Indian Army Artillery

[AmoghaVarsha]

I have serious doubts on any rocket with 100km+ range.

 

[TheHurtLocker]

Guys, which system is this?

View attachment 19041

http://saab.com/land/weapon-systems/ground-based-air-defence-missile-systems/BAMSE/

 

[Chinmoy]

http://saab.com/land/weapon-systems/ground-based-air-defence-missile-systems/BAMSE/

Thats a Leyland platform system then?

 

[Chinmoy]

I have serious doubts on any rocket with 100km+ range.

You got doubt with SMERCH too?

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

You got doubt with SMERCH too?

Smerch is around 90km.Isnt it?

 

[Vijyes]

You got doubt with SMERCH too?

SMERCH has a range of 90km. 100+ rocket is possible but it will be hugely inaccurate. Imagine a circle of 1km radius - yeah that much inaccuracies. Guided rockets have minimum 1% inaccuracy and at 100km it is 1km. Some cheaper unguided rockets might have inaccuracy of 3%

 

[TheHurtLocker]

Thats a Leyland platform system then?

Yup.

Super Stallion 8by8
......................

 

[Chinmoy]

SMERCH has a range of 90km. 100+ rocket is possible but it will be hugely inaccurate. Imagine a circle of 1km radius - yeah that much inaccuracies. Guided rockets have minimum 1% inaccuracy and at 100km it is 1km. Some cheaper unguided rockets might have inaccuracy of 3%

This is same for any kind of unguided rocket artillery. Be it SMERCH or PINAKA or anything else. For this very purpose all are moving towards guided rockets and even guided shell in form of Excalibur.

 

[Chinmoy]

Smerch is around 90km.Isnt it?

SMERCH is 120 KM


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[AmoghaVarsha]

SMERCH is 120 KM


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What is the source of this?

30!!!!

 

[Vijyes]

SMERCH is 120 KM


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Actually SMERCH has multiple rockets. Which one they launch varies. I have heard of HE explosives rocket with 90km range. Can you give source to say 120km?

 

[Prashant12]

Prototype of ARDE-Kalyani ATAGS outside DIAT, Pune.

ARDE had teamed up with both TATA-SED and Kalyani Strategic Systems for their ATAGS 155mm L52 howitzer, both the firms have developed their own versions with their own subsystems like APU, autoloader etc but using the same ordinance which was designed by ARDE.

https://www.facebook.com/TejasMrca/

 

[Vijyes]

Prototype of ARDE-Kalyani ATAGS outside DIAT, Pune.

ARDE had teamed up with both TATA-SED and Kalyani Strategic Systems for their ATAGS 155mm L52 howitzer, both the firms have developed their own versions with their own subsystems like APU, autoloader etc but using the same ordinance which was designed by ARDE.1

https://www.facebook.com/TejasMrca/

Please enlighten me with the difference between ATAGS and Dhanush. Both are howitzers. Neither is self propelled. What is the reason for having two different types of howitzer? Isn't it better to have just 1 type of howitzer?

 

[Prashant12]

Please enlighten me with the difference between ATAGS and Dhanush. Both are howitzers. Neither is self propelled. What is the reason for having two different types of howitzer? Isn't it better to have just 1 type of howitzer?

Dhanush is 155x45 caliber and upgraded version of old bofors gun.

ATAGS is 155x52 Caliber and fully indigenous designed and developed.

 

[Vijyes]

Dhanush is 155x45 caliber and upgraded version of old bofors gun.

ATAGS is 155x52 Caliber and fully indigenous designed and developed.

How does it matter if it is developed indigenously or copied from others? Why not just upgrade dhanush to 155x52? Dhanush may be copied but still it is produced indigenously

 

[Adioz]

How does it matter if it is developed indigenously or copied from others? Why not just upgrade dhanush to 155x52? Dhanush may be copied but still it is produced indigenously

upgraded ≠ copied
Dhanush 52 cal is in the works, by OFB.
ATAGS has capabilities like Multiple Round Simultaneous Impact (MRSI) that Dhanush does not.
ATAGS can (I think it definitely will, in the near future) be mounted on an armoured chassis to produce an indigenous Self-Propelled Gun comparable to the best out there. The only problem is if the Army will accept a ATAGS on Arjun chassis. We already have a juggad working, so it should not be tough to convince IA.

Spoiler: Optional

ATAGS looks and sounds so much cooler than Dhanush

 

[Vijyes]

upgraded ≠ copied
Dhanush 52 cal is in the works, by OFB.
ATAGS has capabilities like Multiple Round Simultaneous Impact (MRSI) that Dhanush does not.
ATAGS can (I think it definitely will, in the near future) be mounted on an armoured chassis to produce an indigenous Self-Propelled Gun comparable to the best out there. The only problem is if the Army will accept a ATAGS on Arjun chassis. We already have a juggad working, so it should not be tough to convince IA.
View attachment 19073

Spoiler: Optional

ATAGS looks and sounds so much cooler than Dhanush

Arjun chassis? Arjun costs 50 crore rupees and a howitzer costs 4 crore rupees. Why would you want to waste such a costly tank on a cheap howitzer?

Why not mount it on a 4x4 jeep? Cheap and easy

 

[Adioz]

Arjun chassis? Arjun costs 50 crore rupees and a howitzer costs 4 crore rupees. Why would you want to waste such a costly tank on a cheap howitzer?

Why not mount it on a 4x4 jeep? Cheap and easy

The chassis would not cost as much as the tank IMHO. Also, if we compare the cost of K-9 Vajra, the Vajra deal is worth 4500 crores for just 100 guns.

We can't mount it on a jeep -_-
I am talking about a proper Armoured Self-Propelled Howitzer. We need a lot of these to provide artillery cover for our massive armoured fleet of tanks.

Although it would be great if ATAGS on a truck-chassis is accepted in place of current contestants in the 814 Mounted Gun Systems tender.It could be lighter than its competition, while providing commonality of spares with towed and self-propelled howitzer units, thus simplifying logistics. And it would be indigenous.

BTW, that juggad i mentioned has a cheaper gun mounted on Arjun chassis, so there is that.

 

[Vijyes]

The chassis would not cost as much as the tank IMHO. Also, if we compare the cost of K-9 Vajra, the Vajra deal is worth 4500 crores for just 100 guns.

We can't mount it on a jeep -_-
I am talking about a proper Armoured Self-Propelled Howitzer. We need a lot of these to provide artillery cover for our massive armoured fleet of tanks.

Although it would be great if ATAGS on a truck-chassis is accepted in place of current contestants in the 814 Mounted Gun Systems tender.It could be lighter than its competition, while providing commonality of spares with towed and self-propelled howitzer units, thus simplifying logistics. And it would be indigenous.

BTW, that juggad i mentioned has a cheaper gun mounted on Arjun chassis, so there is that.

K9 Vajra includes cost to build factory of production, ToT charges etc.

Also,the way I see it, howitzers are used from a distance of 25-40km and the armor is unnecessary. Howitzer don't fire in direct line of sight and can't be targeted by enemy directly either. I don't see the need for armour. Howitzer is not a tank and in case howitzers are within 5km of a tank, there is no way howitzers can win. Howitzers are not meant to aim accurate direct shots. Someone has to use anti tank missile to destroy the tank before it kills the howitzers.

In fact, towed howitzers are far better than SPG due to ease in towing, ability to be strapped to a truck for faster long distance mobility or donkeys to be pulled over a mountain. Artillery is mostly used in mountainous terrain for concealment and that makes SPG a liability. The APU in the howitzer itself is considered to be more than sufficient for cases of urgent mobility needs. Artillery regiment is stationed for weeks and months and fuel problems becomes a much bigger problem.

SPG is simply put - difficult to move, requires high logistics, difficult to reload, difficult to operate and can't enter mountainous areas.

I don't see much needs for SPG but I do agree that it is better to have some than not. But I definitely don't see any need to have armoured chassis for it.

 

[TheHurtLocker]

Bert from OD drives the Ashok Leyland FAT 6by6