India ranks below China, Pak in global hunger index

[pmaitra]

I'm sure you know that the most important aspect of being a "military superpower" is power projection. Even though Russia still has (IMO) the 2nd best military in the world, and is more than capable of trampling any enemy on the Eurasian landmass (they put a good show in Georgia, as a reminder of this fact) , its projection power capability is woefully subpar.

Compared to US, yes it is subpar; but it is still better than any other country in the world. Russia is still more powerful than China.

If there is a crisis in some distant Third World country, and American interests are involved, you can expect a U.S. carrier group to show up and scare everyone away.

They can't scare anybody away. Really? Even North Korea knows the US can't do anything to them. US won't touch Venezuela only because of Russia. If they could, then Pakistan's greatest achievement would not have to take the world's strongest military on a wild-goose chase while extracting money from them while at the same time exporting terrorists.

Russia has nothing to match the power projection capability of the U.S.

True.

 

[civfanatic]

Compared to US, yes it is subpar; but it is still better than any other country in the world. Russia is still more powerful than China.

Yes, but that doesn't make them a military superpower. The present-day Russian Navy and Bomber Fleet puts the Soviet Navy and Soviet Long-Range Aviation of the 70s and 80s to shame.

They can't scare anybody away. Really? Even North Korea knows the US can't do anything to them. US won't touch Venezuela only because of Russia. If they could, then Pakistan's greatest achievement would not have to take the world's strongest military on a wild-goose chase while extracting money from them while at the same time exporting terrorists.

A very important part of American geopolitical strategy is to threaten to use force, rather than actually use it (i.e., carrying a big stick). America assumes that most countries will concede to their demands rather than face the overwhelming firepower of the U.S. Armed Forces. Usually, this assumption is correct, but not always.

Nations that can blackmail back with nukes, etc. (like North Korea) or nations with international support (like India in 1971) are immune to this.

 

[pmaitra]

Different criterions of "developed countries" are fit for different of ages.
It is not strange at all that old-time "developed countries" fall to "developing countries".
For example, India was a "developed country" in Mid-age too, but it fell into developing country after industrializaiton revolution.

Argentina was once global second richest country when WW II ended in 1945,but now it also has fallen to be a developing country.
Soviet once was a developed country,but Russia is not.


How can you expain that Russia's life exectacy is even shorter than Soivet's? Did't Russian drink Alcohol too?
more reasonable explaination is that Russia health sytem is poorer than Soviet's.

If you get an opportunity, see the Soviet movie Kidnapping, Caucasian Style (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping,_Caucasian_Style) and you'll realise that that is the country you are calling 'developed' and calling present day Russia as 'not-developed'. Some of your misconceptions will be cleared up.

Well, I have already given my explanation and no, I never claimed Russian health systems are better than Soviets. Read my post carefully again.

So let me ask you straight and to the point: Do you believe Pakistan's health systems are better than Russia's?

 

[pmaitra]

Yes, but that doesn't make them a military superpower. The present-day Russian Navy and Bomber Fleet puts the Soviet Navy and Soviet Long-Range Aviation of the 70s and 80s to shame.



A very important part of American geopolitical strategy is to threaten to use force, rather than actually use it (i.e., carrying a big stick). America assumes that most countries will concede to their demands rather than face the overwhelming firepower of the U.S. Armed Forces. Usually, this assumption is correct, but not always.

Nations that can blackmail back with nukes, etc. (like North Korea) or nations with international support (like India in 1971) are immune to this.

Yes, that is very true about what you said. Also, any power, no matter how strong, can only go to a certain extent. Russia, although not as powerful as the USSR, is still the second strongest force in the world. Take away NATO and the West will look like a bunch of wimps. Russia has already created schisms within NATO.

 

[badguy2000]

IMHO, Russia is not as powerful or influential as the USSR was, but it still is a superpower, if you only talk about power, regardless of being quite behind the West in development. Although not as big a threat to the US as the USSR was, it can still beat up US allies pretty badly if it wants (example Mikhail Saakashvili) with the US not being able to do anything whatsoever.

a country which GDP is only 1/10 of Yankees can not be label as "superpower".

Russias' defence industry also is rapidly declining...it was hardly imagined one decade ago that Russia would have to import warship from France.
Russia's complaint about CHina's "copy" in fact reflects how much Russia has not confidence to keep its military tech edge on CHina,when its defence industry chains has got eroded sooo much.

Probably. We don't know the reality in China, however, given the economic figures, GDP, GNP, PCI and PPP, China sure fits the bill for the Second World.

you still doesn't get mentality of CCP.. It has nothing to do with GDP GNP or PPP that China insists that china be a "3rd world country" . it is purely because China wants to keep a low profile and take to the woods before China is powerful enough to outthrow the hegemony of west countries.

in fact ,if there were a category of "5rd world , China would not hesitate to label itself as a "5rd world country".

 

[civfanatic]

Just to provide some more insight on the difference between Russian and Soviet military power and capabilities, let us compare the Russian inventory of 2010 with the Soviet inventory of 1987. Keep in mind the relative difference in technology.

Russian Air Force in 2010
445 Su-27
12 Su-30
12 Su-35BM
540 MiG-29
386 MiG-31
16 Su-34
321 Su-24
245 Su-25
89 Tu-22M
64 Tu-95
24 Tu-160
29 Beriev A-50 AWACS

Soviet Air Forces in 1987
Air Defense Forces:
210 Su-27
850 MiG-23
350 MiG-25
360 MiG-31
500 Su-15
90 Yak-28
50 Tu-128
7 Tu-126 AWACS

Frontal Aviation:
90 Su-27
540 MiG-29
600 MiG-23
185 MiG-21
200 MiG-31
40 MiG-25
630 Su-24
535 Su-17
500 MiG-27
340 Su-25

Recon/ECM/AEW:
65 MiG-21
220 MiG-25
65 Su-24
300 Yak-28
115 Tu-16
40 Beriev A-50 AWACS

Long-Range Aviation:
160 Tu-95
15 Tu-160
30 M-4
30 Tu-22M
120 Tu-22
80 Tu-16


As you can see, the Soviets were a military superpower, while Russia today is not...

 

[Yatharth Singh]

Hey hey wait a minute. Is somebody`s out here who doubts that Russia isnt a superpower then read this-
Russia has a nuclear shield which I dont think many of the the nations have,
Russia has the largest number of nukes and also sufficient number of ICBM`s for them,
Russia is the 2nd nation after USA to produce a fifth Generation aircraft. (therefore no technological doubts)
Russia sells weapons to most or I must say entire third world nations.
Russia navy and army are no doubt considered as one of the best in the world.

This was just a demo. If someone want the full version then contact me here only(JK).
i.e. if someone still disagree then please let me know. I will show him that what Russia has which his country might not.

 

[pmaitra]

a country which GDP is only 1/10 of Yankees can not be label as "superpower".

Russias' defence industry also is rapidly declining...it was hardly imagined one decade ago that Russia would have to import warship from France.
Russia's complaint about CHina's "copy" in fact reflects how much Russia has not confidence to keep its military tech edge on CHina,when its defence industry chains has got eroded sooo much.

Again, you are basing your argument on the fact that Russia has decided to import technology for only one class of ships, i.e. the Mistral Class from France. Why not talk about the US having to rely on Russian Soyuz spacecraft for space travel? I am sure, according to this very logic of yours, USA is not a superpower, because it has to hitch a ride on a space capsule mainly designed in the 1960s by the Soviets and later modified by the Russians?

All right, I am going to ask you again, with the hope that without beating around the bush, you'll answer to the point. If you do not, I will not ask you again. I'll also make the font larger so that it is difficult to miss.

So let me ask you straight and to the point: Do you believe Pakistan's health systems are better than Russia's?

 

[pmaitra]

Hey hey wait a minute. Is somebody`s out here who doubts that Russia isnt a superpower then read this-
Russia has a nuclear shield which I dont think many of the the nations have,
Russia has the largest number of nukes and also sufficient number of ICBM`s for them,
Russia is the 2nd nation after USA to produce a fifth Generation aircraft. (therefore no technological doubts)
Russia sells weapons to most or I must say entire third world nations.
Russia navy and army are no doubt considered as one of the best in the world.

This was just a demo. If someone want the full version then contact me here only(JK).
i.e. if someone still disagree then please let me know. I will show him that what Russia has which his country might not.

Well said. I think facts need to be placed right in front so that we can do an objective evaluation. A lot of it is because of the hyperbolic media journalism that we are seeing these days. It's just like seeing the same old 'Breaking News' every evening on the TV.

If and when you get time, please do list out all the things about Russia that you intended to mention in your earlier post.

Once again, many thanks!

 

[SHASH2K2]

1. Russia is not a developed country. at least, nobody in CHina acknowledges Russia is a developed country,althought Soviet once was a developed country.

2.Russia's health system is indeed a piece of $hit. Russia's life expectancy is less than 60...which is shorter than many developing countries

Bad Girl I completely agree with you. Russia is a third world country .
They cannot manufacture a decent fighter plane leave aside a plane they cannot build an Engine on itself. They need to import all their planes and engine from their almighty neighbor. They regularly have to steal latest technology from their superpower neighbor to keep their industries alive . What else I can say about their health system Its really in deep shit all I can say. This couls have been in shit pond had they imported medical technology it from their Great neighbor.


Whole world knows the truth about who steals from whom so stop acting like ostrich and accept the facts.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Originally Posted by badguy2000
a country which GDP is only 1/10 of Yankees can not be label as "superpower".

Russias' defence industry also is rapidly declining...it was hardly imagined one decade ago that Russia would have to import warship from France.
Russia's complaint about CHina's "copy" in fact reflects how much Russia has not confidence to keep its military tech edge on CHina,when its defence industry chains has got eroded sooo much.

Yet a country which has 1/3rd GDP can be termed as superpower. Even though they have nothing they can claim as their invention. Everything is a cheap copy of that so called underdeveloped 3rd world country of your neighborhood .

 

[badguy2000]

Yet a country which has 1/3rd GDP can be termed as superpower. Even though they have nothing they can claim as their invention. Everything is a cheap copy of that so called underdeveloped 3rd world country of your neighborhood .

1.neither Chinese nor CHinese government ever say "china is a superpower" or "China is shining". Instead, Chinese Government always insist that China be a 3rd world country.

In fact, CHina would still insist that CHina be a 3rd world country ,even when China's GDP were 3 times more than USA.
2. Russia has gone down to be a "3rd world country" for a old-time superpower.

3. Russia almost stopped replacing its old stock of weapons after Soviet collapsed,due to the lack of fund(once) or tech barrier( which happened to warship manufacturing obviously now due to the eroded tech base)

4. Russia is going down rapidly while CHina is going up rapidly....

 

[SHASH2K2]

Russia almost stopped replacing its old stock of weapons after Soviet collapsed,due to the lack of fund(once) or tech barrier( which happened to warship manufacturing obviously now due to the eroded tech base)

There is a saying in our side that even if an elephant dies he is worth millions. Russian weapons industry has collapsed but they are still a lot better than Chinese . DO still go to Russians to buy Jets or if not then copy Russian Jets. Remember export of RD 92 engines for Pak FA. China cannot make a decent engine for their planes and claim they their weapon industry is better than Russians. Only country other than USA which is near to making 5th Generation planes is Russia and Not China. Their nukes and missile tech is still superior to China and you guys will be more than Glad to steal or copy them . You have Hq9 system as Air defence but still buy S300 for AIr defence. SO all I would say than SON may come ahead of Father but its a long long way to go.

Russia is going down rapidly while CHina is going up rapidly....

regarding Economy of Russia They are going ahead and its growing Positively and they have technology to turn around it. At least they will not steal technology to improve industries.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

US Is still number one..china and russia are more or less equal now..but china will overtake russia in the next decade overtakeing US will take them three decades only if they can sustain the current growth. India will remain at 4th point But with a huge gap when compared to the three super powers.

 

[badguy2000]

US Is still number one..china and russia are more or less equal now..but china will overtake russia in the next decade overtakeing US will take them three decades only if they can sustain the current growth. India will remain at 4th point But with a huge gap when compared to the three super powers.

1. USA indeed is still NO. but the end of Yankee's dominance over global economy would collapse much ealier than you think.
I think that in one decade, that is to say in 2020 or so, CHinese economy is to surpass Yankee's .
in 3 years, CHina's nominal GDP would rise from 1/3 of Yankees to 2/3 of Yankee's,due to both high growth and RMB's appreciation.
such rapid change of global economy balance will happen before long...let's wait and see.

2. Russia has little chance to reemerge,mainly due to its small population.
the decline of Russia will go on . In one decade, Russia would become another "canada" or another "brazil".

3. CHina would not show hands to Yankee's,untile CHina is firmly sure that CHina can take Yankee's hegemony easily.
Before that , China would always take to the woods as a global major power ,by insisting that "China be a third world country"!

 

[LETHALFORCE]

1. USA indeed is still NO. but the end of Yankee's dominance over global economy would collapse much ealier than you think.
I think that in one decade, that is to say in 2020 or so, CHinese economy is to surpass Yankee's .
in 3 years, CHina's nominal GDP would rise from 1/3 of Yankees to 2/3 of Yankee's,due to both high growth and RMB's appreciation.
such rapid change of global economy balance will happen before long...let's wait and see.
2. Russia has little chance to reemerge,mainly due to its small population.
the decline of Russia will go on . In one decade, Russia would become another "canada" or another "brazil".

Chinese economy is 5 times smaller than US economy and with US starting a trade war with China the chinese economy will not pass USA by the year 3000, USA will start deflating this Chinese economy and a long collapse like Japan is coming to China soon.

 

[badguy2000]

Chinese economy is 5 times smaller than US economy and with US starting a trade war with China the chinese economy will not pass USA by the year 3000, USA will start deflating this Chinese economy and a long collapse like Japan is coming to China soon.

I think it is just a waste of time to persuade china-haters like you. let's just wait and see.

One thing I am sure is that my salary is 10 times more than mine 10 years ago. In 3 years my salary will double.

In 1 or 2 years, I am sure that I will buy my first car. Just 10 years ago , I dared not imagine commons like me would afford buying a car worth 20K USD,because my yearly income 10 years ago was only 1.5K USD.

In 10 years ago, I also dare not imagine that I can live in a house as modern as Japanese's or Hongkongese's showed in Japanese TV or Hongkongese flim.

face the reality,guy! we CHinese are catching up with you west guys and will eventually be richer than you guys.
In the past 30 years, CHina has be be winner and you west guys have been loser!

In the coming 10 years, you west guys will keep being losers!

BTW,loser don't deserve any respect.. Loser's words don't have credit either!

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I will be awaiting for the chinese economy to be cut in half in the coming years this will happen a lot sooner; when the world realizes Chinese have faked their growth numbers for the last 20 years.

 

[badguy2000]

I will be awaiting for the chinese economy to be cut in half in the coming years this will happen a lot sooner; when the world realizes Chinese have faked their growth numbers for the last 20 years.

what you will meet most possibly is the collapse of US dollars.

In fact, the two pillars of US dollar is not the wealth creativity of Yankee's, but CHinese's manufacturing and MD's oil.

Once people stopped trading Chinese manufacturing and MD oil with dollars, US dollars would collapse like paper walls.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

How will US dollar collapse when every Centrabank is buying it? If this were to happen China's US debt holdings would be worth zero, and chinese economy will be back in the stone age.