India view on Xinjiang seperatism

Discussion in 'China' started by ArmchairGeneral, Nov 8, 2014.

  1. ArmchairGeneral

    ArmchairGeneral Regular Member

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    Should we support it? Should we not intervene? Should we aid China strategically, placing border settlement as condition?

    Better question should be, what is better for India - is a severely weakened and reduced chinese hegemony worth having yet another muslim neighbour?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
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  3. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Good and thought provoking question. After some reflection, I think it would be much better to compete with China by increasing our economic and industrial strength and amassing our military prowess.

    I think we will be in serious trouble with one more Islamic neighbour. It will become unfriendly and hostile in no time. Then we'll have two unfriendly neighbours to deal with - Xingiang (Turkestan) and China.
     
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  4. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    No, we shouldn't support Xingjiang separatism. Separatism in Xingjiang is fueled by an Islamic separate state ideology, which has the potential to turn radical. Groups from Pakistan have sent feelers to Xingjiang separatists. India's best bet is to have nothing to do with Xingjiang, let Paki-Islamic groups run their course in Xingjiang, and in doing that, let China feel the bite of having supported Pakistan, much in the same way Pakistan is feeling the bite of terrorist groups it supported.
     
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  5. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Without any doubt, the better thing for India is "weakening of Chinese hegemony"
    Creating a separte East Turkistan (or whatever it is called) will weaken China because
    1. Xinjiang is a treasure chest of natural resources.
    2. Xinjiang gives access and therefore increases influence of China in central asia.

    Despite rosy pictures I think there is greater chance of conflict rather than peace with China in the future.
    But of course, Xinjiang is firmly in China's grip, doesn't look like it is going anywhere.
     
  6. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    East Turkestan is of strategic interest to India. India can use it as a counter against China's involvment in Kashmir. BUt then again, India has her Panchsheel and does not meddle in the affairs of another country.
    Its another live wire of fanatism and it can bite anyone who feeds it (Eg:pakistan) and anyone who oppose it.(Eg:pakistan)

    Since its resource rich, East Turkestan is of much importance to many countries. War in this world has always started for a geographical areas resources. The game is on!!

    I think the best strategy is to use East Turkestan as the way the situation demands.
     
  7. Sylex21

    Sylex21 Regular Member

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    There are many complexities to this question, what should India do "officially/publicly" or "behind the scenes." Furthermore there is an issue regarding the chance of success vs the costs and risks.

    Undoubtedly a separate Xinjiang would be better for India, it would make China weaker by some little bit and it would provide another buffer state between the two nations. I don't think with its population of 21M it would be much of a threat to India and taking the case of Bangladesh for example, just because a nation is Muslim doesn't mean it will be a thorn in India's side.

    Because the chances of a Xinjiang separation as so small it is not in India's benefit to support a separatist movement there. The rewards are simply too small and the costs would be increased Chinese support for separatist movements like the Maoist insurgency in India. Unrest in Xinjiang is also a great tool in that it annoys China and angers it against Pakistan on occasion, better India keep its hands clean. India's best interests lie with remaining neutral in the coming USA vs China global struggle and minding its own business as it quietly builds up its own economy, infrastructure and resources. If any power pushes into South Asia or the Indian Ocean then India should fight them aggressively, but other than that it would just relax and grow and grow and grow in power and economy year after year.

    The USA will try and draw India into an anti-China alliance, Russia will try to draw India into a BRICS anti USA alliance, but India's best interests are to avoid both and gain benefits from both sides. India is in the geopolitical sweet spot as the current/soon to be 3rd most powerful nation, so lets reap the benefits. India has much work to do at home and should have very little interest in ruling the world........... for now.
     
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  8. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    What do you mean by "geopolitical sweet spot" ?
     
  9. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    India must stay clear of Xinxiang. The Turkic people who are opposing Chinese rule will never work with India.

    Let China handle this problem whatever way it deems fit.

    I would prefer even Tibetan issue to be left alone. Sympathy for Tibetans is OK but Tibetan Buddhism is a highly modified form which hardly resembles original Buddhism.

    China must be seen as a stabilizing force more than a destabilizing force. A Tibet in US pocket may be more dangerous that today's Tibet.
     
  10. Sylex21

    Sylex21 Regular Member

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    I mean that the USA is the current super power and China is the rising super power and they will be rivals. Even if China doesn't want to rival the USA, the USA will not be content being laid back with China. The only other nation in the world likely to be a super power in 20-30 years is India. Which ever side India is on is likely to win. The term "geopolitical sweet spot" implies that as the most powerful swing state, India is in a good position to reap benefits from both sides. Basically India is like the prettiest princess at the ball and all the guys want to date her now.
     
  11. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    There are similarities between Kashmir and Xinjiang movements.

    But China and India are not similar.

    India is a democracy and every 5 years India conducts elections and Kashmiris rule Kashmir. Not the case with China.

    Chinese oppressive policies are condemnable in Tibet and Xinjiang, CCP uses brute forces with out giving civil rights and freedom.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
  12. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    India is not in a position to do anything in Xinjiang or offer any support for separatist activity.

    India has enough problems keeping its own borders intact.
    What happens in Xinjiang has little to do with India. India is overrwhelmed with its own problems, and cannot afford to waste money or energy in adventuristic endeavors.

    India needs leaders who can put their nose to the grindstone and focus on the myriad issues. Hopefully Narendra Modi will be that leader.
    India is not even close to being a major Asian power.
    I chuckle when I hear people say that India will be a superpower in 20-30 years.

    India today cant even provide electricity to its citizens without having the power cut 2 or 3 times a day.
    There is more to being a superpower than just making some missiles and nukes.
    If India does not watch out - it could even get surpassed by countries like Indonesia if they get their act together.
    There is not a single Indian company that has a world-wide name recognition like Apple, Samsung, Mercedes, BMW, IBM, Intel, Sony, Huawei, etc.

    The problem with the "India story" for the last couple of decades is that its always been more hype than substance
     
  13. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Even if India can , it doesnot meddle in others affairs unless otherwise situation demands.
    Its Indias strong position that lead to the independance of Bangladesh. That was a time when India was not having a good economy or tech that could surpass west.

    What happens in East Turkestan has something to do with India cuz they are our neighbours. But we know unlike the west that War is not always the solution to deal with conflicts. There is something called diplomacy which costs really really less than a war. What India can afford and not afford is based on the cost-benefit-risk ratio as time dictates.

    Do read news paper before you come to conclusion about Asian powers. YOu are misinformed to a large extent. You do hear from people that India will be a super power in 20 to 30 years, that means there are solid facts behind them saying which you dont understand. Chuckle is your personal reaction that doesnt have anything to do with reality. So lets rest it.

    Dude, the place I live in dont have powercuts and its a state which relies mostly on hydro power.
    ARe you confusing INdia with Pakistan or are you trying hard to draw a parallel?

    Yes, Its called maturity of understanding, interpreting and reacting. Finding solutions by diplomacy rather than senseless war and killing . Thats why we are portrayed as one of the powerful countries.

    YOu have General knowledge issues.
    Read these so that next time when you talk to people about India, you dont embarass yourself and your reading, intepreting skills.

    Jamnagare refinery by Reliance India is the largest refinery in the world. USA shoud know it better cuz they fight over oil

    Jamnagar Refinery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    TATA which acquired Landrover and Jaguar
    Tata Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Hindalco, ONGC Videsh etc.etc.


    You are confusing western economy with India story
    Hype than substance is the western economy.
    India is a hype with substance.
     
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  14. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    I don't think the US considers China to be a major threat to the Western establishment. On the economic front sure China has made its presence felt but China isn't actually capable of projecting power and therefore is not a major threat to the West.
    As for India becoming a super power in 20-30: highly doubtful. First I would start with definition of super power. I think it could be defined as a power that is capable of subduing any other adversary it meets along the way AND capable of influencing the world for its own interests at the expense of the adversary's interest or anybody else's interest. No, during the cold war there was NO super power; in the 80s the US emerged as the super power. Second, geography puts India at a disadvantage as far as the superpower game is concerned. For India to be able to enforce its will, it needs foremost a very strong Navy, not the case now or for foreseeable future. Third, India needs a strong manufacturing base, not there as of now. Next, India has several internal fissures which can conveniently be exploited by external powers, thanks to the fact the we have adopted Western democracy. So on and so forth
    So as far as superpower stairway goes, India hasn't started climbing the stair yet. So difficult to say if and when it will become a superpower.
    Though I would agree that India has got vast potential. It needs to be channeled properly.

    Also in the future, if China is a power that is able to threaten and provide a viable opposition to India, automatically that means India is not a super power. There can't be 2 super powers. If India has to be "super power" then China can not be. In that case it may be a good for India, if Tibet and Xinjiang are not in Chinese grips and Han are confined to East Asia. But this seems far from possible as the Chinese have these two regions: the treasure chest of China and the water tower of Asia firmly in their grip. The Chinese must be thanking their lucky stars that the dalai lama and his groups went to India rather than some more powerful country.
    It will be interesting to see how India reacts when China starts asserting more power on waters of rivers originating in Tibet. These rivers will have lowers output in the near future thanks to receding glaciers.
    I think you are exaggerating, a bit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
  15. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Misinformed ?......who is misinformed. I go back to Kerala every year. I have friends in the US from virtually every state in India, except the North-East and every one of them confirms that there are power cuts in virtually every state.

    You really haven't been around the block, if you think Reliance and Tata are global brands. And buying a few English or American companies does not make any company a global brand.

    My bigger point is that there isn't a single company in India that was organically grew from its Indian roots to be a major global player.
    Maybe you'll find a few Mahindra tractors in some US farms, but nothing that suggests that Indian companies can dominate in the future.
    At least the Chinese have Huawei, Xiaomi and a bunch of up and coming players.

    You can't be a superpower or a regional powerhouse without building the GDP and a powerful economy which includes hitech and exports.
     
  16. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    No shit. There's equally more to being a superpower than having a debt-based, money-juggling economy, that survives on printing USD out of thin air, and then using that money to play street-thug on a global scale.
     
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  17. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Powercuts are not regular feature, pacing it by the intensity of your statement.

    When everyone is talking about the buying power of Indian companies. thats something we gotta take into consideraion. There is nothing wrong in buying if we can. Acquiring a global brand is also a good thing. Organically grow or inorganically grow, does that make a difference once its contributing its power to the exchequer and towards the growth of the nation which is a biggest picture than the bigger picture!!!!

    NOT a single company in India? Wow..thats an understatement.
    There are many 'service oriented' companies in INdia which has tapped into the booming service economy and made its presence felt over the world as a global brand in that respective sector. The companies which you talked about are 'brands' as in every day life from tampons to TV which is the game of Chinese manufacturing.

    India for its sustainable growth has to look beyond 'commercial' in a commercial way. Rather than taking more 'commercial' variant of manufacturing which China has, India has to look more towards 'intellectually sophisticated technology' industries. This is where her skill is.

    Thats exactly is the make in India campaign going to do. It will be boosting the economy further.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I wonder if you are aware of the cost effectiveness of Pakistan's '1000 cuts' theory against India.

    if you understood that you would not have commented the way your did.

    Even so, China would weather all that but at a cost and would have the same problems that you ascribe to India.

    It would also save a great amount of money to do the things that you want India should first do.
     
  19. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Till WW2 two major powers fought with each other........Britain&France

    After WW2 another two major powers fought with each other......... USA&USSR

    Ind&China destined to fight with each other for power,market,resources (in covert manner,direct war btw huge/nuclear nations is not possible).

    Now USA power started declining slowly,means Indo-china rise&fight also starting slowly.

    now ur Q about help ughurs or not,take BD as a ex: we helped BD rebels/muslims are they became our enemy or friends.So ughurs also will become our friends.:thumb:
     
  20. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ask them to send a request, India will accept :lol:
     
  21. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    why many Indians think India don't have will/capacity to do covert war.In 70's itself we nurtured world best COVERT FORCES it almost defeated their army MUKTI BAHANI &LTTE........... so don't think we are PIECEFUL'S as projected.

    p.s In 70's we are poor&miserable condition,now compare 70's India with 2014 India.So better u go and ask CANDY CRUSH request :lol: :lol:
     

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