India, Vietnam Relations

lambu

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India eyes South China Sea pearl

India has taken the first tentative steps towards establishing a "sustainable maritime presence" in the South China Sea, not far from the Chinese mainland. With Indo-Vietnamese naval cooperation set to strengthen in the days to come, Vietnam has allowed Indian naval warships to drop anchor at its Nha Trang port in southern Vietnam during naval goodwill visits, well-placed government sources have confirmed.

Sources said the Indian Navy was perhaps the only foreign Navy in recent times to have been given this privilege by the Vietnamese at a port other than Halong Bay, near Hanoi. "The move will give India the key to a sustainable presence in the South China Sea," said a government source. This will enable India to play a bigger role in the strategic Southeast Asian region which overlooks key shipping lines.

India, too, is set to offer naval facilities for training and capacity-building to Vietnam. The Commander-in-Chief of the Vietnam People's Navy, Vice-Admiral and deputy minister Nguyen Van Hien, is scheduled to visit New Delhi, Mumbai and Visakhapatnam during his visit starting Monday to witness Indian naval capabilities. "India could also offer its experience in ship-building to Vietnam, which currently has a small Navy," said a government source.

China will no doubt be closely monitoring the Indo-Vietnamese naval cooperation. Both India and Vietnam are wary of growing Chinese military capabilities. Both countries have been victims of Chinese military aggression in the past. Vietnam, which fought a border war with China in 1979, has also been at the receiving end of Chinese naval military domination in the region. China and Vietnam have maritime disputes over the oil-rich Spratly and Paracel islands in the South China Sea.

But, predictably, Indian government sources caution that the Indo-Vietnamese defence relationship should not be seen to be aimed at China. "Vietnam is opening itself to the world. It is not looking to challenge China but merely seeking to enhance its own economic and defence capabilities in view of the ground realities," pointed out a government source. Vietnam is part of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations which is seeking to engage China on a host of issues.

to continue reading follow link ........

India eyes South China Sea pearl | idrw.org
 

Adux

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You wudn't be here the first place if that was true.
No Indo-China war is going to be more than 2 weeks -8 weeks (ample time for war stocks to last). By the end of that time, only cockroaches will remain in China. No Nation can ever rebuild a warship, or any gamechangers in such a short and fluid time.
 

kickok1975

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No Indo-China war is going to be more than 2 weeks -8 weeks (ample time for war stocks to last). By the end of that time, only cockroaches will remain in China. No Nation can ever rebuild a warship, or any gamechangers in such a short and fluid time.
That must be the most stupid war ever happen in human history.
 
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Arunpillai

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Godless-Kafir


i dont know if this can answer ur question....why we being friends with pakistan.

i said this in another thread too and i think i may just repeat it which is really from a chinese point of view.


1 india fought pakistan before the PRC was established...so at first PRC didnt mean to do anything to either india or pakistan.

2 PLA took back tibet becoz of a bunch of reasons (those can be discussed in other threads)...and my point is........no matter what....its a problem between china and tibet (as a region or nation)...u indians have no rights to interfer(u have rights to say indeed)...coz it doesnt belong to u.......if 1 day many chinese saying free assam or free nagaland........dont u think its weird??? then why u supported tibet independence?? and there have been tons of peoples seeking their independency in many nations.......why wouldnt u support them???

3 so when u decided to support tibet independence (its easy to anex zangnan if zangnan belongs to a weak nation called tibet rather than a much bigger and stronger PRC rite??)and more importantly FORWARd NORTH.......u d better prepare for the consequences........

4 1 of the coesquences is china pakistan being friends...a result of what india did to pakistan and china.
man, you're paranoid.. Firstly let me clear something for you.. India has never supported the Tibetan independance movement by words or by actions.. Ever.. Of course we gave refuge to tibetans who fled to india following persecution by chinese.. But that is our national policy.. We also give refuge to bangladeshis, nepalis, srilankans, pakis, afghans... Also the condition for giving refuge for Tibetans was that they should not engage in political protests against chinese.. yes there's a sympathetic public perception about tibetans. So what, our is a democracy.. So what have Chinese got to protest about?
India never has coveted or desired Tibet or any of its territories..
 

Adux

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We have idiots who are sympathetic to Mao and Stalin
 

Arunpillai

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@huaxia rox..
Also you are claiming Zang nan or Arunachal pradesh as yours coz once upon a time it was under Tibetan administration and was handed over to British India by Tibetans.. Since now you are occupying Tibet you are claiming dis territory.. Dats a far fetched argument, if u ask me..
 

civfanatic

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You think India-China at war is going to be restrained and controlable,
Realistically speaking, the chances of some BNP wacko leading Bangladesh to invade Assam (and losing) are greater than India and China going to war.
 

debasree

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we should built a naval listenig and recon post there and can deeploy 2-3,newly aquired p-81 poseidon there.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Tshering22

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Vietnam is very much interested in brahmos. I dont know what indian govt is doing to clear the ways for brahmos to reach nam, no matter if we have to do that on soft loans.

Việt Nam mong muốn Brahmos của Ấn Độ
As per what BrahMos claims, the problem is that they have not been able to come out of India's demands itself. Apparently our forces are so much in love with the missile that they keep asking for minor upgrades and keep buying more and more. At least that's what Dr. Sivanthanu Pillai said discreetly. I am all for selling Vietnamese the BrahMos. Even if we have to tone down our profit marginally as a first international sale. Vietnam fits the bill perfectly: a friend of Russia, a potential partner for India and fed up of the Chinese. Don't think anyone else can qualify more than them for BrahMos at the moment.
 
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There were also rumors that Vietnam had requested Prithvi in the past from India, no conformation or details have ever been released.
 

Tshering22

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There were also rumors that Vietnam had requested Prithvi in the past from India, no conformation or details have ever been released.
I am sure there must be something that would have taken place, that we will never get to know. If they had requested for the missile, I think it would have been more prudent to offer them Dhanush and their carrier warships as that would make their Navy much more lethal in South China Sea.
 

sandeepdg

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There were also rumors that Vietnam had requested Prithvi in the past from India, no conformation or details have ever been released.
Really, that's the kind of news that should have been heard and has the potential to create a shit storm ! Wonder, anybody else heard about this..
 
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Really, that's the kind of news that should have been heard and has the potential to create a shit storm ! Wonder, anybody else heard about this..
India finally wakes up to Vietnam - Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion

Read the beginning of the 3rd paragraph from FI

http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=55789

Moreover, the Integrated Defence Staff, which favours it over the Brahmos even in naval missions, can pass on advice for using the Prithvi, other than in land-based operations, in the sea-surface sanitising mode the Vietnamese envisage. Further, the transaction for the sub-300 km range Prithvi is permissible under the Missile Technology Control Regime.
 
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old article but still relevant about 10 year long strategic relations

India-Vietnam strategic patrnership


India-Vietnam Strategic Partnership: The Convergence of Interests


"Vietnam treats India with strategic importance" is what President Tran Duch Luang expressed to India's Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh during the latters visit to Vietnam in mid-November 2000 1 in connection with the 10th Indo-Vietnam Joint Commission meeting. Available reports on statements by Indian leaders do not transparently reflect similar sentiments. India still shies away from coming out unequivocally on expressing its strategic preferences for countries which are vital or whose strategic partnerships are desirable for furthering India's national security interests. Along with Myanmar, in South East Asia, India needs to build up a relationship of strategic partnership with Vietnam.

India and Vietnam enjoy a convergence of strategic interests which could provide the basis for building and reinforcing strategic cooperation between the two countries. India in the past, stood by Vietnam in opposing US military intervention at the cost of embittering Indo-US relations.2 India stood up in the UN against USA and China on the Cambodia issue and its good relations with the pro-Vietnamese Hang Samarin government generated antagonisms in the US Congress and US establishment .3 With such a backdrop there should be no impediments for India to build up a strategic partnership with Vietnam in all fields- political, diplomatic, military and economic.

India has long under nourished its bilateral relationships with countries which demanded strategic cooperation due to our non-aligned fixations which predicated that India should never mention or define strategic relationships, defence cooperation or military to military contacts with any country.

However, the turn of the millennium presents a complex strategic environment in Asia-Pacific and impinging on India's security and its national security interests. In India's search for strategic bilateral cooperation with important regional countries, Vietnam should be the logical choice. India and Vietnam share a wide area of convergence of interests on which a solid strategic partnership can be built up.

Strategic Calculus of India and Vietnam - The China factor

The China factor weighs heavily and figures prominently in the respective strategic calculus of both India and Vietnam. India's Defence Minister, Mr. George Fernandes was accurate when in 1998 he described China as a "major threat" to India. Prime Minister Vajpayee had also in 1998 mentioned the Chinese threat as an impulse for India's nuclear weaponisation .4 Recently a Vietnamese Foreign Ministry official had remarked "we don't trust China";5 in other words, Vietnam is suspicious of China and fearful of China's intentions.

Both India and Vietnam have very good reasons for China's figuring in their respective threat perception as this record indicates:

* Both India and Vietnam share long land borders with China. Vietnam also shares sea borders.

* China has disputed its existing borders with both India and Vietnam.

* China launched punitive military attacks on both India (1962) and Vietnam(1979). India fared badly because Nehru never suspected that China would attack India. Vietnam's record was remarkable.

* China again attacked Vietnamese garrisons in the Spratly Islands group and forcibly occupied six of them. However, once again the Vietnamese Navy met Chinese aggression squarely.

* China's recent expressions professing friendship with both India and Vietnam respectively do not get matched up with genuine efforts to settle border issues.

* China's perceived strategic concerns regarding India and Vietnam forced it to create strategic pressure points to destabilise these two countries. In the case of India, China created the Pakistani threat (nuclear and missile threat) and in the case of Vietnam, it posed proxy military challenges in Kampuchea, besides direct military force on both land and sea borders.

India and Vietnam therefore have a natural strategic congruence as to how to restrain China from aggressive actions in future, while keeping it engaged diplomatically.

India's strategic and national security interests demand that Vietnam emerges as a strong state. Relatively, India is better placed to contribute towards this aim in all fields - defence cooperation, political cooperation, economic and technical assistance and technology transfers.

India-Vietnam: Defence Cooperation and Assistance

Defence cooperation between India and Vietnam has taken place over the years in a limited manner with exchange of some military delegations and visits of naval ships. Indian military delegations visited Vietnam after the Sino-Vietnam War of 1979 to study how Vietnamese border troops defeated attacks by China's regular army formations. As part of former Prime Minister Narasimha Rao's 'Look East' policy, an agreement on Defence Cooperation was concluded in 1994, but not followed up vigorously.

The imperatives of defence cooperation with Vietnam seem to have been realised belatedly leading to the visit to Vietnam by India's Defence Minister, George Fernandes in March 2000 and signing of a fresh protocol on defence cooperation which incorporates some of the following major points:

* Institutionalised framework for regular discussions between the Indian and Vietnamese Defence Ministers.

* Such discussions to incorporate sharing of strategic threat perceptions and intelligence.

* Naval exercises between Indian Navy and Vietnam Navy and also those of coast guards of both countries.

* Pilot training of Vietnam Air Force by the Indian Air Force

These are welcome steps towards achievement of what should be India's strategic aim to assist in building Vietnam's armed forces to be militarily strong and self reliant. To this end India could extend defence cooperation to Vietnam in the following fields:

* Vietnam's Air Force and Navy have Russian origin hardware which is operationally limited due to lack of spares and advanced repairs and maintenance. India is well placed to assist.

* India has a sizeable defence production infrastructure. India should provide such indigenously produced equipment at 'friendship prices' or even as aid.

* India should assist in development of indigenous defence production infrastructure in Vietnam.

* India should upgrade Vietnam's Air Force and Navy military hardware by rendering all technical assistance.

* Military training facilities in India both combat and technical training should be opened in a big way for training of Vietnamese Armed Forces personnel.

* India should also consider providing missile assembly technology of non-nuclear missiles to Vietnam.

Hackles should not be raised on the last point. If China could with impunity arm Pakistan with nuclear weapons and IRBMs, China should logically have no moral right to raise a hue and cry on this subject. At some stage India will have to learn and develop strategic pressure points against China, to counter what China has done all along so far on India's periphery.

India and Vietnam - Political and Diplomatic Cooperation

In terms of political and diplomatic cooperation between India and Vietnam, the convergence of interests, once again tend to get focused on China. To pre-empt China apologists from disputing the above, attention needs to be drawn to the following worthwhile analysis of China:

"Clearly it is both foolish and dangerous to depreciate China or to doubt its long term potential. Yet that very potential could well be threatening for other nations including US Pacific allies like Japan, Korea and Indonesia, not to mention countries like India and Vietnam, even should China not so intend. The Middle Kingdom's expansive territorial claims and pronounced self-absorption virtually guarantee that foreign anxieties will persist." 6

The same author further amplifies the reasons for apprehensions about China, thus:

"A major element in foreign apprehension about China is the pervasive uncertainty about its long term geostrategic intentions. Some of this is rooted in the unpredictability of Chinese politics, which have been extraordinarily volatile across the past half century and may well continue to be so. But such uncertainty is greatly intensified by the chronic lack of transparency in Chinese defence planning, weapons acquisitions and even defense budgeting..." 7

Major effort will be required on the part of both India and Vietnam to pursue politically and diplomatically the following initiatives:

* India's permanent membership of the UN Security Council. Vietnam is on record supporting India's candidature.

* Vietnam's role in ASEAN and its forums should be strengthened in all ways possible where India can assist.

* India with its expanding economy and its linkages with the Asia-Pacific region made to emerge as an influential member of APEC. Vietnam's support would be helpful.

* India and Vietnam should jointly work towards making the ARF (ASEAN Regional Forum) an effective mechanism in the Asia Pacific for confidence building measures (CBMs) preventive diplomacy (PD) and conflict resolution. Besides keeping China engaged in multi-lateral forums, one could optimistically hope that China would submit itself and respect ARF formulations. So far it has opposed ARF efforts on the South China sea disputes.

On the last mentioned initiative both India and Vietnam can expect wide support from a number of Asia-Pacific nations harbouring similar apprehensions about China.

India and Vietnam- Cooperation in the economic spheres

Similar to the wide convergence of interests existing in the defence sphere the economic sphere too holds promising prospects for an India-Vietnam partnership. Vietnam after more than half-a-century of war-ravaged economy has embarked on a major economic re-construction programme. However, in terms of absorption of technologies for its industrial development, it does not require hitech inputs readily available from countries like Japan. It needs intermediate levels of technology. India is well placed to fill this slot and also assist in the development of industrial and economic infrastructure. Vietnam is not some backward nation that requires development from scratch, as some selected economic indicators below would indicate: 8

Current Account balance $ 0.7 bn
GDP Growth 4%
Per Capita GDP $ 1,775
Per Capita GNP $ 375
Reserves $ 2.1 bn
Exports last 12 months $ 10 bn
Population 82 mn
Population Growth 2.3%
Literacy 91.9%
India must encourage and induce its private sector to invest in the following fields in Vietnam:

* Automobiles
* Two Wheelers
* Telecommunications
* Information Technology
* Agro-tech Industries and fertiliser production
* Pharmaceuticals
* Electrical consumer appliances
* Railway construction and supply of engines/coaches
* Civil aviation

Vietnam is strongly placed to help India in the energy sector both in terms of oil supplies and further joint prospecting for oil and gas. India has adequate experience in oil and gas prospecting, especially in offshore deposits. In fact India could go in for special concessions in this field as it has reached with Iraq.

The recently launched Mekong Ganga Cooperation ( Nov 10, 2000 at Vientiane, capital of Laos) comprising India, Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam aims to focus on cooperation in tourism, culture, education and communication. The scope could be expanded to trade and industry and economic cooperation.

Vietnam's importance in South East Asia has suddenly increased strategically as well as economically. Vietnam seems well poised to emerge as the new economic hub of Asia Pacific luring Japanese and other investors. India should exploit its traditional relations with Vietnam to enlarge its economic ties. A militarily strong Vietnam, necessarily has to be an economically strong nation. India is well placed to assist Vietnam in both fields. Both nations could work out mutually beneficial incentives to expand trade and commerce and economic cooperation.

Conclusion

India and Vietnam are both geostrategically important countries, vital to all major nations with a stake in the freedom of high seas. Both countries share disputed borders with China and both have been subjected to military aggression by China. A highly proud and nationalistic country with rugged determination and plucky courage, Vietnam enjoys the unique distinction in the second half of the twentieth century of having inflicted military defeats on three major powers i.e. France, USA and China.

Current indicators in the Asia Pacific security environment point towards China's emergence as a major strategic destabilising entity, bent on challenging United States predominance in the region. It also claims South and South East Asia as its natural and historical area of influence. China in its pursuance of its power aspirations stands guilty of strategically destabilising India's and Vietnam's neighbourhood i.e. Pakistan and Cambodia earlier. The changing international security environment also presents an ironic picture where Russia which earlier stood by India and Vietnam in terms of strategic needs, today is engaged in building up the military might and force projection capabilities of China- a threat perception common to both India and Vietnam.

In such a strategic environment, while making all efforts towards keeping China peacefully engaged in the Asia-Pacific, India and Vietnam should work towards building a bilateral strategic partnership based on the convergence of interests analysed above. Such a strategic partnership is in India's national security interests and India should not fight shy of proclaiming it as such. Vietnam has already declared that it views its relations with India with "Strategic importance" . It is time India reciprocates the sentiment and no better occasion merits this than the forthcoming visit of Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee to Vietnam in January 2001.
 

Ray

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India is not a nation to encourage nukes to proliferate.
 

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