Indian Special Forces (archived)

[abingdonboy]

I am not ok with IAF allotting the task of base protection to Garuds.

IAF should raise another specialize force with the following responsibility:

# Guarding IAF Base.
# Guarding major Radar installation.
# Guarding missiles,warhead,other important assets.
# To act as QRT
Basically all the protection jobs of IAF should be transferred to this force.

Now coming to Garud,their main task should be the following:

#rescue of downed pilot,those people who need to be airlifted from behind enemy line or hostile area.
#Conduct recon/intel gathering for IAF behind enemy lines.
#Demolition of assets behind enemy lines or hostile area(radar,SAM etc)
#To call in airstrike and direct them through laser target designator.
#To support others special forces acting as force multiplier.
#Destroying downed aircraft ,drone of IAF ,to prevent sensitive technology from going in the hands of enemy.
#Gathering sensitive info from downed enemy plane,drones.
You can add more.

In addition to this Garuds need to be involved with the operations in kashmir for a year ,to gain combat experience.

Everything you have said the Garuds should be for is what they ARE for. They are NOT base protection units but at certain high risk and strategic bases they DO perform this role.

For all IAF bases the IAF police and DSC handle base protection.

 

[ghost]

Are you suggesting something like the RAF Regiment


View attachment 13289

Kind of.

Everything you have said the Garuds should be for is what they ARE for. They are NOT base protection units but at certain high risk and strategic bases they DO perform this role.

For all IAF bases the IAF police and DSC handle base protection.

They should not.This new force will be in addition to the IAF police, we can do away with DSC for IAF.This new force would have specialization in term of equipment,tactics,training.

 

[Bornubus]

Don't worry about Air bases security because since Pathankot attack or even earlier major Air force stations (or other sensitive installations ) houses a detachment of 51/ 52 SAG and most of these operators are also elite Para special Forces much experienced and better trained for Hostage situations or anti terror ops than some Garuds or Air force "Police"


SAG at a major ................. !

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Don't worry about Air bases security because since Pathankot attack or even earlier major Air force stations (or other sensitive installations ) houses a detachment of 51/ 52 SAG and most of these operators are also elite Para special Forces much experienced and better trained for Hostage situations or anti terror ops than some Garuds or Air force "Police"


SAG at a major ................. !

View attachment 13290

I think Garuds and Marcos should be attached to a RR Brigade specially Kilo Force where they will get good exposure working with Para SF operators who are the best of the best in India.

All the Garuds need is some jihadi blood on its weapons.Rest is fine.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its your part that is weak and knee-jerking, 7.62 vs 9mm senerio was used as a metaphore, Do you understand metaphores ?, Its the training on which equipment are based on and not training alone which may indicate only physical part of it ..

No one is selling you either, Go visit or talk to any instructors of counter Insurgency schools in India and Don`t quote me and speak about what you learn from discovery channel ..


Note from 2:30 to 2:41 mins, These are not SF but their SF coming to India with similar gear ..




Few Indians should learn to read and learn more about they speak than settling up for quick to conclusions, This seriously need to be stopped ..

Sorry bro but this is a weak argument. I am not talking about doctrine (7.62mm vs 9mm*) or training (obviously Indian units are as good as any) but purely EQUIPMENT.i
Objectively speaking much of the NSG's equipment is below the standards in the West. For example, their plate carriers are far too bulky and heavy, they have only got single tube NVGs whilst most Western units have twin tube NVGs and the top units now have quadtube NVGs, those ACH style helmets also look very uncomfortable and cumbersome, a high cut FAST helmet would allow greater movement whilst offering similar levels of protection. Furthermore, the very uniforms the NSG are wearing look less comfortable and less functional than the breathable combat unforms (designed to be worn under modern plate carriers) now adopted by most Western militaries.


I don't buy the "our people don't like their equipment much", no sensible warfighter would turn down lighter, less bulky, more useful and more comfortable equipment, superior situational awareness and greater lethality.



*although even the IA has changed their tune on this matter and have accepted the superiority of the 7.62 in CT/COIn/CQB


Indians should stop settling for mediocrity.

 

[Bornubus]

I think Garuds and Marcos should be attached to a RR Brigade specially Kilo Force where they will get good exposure working with Para SF operators who are the best of the best in India.

All the Garuds need is some jihadi blood on its weapons.Rest is fine.

I am thinking about worst situation than Pathankot say a Fidayeen attack on Nuclear facilities, Refineries or Nuclear power plant which are guarded by CISF.

If Jihaidis can easily entered a Air Base with layered security then they can also breach the above mentioned installations where they create an international incident, blackmail or attract international community on Kashmir.


What we need a through security review of each sensitive installation.

 

[ezsasa]

I am not ok with IAF allotting the task of base protection to Garuds.

IAF should raise another specialize force with the following responsibility:

# Guarding IAF Base.
# Guarding major Radar installation.
# Guarding missiles,warhead,other important assets.
# To act as QRT
Basically all the protection jobs of IAF should be transferred to this force.

Now coming to Garud,their main task should be the following:

#rescue of downed pilot,those people who need to be airlifted from behind enemy line or hostile area.
#Conduct recon/intel gathering for IAF behind enemy lines.
#Demolition of assets behind enemy lines or hostile area(radar,SAM etc)
#To call in airstrike and direct them through laser target designator.
#To support others special forces acting as force multiplier.
#Destroying downed aircraft ,drone of IAF ,to prevent sensitive technology from going in the hands of enemy.
#Gathering sensitive info from downed enemy plane,drones.
You can add more.

In addition to this Garuds need to be involved with the operations in kashmir for a year ,to gain combat experience.

Garuds are being doubled, if I remember correctly 1200 more .

I hope that counts..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Presently majority of bases are protected by IAF ground crews and not by SF ..

By increasing Garud number strength and adding of its own wing of vehicles can resolve this problem, Garuds have set of task limited to guarding and SAR, Rest is over PARA SF..

 

[abingdonboy]

Its your part that is weak and knee-jerking, 7.62 vs 9mm senerio was used as a metaphore, Do you understand metaphores ?, Its the training on which equipment are based on and not training alone which may indicate only physical part of it ..

No one is selling you either, Go visit or talk to any instructors of counter Insurgency schools in India and Don`t quote me and speak about what you learn from discovery channel ..


Note from 2:30 to 2:41 mins, These are not SF but their SF coming to India with similar gear ..




Few Indians should learn to read and learn more about they speak than settling up for quick to conclusions, This seriously need to be stopped ..

Total strawman argument, I am ONLY talking about EQUIPMENT but you keep bringing it back to TRAINING.

please stop trying to justify how far behind Indian units are in terms of EQUIPMENT standards, we all know this to be true, why ignore reality?

 

[abingdonboy]

I am thinking about worst situation than Pathankot say a Fidayeen attack on Nuclear facilities, Refineries or Nuclear power plant which are guarded by CISF.

If Jihaidis can easily entered a Air Base with layered security then they can also breach the above mentioned installations where they create an international incident, blackmail or attract international community on Kashmir.


What we need a through security review of each sensitive installation.

True, this really is a HUGE worry and one cannot rely on the military alone.

The CISF is unique in their mandate (infrastructure security force) and they should be dealt with as such by the MHA- they guard some of the most critical infrastructure in India (must total over a trillion dollars worth); all DAE, ISRO and port facilities, the entire Delhi metro, most AAI airports etc etc , they should be trained and equipped to standards comparable with military SF whilst all such locations should also feature the very latest perimiter security and acsess control measures. Money should not be a consideration, CISF should be given whatever they request on an emergency basis, these are strategic targets.

One thing we know, it is a matter of WHEN not IF the Pakis target such critical installations.

The CISF is one force that, if there are defencies in their training or equipment, there are strategic implications. Ideally, they should be under the NSA's direct control as I don't feel as though they are given sufficent attention under the MHA's control.

 

[abingdonboy]

Don't worry about Air bases security because since Pathankot attack or even earlier major Air force stations (or other sensitive installations ) houses a detachment of 51/ 52 SAG and most of these operators are also elite Para special Forces much experienced and better trained for Hostage situations or anti terror ops than some Garuds or Air force "Police"


SAG at a major ................. !

View attachment 13290

This is surely a short term/emergency measure and isn't sustainable. THe NSG is already very stretched because of the newly raised hubs, now having them deployed at airbases won't last long. They had to cancel their raising day celebrations in 2016 because they were spread very thin and on a high state of alert across the country, air base security is the responsibility of the MoD/armed forces.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You lack basic understanding and not any fault on my part ( Straw man argument ), Read again my post which stress on the relation of equipment with training, Even i posted a video for your understanding and for you to understand my argument as well..

Your argument here is simply, We should have & use everything that western forces have without getting into specifics or understand what they have and how it adapts into our environment and training, Armed forces are not fanboys ..

========

I am no where saying we should not adapt according to threads evolving around us, Including equipment, I have provided you with sources but yet you are repeating same slogan, If you have nothing to rebutt my post than best not rant, Take your time off for study and keep things objective here, next time ..

Total strawman argument, I am ONLY talking about EQUIPMENT but you keep bringing it back to TRAINING.

please stop trying to justify how far behind Indian units are in terms of EQUIPMENT standards, we all know this to be true, why ignore reality?

 

[Bornubus]

True, this really is a HUGE worry and one cannot rely on the military alone.

The CISF is unique in their mandate (infrastructure security force) and they should be dealt with as such by the MHA- they guard some of the most critical infrastructure in India (must total over a trillion dollars worth); all DAE, ISRO and port facilities, the entire Delhi metro, most AAI airports etc etc , they should be trained and equipped to standards comparable with military SF whilst all such locations should also feature the very latest perimiter security and acsess control measures. Money should not be a consideration, CISF should be given whatever they request on an emergency basis, these are strategic targets.

One thing we know, it is a matter of WHEN not IF the Pakis target such critical installations.

The CISF is one force that, if there are defencies in their training or equipment, there are strategic implications. Ideally, they should be under the NSA's direct control as I don't feel as though they are given sufficent attention under the MHA's control.

At present this is the equipment level of CISF. Although i miss INSAS

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I am thinking about worst situation than Pathankot say a Fidayeen attack on Nuclear facilities, Refineries or Nuclear power plant which are guarded by CISF.

If Jihaidis can easily entered a Air Base with layered security then they can also breach the above mentioned installations where they create an international incident, blackmail or attract international community on Kashmir.


What we need a through security review of each sensitive installation.

What you say is right but the Nuclear facilities,refineries or power plants are not near the Pak border hence to carry out such a attack in the heart of India is nearly impossible for the jihadist.

Such a thing would require large scale planning and manpower which cannot go unnoticed by our Intel agencies.

But if we have to consider that such a thing gets to happen we should consider that CISF is very well trained and in a better position to give response than IAF which lacked Garud operators and moreover the airbase in pathankot is near the highway so such a scrutiny of civilians is not possible as would be lets say near a nuclear plant.

Next step would be the involvement of the nearest NSG hub to take care of things if such a thing happens who are good in dealing with such a threat.

But i highly doubt it would happen and then reach to the level of calling NSG.

Remember a lot of mines in Chattisgarh and Jharkhand are attacked by 400-500 naxals and the NSG is never called..ITBP is a very capable force.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

PARA SF, Gud to see 3x magnifier ..

===============

They do, But numbers are less ..

At present this is the equipment level of CISF. Although i miss INSAS

 

[ghost]

What you say is right but the Nuclear facilities,refineries or power plants are not near the Pak border hence to carry out such a attack in the heart of India is nearly impossible for the jihadist.

Such a thing would require large scale planning and manpower which cannot go unnoticed by our Intel agencies.

But if we have to consider that such a thing gets to happen we should consider that CISF is very well trained and in a better position to give response than IAF which lacked Garud operators and moreover the airbase in pathankot is near the highway so such a scrutiny of civilians is not possible as would be lets say near a nuclear plant.

Next step would be the involvement of the nearest NSG hub to take care of things if such a thing happens who are good in dealing with such a threat.

But i highly doubt it would happen and then reach to the level of calling NSG.

Remember a lot of mines in Chattisgarh and Jharkhand are attacked by 400-500 naxals and the NSG is never called..ITBP is a very capable force.

Have you forgotten about the parliament attack or 26/11.

Refineries

Nuclear power plant

Isro centers

Most of them are located near coastlines,attack could be launched via boat from Srilanka,A cargo vessel acting as a mother ship.Plus Nepal,Bangladesh and Myanmar can also act as a launchpad or supply route. Don't fixate on Pakistan mainland alone.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Have you forgotten about the parliament attack or 26/11.

Refineries

Nuclear power plant

Isro centers

Most of them are located near coastlines,attack could be launched via boat from Srilanka,A cargo vessel acting as a mother ship.Plus Nepal,Bangladesh and Myanmar can also act as a launchpad or supply route. Don't fixate on Pakistan mainland alone.

What about the Parliament attack?The terrorists didnt succeed in anything.

After the 26/11 or Parliament attack a lot of things have changed.

Can you name of any attack after 26/11 which was 8 years ago.

And the places you have highlighted are protected from the air,sea and land and about which we should not or we cannot discuss here.

 

[ghost]

What about the Parliament attack?The terrorists didnt succeed in anything.

After the 26/11 or Parliament attack a lot of things have changed.

Can you name of any attack after 26/11 which was 8 years ago.

And the places you have highlighted are protected from the air,sea and land and about which we should not or we cannot discuss here.

I was pointing toward their reach.I agree our agencies have done a commendable job but that does not take away from the fact that they " can " launch an attack from other than the PAK mainland(Since you mentioned it).Its success or failure is a different ballgame altogether .

The crux of the matter was don't fixate on Pakistan mainland alone, attack could even come from elsewhere.That's it.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I was pointing toward their reach.I agree our agencies have done a commendable job but that does not take away from the fact that they " can " launch an attack from other than the PAK mainland(Since you mentioned it).Its success or failure is a different ballgame altogether .

The crux of the matter was don't fixate on Pakistan mainland alone, attack could even come from elsewhere.That's it.

True..Hence we are also active along Nepal and SL waters.

The Navy and the Coast Guard are patrolling more aggressively than before.

 

[tharun]

Have you forgotten about the parliament attack or 26/11.

Nuclear power plant

Isro centers

Most of them are located near coastlines,attack could be launched via boat from Srilanka,A cargo vessel acting as a mother ship.Plus Nepal,Bangladesh and Myanmar can also act as a launchpad or supply route. Don't fixate on Pakistan mainland alone.

I agree with you small incident on nuclear power plants will cause more damage in international community...just google a nuclear power plant with name in google it shows related searches on specific location