stated requirements" are massaged, bent, and moulded so that a substandard system is forced to be inducted.

    Dont tell me this did not happen with the overweight Arjun !!

    At least the Chinese are smart enough not to induct some of their own lousy systems; for instance even the chinese airforce refused to induct the chinese made fighter. They export it to other countries.
     
  16. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    156
    sorry. you are wrong. if you read the history of arjun you will know. arjun is the result of IA's own requirement. they wanted a heavy mbt in the class of the patton tanks that pakistan was acquiring at that time. it is not drdro fault. btw in ithe heavy class it is as good as any in its class.
     
  17. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    156
    mattster,
    just to add to my previous post. a link worth taking a look-

    History of Arjun Tank Development | Frontier India Strategic and Defence - News, Analysis, Opinion - Aviation, Military, Commodity, Energy, Transportation, Conflict, Environment, Intelligence, Internal Security

    The Arjun Tank had its detractors in form of internal rivalry of the users, the Indian arms import lobby and media seeking sensationalism. Since India did not have any Tank design experience and many defence experts expressed doubts about the viability of the Arjun Tank project when it started and questioned the capability of the CVRDE to design and develop tanks. DRDO took these challenges and ever shifting qualitative requirements, in stride.
     
  18. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Navi-Mumbai
    you cannot compare the FGM-148 Javelin with NAG, both stand for a different catagory.

    the snap below clearly shows no smoke or flame thus making it difficult to identify the exact launch place..

    [​IMG]

    i was never in favour of the American weapons (since americans have always been funding & weaponising pakistan).
     
  19. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,316
    Likes Received:
    139
    Yes Atul, the projectile itself is smokeless, but from the picture you posted, there seems to quite a large back-blast that will make it dangerous to fire from enclosed spaces such as buildings or bunkers !!
     
  20. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,553
    Likes Received:
    6,565
    does anyone know if kornet was considered??
     
  21. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    28
    I think Army considered only IIR guided missiles and considering high cost of these IIR guidance, Army would would go for more wire-guided or laser guided missiles and less of these. So theres a chance for kornet but Army is still inclined to buy more Milan 2 missiles.
     

Share This Page