Indian Army Armored Vehicles

[Bornubus]

Indian T-90s are now irrrelevant; the Uranium depleted Niazi rounds are capable of instantly destroying a fully armored T-90 with a single hit; unless India procures a trophy like system.

BS,the Israeli CL series round for T 90 Bhishma has same penetrating value as Nazia and considering the protection of T 90, Pak would need something better than Nazia or Shazia.

 

[garg_bharat]

Indian T-90s are now irrrelevant; the Uranium depleted Niazi rounds are capable of instantly destroying a fully armored T-90 with a single hit; unless India procures a trophy like system.

If you are relying on just your tank gun, you will see a lot of dead Pakistani tanks.

Study Ukraine war and see the performance of armour in this war.

 

[Bahamut]

10 km missile from an Tank ..can you name that

The Invar 9M119M and Invar 9M119M1 (Invar-M) are fired from a 125mm gun, like a shell, but operate like a guided missile. The 17.2 kg (37.8 pound) missile is 690mm (69.7 inches) long and has pop-out fins (with a 250mm/69 girth span) that aid in guidance (laser beam riding, controlled by the tank gunner). The missile has a max range of 5,000 meters at a speed of 350 meters per second (17.69 seconds max flight time). The Invar enables the tank to hit targets at twice the range of the 125mm shells. The tandem warhead can penetrate up to 900mm of armor (35.4 inches). Missile 9M119M "Invar" put into service in 1992, and the missile 9M119M1 "Invar-M" in the second half of the 1990s.
These are for 90s missile however the test are being carried out for newer missile for T 90 MS and ARMATA .At present only Israeli LAVAT has confirmed range for 10 km (Air launched version),of which India has acquired for LCH.

 

[garg_bharat]

BS,the Israeli CL series round for T 90 Bhishma has same penetrating value as Nazia and considering the protection of T 90, Pak would need something better than Nazia or Shazia.

Pakistan lives in past, it is unable to come to terms with present.

Don't worry about Niazi, we will see when the time comes.

 

[garg_bharat]

The Invar 9M119M and Invar 9M119M1 (Invar-M) are fired from a 125mm gun, like a shell, but operate like a guided missile. The 17.2 kg (37.8 pound) missile is 690mm (69.7 inches) long and has pop-out fins (with a 250mm/69 girth span) that aid in guidance (laser beam riding, controlled by the tank gunner). The missile has a max range of 5,000 meters at a speed of 350 meters per second (17.69 seconds max flight time). The Invar enables the tank to hit targets at twice the range of the 125mm shells. The tandem warhead can penetrate up to 900mm of armor (35.4 inches). Missile 9M119M "Invar" put into service in 1992, and the missile 9M119M1 "Invar-M" in the second half of the 1990s.
These are for 90s missile however the test are being carried out for newer missile for T 90 MS and ARMATA .At present only Israeli LAVAT has confirmed range for 10 km (Air launched version),of which India has acquired for LCH.

Realistic range is 4km for ATGM and 2km for tank shell.

 

[garg_bharat]

In Ukraine, the analysis of respectable analysts is "armour was a waste" on both sides. The conflict saw very high losses of armour.

The conventional tank battles of yore may soon become history as threats to tanks multiply.

 

[shade]

If DU's are so dangerous,whats the use of ERA armor?

 

[garg_bharat]

If DU's are so dangerous,whats the use of ERA armor?

Does not matter. Tank concentrations will face rocket fire this time. Armour piercing bomblets raining down from top are too much for any tank, and other armoured vehicles.

Tanks did not decide the fate of Syria conflict. The application of tank has to change.

 

[elite member]

T90MS provides more all round protection then t90S .Side protection ,top protection . Russians has been producing tanks for generations ,India just started so it would be obvious who can produce top end machine . Russians saw that Arjun excels in some fields in comparison to there t90S so they quickly came out with T90MS .You know the procedure here related to development of arjun tank being snail paced .

 

[elite member]

T90 MS give much bigger edge over Pakastani's AK or t80 thats the reason paki's are looking new tanks from Chines & Ukrainian arsenal

 

[shade]

Does not matter. Tank concentrations will face rocket fire this time. Armour piercing bomblets raining down from top are too much for any tank, and other armoured vehicles.

Tanks did not decide the fate of Syria conflict. The application of tank has to change.

You mean like TOW/Spike type missiles?


also dude you're not realising that syria conflict is not an actual war.Its more like the standard western proxy "war against terror".Tanks are still relevant in country-vs-country fights

 

[garg_bharat]

@shade, Syrian government used tanks against rebels who did not have much tanks, still ended up losing territory.

My point is that tanks are no more decisive. Yes anti-tank missile is one of potent threats. But the biggest threat to concentrations of vehicles is from MBRL.

Sneak attack of tanks will be very difficult because of strong aerial surveillance. Any concentration detected will be countered immediately by MBRL, and/or strike aircraft.

 

[garg_bharat]

Tanks are facing infantry weapons like unguided rocket, ATGM, mines, aviation bombs and rockets, MBRL. The freedom of action for tank has reduced greatly.

T-90 tanks are operating now in Syria though in very limited numbers. The major successes have come from application of airpower, along with MBRL on the ground. You can study the situation in Syria.

 

[shade]

Tanks are facing infantry weapons like unguided rocket, ATGM, mines, aviation bombs and rockets, MBRL. The freedom of action for tank has reduced greatly.

T-90 tanks are operating now in Syria though in very limited numbers. The major successes have come from application of airpower, along with MBRL on the ground. You can study the situation in Syria.

Exactly.This is not a true war between two countries.this is a civil/proxy war
This is unorthodox warfare with dirkas armed with ATGMs playing hide and seek among ruins with T-90s
In a country vs country war tanks are still relevant,but in some generic middle east dirka turkey shoot it is not.
If you want to hunt dirkas you use drones and not tanks,which is what muricans are saying

 

[garg_bharat]

@shade, please study ops in Ukraine, specially Feb 2015 ops.

Syria war may be a proxy war (calling it a civil war is a bit far-fetched), but combatants do have tanks and other armored vehicles.

I predict large scale Armour losses if Pakistan tries to invade, much greater than earlier wars.

Even a second or third generation ATGM can disable a tank, if not kill it.

Newer ATGMs will absolutely surely blow up Pakistani tanks. (Kornet, Spike etc.)

 

[SajeevJino]

The Invar 9M119M and Invar 9M119M1 (Invar-M) are fired from a 125mm gun, like a shell, but operate like a guided missile. The 17.2 kg (37.8 pound) missile is 690mm (69.7 inches) long and has pop-out fins (with a 250mm/69 girth span) that aid in guidance (laser beam riding, controlled by the tank gunner). The missile has a max range of 5,000 meters at a speed of 350 meters per second (17.69 seconds max flight time). The Invar enables the tank to hit targets at twice the range of the 125mm shells. The tandem warhead can penetrate up to 900mm of armor (35.4 inches). Missile 9M119M "Invar" put into service in 1992, and the missile 9M119M1 "Invar-M" in the second half of the 1990s.
These are for 90s missile however the test are being carried out for newer missile for T 90 MS and ARMATA .At present only Israeli LAVAT has confirmed range for 10 km (Air launched version),of which India has acquired for LCH.

I know that all the said above ..

what you said earlier was " T 90 can fire a missile whose range is 10 kilometers "

and now you're referring the Israeli LAHAT, an air launched missile's range,

we call those anti armour missiles, there is many out of them which can exceed 10 km's, go and find them

 

[SajeevJino]

.

Peoples who don't follow the Ukrainian issue and Syrian issue, saying go and figure out, It's have details

 

[The Last Stand]

US is the only nation who used the DU Shells and used it, India is not going to war with USA.

not only T 90, each and every Tanks are vulnerable to DU shells

Did not want to nitpick, but I need to put this out there.

Tungsten rods and DU rods have no measurable difference in penetration or the Germans/Russians (for an example) would not prefer Tungsten. And the only reason that DU rods are used is that they are cheaper (since DU is a byproduct of Nuclear industry and the Uranium extraction cost is borne by them ) and Tungsten is a rare metal after all.

An example would be the 3BM18 (DU) round that is absolutely useless against a modern tank's front (it was made in the 70s after all).

And then you have the DM53/63 which are Tungsten based and equivalent or superior in performance to EVERY other round except the M829A3. And even then the M829A3 is longer and is not flat out superior.

 

[SajeevJino]

@Keshav Murali thanks for the good updates

Is anyone still using the DU rods .. or they moved into Tungsten's

 

[The Last Stand]

@Keshav Murali thanks for the good updates

Is anyone still using the DU rods .. or they moved into Tungsten's

DU rods are still quite popular. AFAIK, Pakistan and USA are the primary users. The Russians are RUMOURED to be introducing a modern DU round similar to the 3BM42M (a modern tungsten round) and such claims are most likely true.

I believe China is still using Tungsten. I know most European countries prefer Tungsten as there is no kind of stigma attached to it.

After all the moolah "Gulf war syndrome" and other stuff that blamed DU for all sorts of health problems among veterans and civilians alike, the US did not even bat an eye. DU penetrators were the best and (due to M829A3) remain the best performing.

DU is mainly toxic NOT because of its radioactivity, but indeed its toxicity is only because it is a heavy metal. A few grams of DU is probably as radioactive as a banana. Which is not much. It is horrendously bad if you inhale it powdered or EAT it, but otherwise, no. People have understandably compared its toxicity to Lead. (We all know how bad Lead is)

It is dense, capable of withstanding heat and can withstand ERA/NERA and then composite armour without disintegrating, and it is one of a kind in this property. (As is Tungsten Carbide ) Very few materials can compete

No way it's going away completely when it is such an easy way to recycle nuclear waste and where it fits in PERFECTLY.

Important trivia note: The earliest APDS/APFSDS rounds and infact the earliest tank rounds designed and introduced to penetrate with high velocity were Tungsten rounds. (They tried steel and other normal metals for penetrators, but those were pretty useless)

So, you would say, people are MOVING BACK to tungsten instead