Indian Aircraft carriers are sitting ducks against most of today's weapons

badguy2000

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A dozen sanctions by the usa would make them handicapped.

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the "sanction" so called is usually just a "mutual trade block" between USA and the "sactioned" one .
so ,"sanction" in fact harms USA and the "sanctioned one" at the same time.

the only difference is that USA usually has a larger economy and can endure the harm much more easily.

However, CHina has a larger economy than USA,if USA "sanction" on China, the mutual trade block will harms USA more than CHina.
 

Ancient Indian

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the "sanction" so called is usually just a "mutual trade block" between USA and the "sactioned" one .
so ,"sanction" in fact harms USA and the "sanctioned one" at the same time.

the only difference is that USA usually has a larger economy and can endure the harm much more easily.

However, CHina has a larger economy than USA,if USA "sanction" on China, the mutual trade block will harms USA more than CHina.
I know the feelz and emotions mate. . . .

But can you deny this?



China advanced in lots of areas. No one denies it. But you are just over projecting it.

I never thought I will be defending that fat tub. But your insufferable arguments are too much to read.
 

apple

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You do realise you are having an argument with yourself, right Badguy?

You don't help your credibility by making stuff up.

China has more UAVs then anyone else............those UAV all are potential detectors

in fact,UAVs,subs, satelltes,AWAC and so on are all "eyes" detecting the trail of AC .

Unless USA were to destorys all those war asset in China in no time, USA's AC groups would be detected and easily locked by DF21.

however, if USA were to do so, that would be called "World war III".
Why is the US going to be fighting China? No one was mentioning that.

Are these UAV of yours long range, maritime reconnaissance models? You are not finding a CBG with little, remote controlled toy planes.

Doubt your UAV's would be able to "find" Taiwan, let alone warships somewhere in the Pacific.

Subs, sure they are definitely a threat. As far as I'm aware, your submarines are several generations behind all of your regional neighbours and our navies and airforces are dedicated to, and mostly likely very capable of, destroying them.

Satellite, yes.

AWAC's no, do some more research.

Long range maritime reconnaissance planes/ UAV's are what you want and is far as I'm aware you very much lacking in those capabilities.

But, that's not an issue as no one's going to war in the Pacific.

the "sanction" so called is usually just a "mutual trade block" between USA and the "sactioned" one .
so ,"sanction" in fact harms USA and the "sanctioned one" at the same time.

the only difference is that USA usually has a larger economy and can endure the harm much more easily.

However, CHina has a larger economy than USA,if USA "sanction" on China, the mutual trade block will harms USA more than CHina.
In 50 years time China will definitely have a larger economy than the US. 20 years? sure. 10, quite possibly. Now... not so much.

An arms race would be fantastic for the US economy.

But, once again that's not going to happen and no one was talking about that
 

badguy2000

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You do realise you are having an argument with yourself, right Badguy?

You don't help your credibility by making stuff up.



Why is the US going to be fighting China? No one was mentioning that.

Are these UAV of yours long range, maritime reconnaissance models? You are not finding a CBG with little, remote controlled toy planes.

Doubt your UAV's would be able to "find" Taiwan, let alone warships somewhere in the Pacific.

Subs, sure they are definitely a threat. As far as I'm aware, your submarines are several generations behind all of your regional neighbours and our navies and airforces are dedicated to, and mostly likely very capable of, destroying them.

Satellite, yes.

AWAC's no, do some more research.

Long range maritime reconnaissance planes/ UAV's are what you want and is far as I'm aware you very much lacking in those capabilities.

But, that's not an issue as no one's going to war in the Pacific.



In 50 years time China will definitely have a larger economy than the US. 20 years? sure. 10, quite possibly. Now... not so much.

An arms race would be fantastic for the US economy.

But, once again that's not going to happen and no one was talking about that

Chinese version of "global hawk" ,with a nickname of "Village hawk" , appeared several years ago....the pictures were also posted in some threads in the forum too.
you seem not to know about CHinese military news.

"village hawk" can cruise over 7000+ KM ,and seems to be designed as detectors over the pacific and Euro_asia land.
17157042.jpg
17157042.jpg
 

jaci_zenfone2

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Chinese version of "global hawk" ,with a nickname of "Village hawk" , appeared several years ago....the pictures were also posted in some threads in the forum too.
you seem not to know about CHinese military news.
View attachment 5711 View attachment 5711
China is way behind in military technology.They dont have engines to power their aircrafts.They Have J-10 which is lavi design bought from Israel.They want Israeli AWACS radar to buy but cannot because of usa pressure.Everything in their military is reverse engineered.

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badguy2000

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China is way behind in military technology.They dont have engines to power their aircrafts.They Have J-10 which is lavi design bought from Israel.They want Israeli AWACS radar to buy but cannot because of usa pressure.Everything in their military is reverse engineered.

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Haha, may you keep thinking so.......Btw,because china~made engine is less advanced than USA,"village hawk" can cruise only 7000+km while "global hawk" can cruise 10000+ KM. But 7000+ km is enough for "village hawk" to finish its job .
 
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badguy2000

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I am not thinking its the fact boy.

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Guy,USA's military~indutsry complex is too greedy,and its manufacturing base has been undermined for decades. Both causes that all USA~made weapons are overpriced and much more expensive than CHINA~made countparts. for example,as for price, one burk iii DDG=6 o52d DDG,1MQ1 drone = 30 YILONG, 1 f16=3 J10…………………………if USA can not change the trendency of its manufacturing collapsing and controll its militaryindustry complex,USA would surely lose arm race against CHINA.
 

Ancient Indian

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Guy,USA's military~indutsry complex is too greedy,and its manufacturing base has been undermined for decades. Both causes that all USA~made weapons are overpriced and much more expensive than CHINA~made countparts. for example,as for price, one burk iii DDG=6 o52d DDG,1MQ1 drone = 30 YILONG, 1 f16=3 J10…………………………if USA can not change the trendency of its manufacturing collapsing and controll its militaryindustry complex,USA would surely lose arm race against CHINA.


What the ---- you are talking about ?

Just because fat tub hires you doesn't make you factory owner.

Lets make analysis

Take a A4 size paper and draw a line by middle.

Draw visual for your best company on one part and US one on other.

You can see some picture there the difference b/w the two countries.
 
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badguy2000

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What the fukc you are talking about ?

Just because fat tub hires you doesn't make you factory owner.

Lets make analysis

Take a A4 size paper and draw a line by middle.

Draw visual for your best company on one part and US one on other.

You can see some picture there the difference b/w the two countries.
The picture shows soviet's shttle . It is the glory of soviet ,but sunked by the cut off of budgets. If USa can not save its economy, its fleet would sunk by cut off
 

brational

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Chinese version of "global hawk" ,with a nickname of "Village hawk" , appeared several years ago....the pictures were also posted in some threads in the forum too.
you seem not to know about CHinese military news.

"village hawk" can cruise over 7000+ KM ,and seems to be designed as detectors over the pacific and Euro_asia land.
View attachment 5711 View attachment 5711
Chinese Village Hawk will end up in a village field if it violates the airspace of another country. I They wont reach within a tracking/Targeting distance of a US CBG. US has many ally who allow Global hawk to traverse their airspace do not forget US military bases across the globe. So Chinese drones are good for operation within Chinese borders along with NoKo and Packland.
 

roma

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not only india AC,but also all AC are sitting ducks in wars against major powers such as USA,Russia and CHina.
they can be destroies by missles/UAVs and so on when they are still thousands of mile aways from the targets.
in a word,
Today, AC is a good tool to deal with police mission such as driving somalia piracy,bombing ISS or Taliba,but a good tool to deal with wars.
ABOUT DF-21 FROM WIKIPEDIA:-Military leaders in the U.S. Navy and Air Force, however, do not see it as a "game changer" to completely count carriers out. Firstly, there are questions on whether it has even entered operational service. Chinese publications said it was deployed in 2010 and U.S. officials reported it reached IOC that same year. Even so, being deployed does not mean it is combat-ready, and the Xinhua News Agency reported that the DF-21D was “still in the research stage” and not yet operational as of July 2011. Secondly, the missile may not be able to single-handedly destroy its target. The warhead is believed to be enough to inflict a "mission kill" to make a carrier unable to conduct flight operations, while other missiles would follow to actually destroy the ship. Thirdly, there is the problem of finding its target. The DF-21D has a range estimated between 1,035 to 1,726 mi (1,666 to 2,778 km), so a carrier battle group would need to be located through other means before launching. Over-the-horizon radars could detect ships, but their exact locations could be off by miles. Chinese recon satellites would be able to look for and locate a battle group. Recon aircraft and submarines could also look for them, but they are vulnerable to the carrier's defenses. Finally, the missile may have a hard time hitting its target. To hit ships moving at 55 km/h (30 kn; 34 mph), the DF-21D has radar and optical sensors for tracking. These are supposed to make it accurate, but the missile has not yet been tested against a moving target, let alone ones at sea against clutter and countermeasures. The "kill chain" of the missile requires processing and constantly updating data of a carrier's location, preparing the launch, programming information, and then firing it. How often this is trained is not known, and the U.S. military's AirSea Battle concept involves disrupting an enemy's kill chain.

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@jaci_zenfone2 ......sir , you are much more well-read and informed than myself on this topic , it is not my area .....came across this thread and it is interesting ...allow me to ask a layman's question

i have read your post and it is superb . now consider the following adaptations - improved radar detection systems - not an impossibility , im sure you'll agree ?
in that case , that with improved radar asd satellite detection systems consider the fallowing scenarios -

even given the carriers defence system , elaborate though it may be , isnt it probable , not talking possibility , but rather probability to be hit by a large number of hypersonic missiles launched simultaneously to overwhelm the ac's missile defence system which is still quite a way off from perfection and viability ?

the carrier by your estimation moves at about 50 kph or knots and i think even by yesterday's technology, that could easily be hit by the missile systems of even yesterday ...let alone today hypersonic missiles with guidance systems

so an ac is therefore , from the missile launchers point of view a static piece of land relative to the speed of the attacking missile and therefore a " sitting duck "

the defence systems albeit being very sophisticated will not be able to cope with a massive attack of equally sophisticated hypersonic missiles

an ac's role is therefore restricted to policing operations where there is no equally strong adversary eg clearing the seas of pirates as the other person suggested or even peacetime rescue operations where say a large number of persons need to be rescued from another region where there is no opposing force of equal technological level and a relatively slow -moving ( slow relative to the hypersonic speeds ) carrier group has sufficient armaments and technology to keep away any less professional intruders eg pirates and tinpot dictators forces....eg falklands war where the level of technologies comparative was greatly unbalanced and unequal , then an ac group was possible as the Argentinians did not have sophisticated hypersonic missile systems in those days .,

in an all-out war with an equally capable adversary however if attacked by hypersonic missiles and one or two of them get through the defenses the damage to the carrier and the resources on its platform will be horrific and enough to make the whole concept of an ac in war unviable from the cost and lost lives point of view

regards,
Ref;
@angeldude13 @anupamsurey @bose @brational @blueblood @Bangalorean @ersakthivel @Blackwater @bengalraider @cobra commando @DingDong @Hari Sud @Kunal Biswas @LETHALFORCE @mhk99 @Neil @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @Rowdy @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sorcerer @TejasMK3 @Yusuf @jackprince @Bangalorean @indiandefencefan @aliyah @hit&run @VIP @Razor @Blood+ @SANITY @Screambowl @Sylex21 @tsunami @Zebra
 
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jaci_zenfone2

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@jaci_zenfone2 ......sir , you are much more well-read and informed than myself on this topic , it is not my area .....came across this thread and it is interesting ...allow me to ask a layman's question

even given the carriers defence system , elaborate though it may be , isnt it probable , not talking possibility , but rather probability to be hit by a large number of hypersonic missiles launched simultaneously to overwhelm the ac's missile defence system which is still quite a way off from perfection and viability ?

the carrier by your estimation moves at about 50 kph or knots and i think even by yesterday's technology, that could easily be hit by the missile systems of even yesterday ...let alone today hypersonic missiles with guidance systems

so an ac is therefore , from the missile launchers point of view a static piece of land relative to the speed of the attacking missile and therefore a " sitting duck "

the defence systems albeit being very sophisticated will not be able to cope with a massive attack of equally sophisticated hypersonic missiles

an ac's role is therefore restricted to policing operations where there is no equally strong adversary eg clearing the seas of pirates as the other person suggested or even peacetime rescue operations where say a large number of persons need to be rescued from another region where there is no opposing force of equal technological level and a relatively slow -moving ( slow relative to the hypersonic speeds ) carrier group has sufficient armaments and technology to keep away any less professional intruders eg pirates and tinpot dictators forces.

in an all-out war with an equally capable adversary however if attacked by hypersonic missiles and one or two of them get through the defenses the damage to the carrier and the resources on its platform will be horrific and enough to make the whole concept of an ac in war unviable from the cost and lost lives point of view

regards,
Ref;
@angeldude13 @anupamsurey @bose @brational @blueblood @Bangalorean @ersakthivel @Blackwater @bengalraider @cobra commando @DingDong @Hari Sud @Kunal Biswas @LETHALFORCE @mhk99 @Neil @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @Rowdy @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sorcerer @TejasMK3 @Yusuf @jackprince @Bangalorean @indiandefencefan @aliyah @hit&run @VIP @Razor @Blood+ @SANITY @Screambowl @Sylex21 @tsunami @Zebra
I do not want to say that the missile will not be good what i am saying is it is not good today or the near future.Yeah I agree with you that a salvo of hypersonic missiles can probably get off the defense cover of CAG.But in order to do so they must identify it after that they must be sure that this is the target they want to hit then launch the missile and guide it toward their target.You see their is a massive kill chain to make it happen.And if you are full scale war than there will be actions from the other side also.Like destroying the launchers before they fire the missile,preemptive nuclear strike etc.
I agree with you that AC will not be useful against great powers like Russia,China,India,e.t.c but nor will any weapons of war because the only thing which will come in the picture is nuclear missiles.

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sabari

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The picture shows soviet's shttle . It is the glory of soviet ,but sunked by the cut off of budgets. If USa can not save its economy, its fleet would sunk by cut off
Sorry for posting outside thread
Yes it is certain .but country with enemy around it will not have fortune for long
Eg:USSR .you will spend much money for defense and will leave you're priority like USSR
And one more thing your biggest problem will be your government because you can't question your government . with out haveing right question you can redirector your government when you're government is making mistakes
 

Illusive

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Indian CBG won't be going anywhere near chinese mainland, AC are used to intimidate smaller nations. We'd need a lot of Barak 8 to counter the saturated missile attack. Which brings me to question, how many missiles can a satellite guide at a time.
 

badguy2000

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Sorry for posting outside thread
Yes it is certain .but country with enemy around it will not have fortune for long
Eg:USSR .you will spend much money for defense and will leave you're priority like USSR
And one more thing your biggest problem will be your government because you can't question your government . with out haveing right question you can redirector your government when you're government is making mistakes
Your government are always busy answering questions,so your government has spent much more time/energy anwsering questions than developing india.
 

hit&run

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I hate unscientific discussions. Many years ago I have given my reasons at DFI on why any AAC USA operates is invincible.

My reasons were based on how to calculate ammunition required that can hit a modern ACC of given size and displacement, to force it out of service temporary or permanent, sinking would require more amount than that.

The second part was about doctrine such massive platforms are operated upon. Unlike here when we are talking about video game scenarios of a naval war, in real war the ACC operations depended upon plenty of work done before they start launching fighter jet off their decks.

For that matter any massive flotillas operated by Naval forces are invisible. Any naval force who think AAC are not head ache but easy targets is fooling itself.
 

hit&run

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Adding late: Didn't see there have been many good post by other members on the very first page. Wonder how this thread got derailed after that.
 

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