India faces Afghan test, as ally calls for military aid

Discussion in 'Afghanistan' started by Daredevil, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    New Delhi fears significant military assistance to Afghan forces could create tensions with Pakistan

    Afghan military commanders and intelligence officials have begun urging India to provide direct military assistance to the country’s fledgling armed forces following a series of skirmishes with Pakistani troops this autumn, highly placed government sources in Kabul told The Hindu.

    Key equipment sought by the Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF), the sources said, include medium trucks that can carry 2.5-7 tonne cargos, bridge-laying equipment and engineering facilities. India was also asked to consider the possibility of supplying light mountain artillery, along with ordnance, and to help Afghanistan build close air-support capabilities for its troops in preparation of drastic scaling-down of western forces in 2014.

    The requests followed fierce fighting along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border that raged from July to September, in which both sides used artillery — and comes amidst fears that Afghanistan may be unable to hold together in the face of renewed jihadist assault in the run-up to the country’s Presidential election.

    India’s Afghan test

    For India, the Afghan military demands present a strategic dilemma, as well as the first real test of the Strategic Partnership Agreement signed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Hamid Karzai on October 4. The accord, Afghanistan’s first with any country, opened up the prospect of significantly expanding military cooperation far beyond training the country’s military and police personnel, India’s main contribution so far.

    “India agrees to assist as mutually determined,” clause 5 of the section on political and security cooperation reads, “in the training, equipping and capacity building programmes for the ANSF.”

    Now estimated at 3,52,000-strong, the ANSF cost over $4 billion to support—far beyond the government’s resources. Participants at the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation’s summit in Chicago this May agreed to continue to foot the Bill until 2017, but also sought “gradual, managed force reduction” to about 2,28,500. Kabul fears the social consequences of putting over 1,00,000 trained soldiers out of jobs, and worries that recession in the West could lead to a further scaling back of support.

    Nor is there clarity on the precise nature of how many troops the United States will maintain after 2014, though its government has said some numbers of personnel will remain. Vanda Felbab-Brown, an expert at the Washington, DC-based Brookings Institution, recently warned that “if the definition of [the post-2014] United States mission then is only very narrow counter-terrorism for its own contingents and on-base counter-insurgency training for the ANSF, the United States may be severely constrained in providing crucial and necessary resources to the ANSF.”

    Strategic dilemma

    India, diplomatic sources in New Delhi said, however fears being sucked into a military relationship with Afghanistan that could enrage Pakistan — a country which has long worried that its northern neighbour could be used as a base for aggression by its historic eastern adversary. Islamabad has, in the past, alleged that India’s intelligence services are using Afghanistan to back secessionists in Balochistan, as well as jihadists fighting the Pakistani state.

    “Frankly,” said Sushant Sareen, an expert at the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses in New Delhi, “I think its worth New Delhi’s while to take the risk. Pakistan says it is happy for Afghans to decide their own future. It is time to put that claim to the test.”

    President Karzai’s administration is engaged in a last-ditch effort to secure Pakistani support for the 2014 transition, by seeking its support for negotiations with Taliban leaders based in Peshawar and Quetta. Mr. Karzai has even offered Pakistan a strategic partnership agreement, like that signed with India. However, Afghan government sources said, the military leadership believe Indian assistance will be critical if these efforts fail — and snowballing violence within the country leads to future skirmishes along their border with Pakistan.

    Fighting along the Durand Line — the 2,640 km frontier drawn by British administrator Mortimer Durand of British India and Afghan Amir Abdur Rahman Khan in 1893, but never ratified by Kabul — has erupted periodically since 9/11.

    In the summer of 2003, the Afghan government claimed Pakistan established bases up to 600 metres inside its territory, along the Yaqubi Kandao pass. Even though the skirmishes that broke out were local, they set a pattern. In 2007, clashes broke out again when the Pakistan army sought to erect fences inside Afghan territory in the Angoor Adda area, along the border with South Waziristan. Like this autumn, both sides exchanged artillery fire.

    The latest clashes, Afghan army sources told The Hindu, were sparked off by a succession of attacks by jihadist groups operating in the Kunar area, including the Lashkar-e-Taiba, which are alleged to have the backing of local Pakistan army units.

    India faces Afghan test, as ally calls for military aid - The Hindu
     
  2.  
  3. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    What the heck?. When are we going to stop pandering to Pakistani fears?. We need to supply all offensive weapons that we can. But main focus should be to make ANSF to self-sustain and be a credible force against Taliban.
     
    mki and Known_Unknown like this.
  4. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,498
    Likes Received:
    4,680
    Pakistan has beaten your psych and diplomatic daring to pulp. This what they were trying to achieve since they started attacking you in your cities.

    All the ambiguity, lies, and claims (military) they make is to run the asymmetrical warfare they have been raising against you with impunity.
     
  5. Maharana

    Maharana Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    166
    Location:
    New Delhi
    The Govt. should do what is in the best interest of the people of India, not worrying about Pakistan or anyone else. Even after the backing of an entire nation that constitutes almost 17% of the earth's existing population, it's high time that we take some serious 'out of the box' measures. Enough of being a soft state, we are not happy with that tag. This country is the country of young confident assertive people, represent it that way instead of putting a lid on the pressure and making it boil from within.

    This Govt. is an epic failure in representing us. Yes we are tolerant, yes we value human life but we are not soft, we are not weak, so please don't make us look like that.

    Assisting the Afghan National Army would be a terrific idea. If we do not want resurgence of Pro-Pakistan Taliban, if we want to safeguard our billions of infrastructure investment and want to see a democratic, peaceful, prospering Afghanistan in excellent terms with us, we should help build up their military capabilities. If that enrages Pakistan so be it.

    It's in India's National Interest.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,287
    Location:
    BANGalore
    On the contrary, Afghanistan provides a golden opportunity to make our own borders safe. 350,000 troops on Pakistsns western borders presents a major threat. India should use its good offi we to secure mines with resources and in return offer to support the $4billion a year cost to maintain these troops. Inda should provide artillery like our own Pinaka, prodlvide tanks like Arjun to support the Afghan people. Pakistan has attacked India when it wanted to. It never waited for any invitation. India really does not have to bother about te sensitivities of Pakistan. We have our own nation to secure. India will have to walk the talk in Astan. Arm them for our own good.
     
  7. aerokan

    aerokan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    535
    I thought we already have significant tensions with Pakistan since 1947.. don't we???

    Reasoning with sensitivities of Pakistan is like trying to stab youself to make a evil kid stop crying. Once we stop stabbing ourself, the kid will start crying again.

    It's a very good opportunity to test Arjun tanks in Afghanistan. Having forces on both sides of the enemy will restrain them from any misadventures. Isn't that what all the peaceniks want?? :thumb:
     
    raja696 likes this.
  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,663
    Likes Received:
    17,162
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Why isn't India giving military aid to Afghanistan already? Yes, true, India does not have direct land access to Afghanistan, but India can, if it wants, purchase lots of military hardware, for cheap, from Russia and other former Soviet states, and have them delivered via Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. India should be on it right away. India should also start delivering Indian made weapons, if possible.
     
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,287
    Location:
    BANGalore
    :facepalm: we have the opportunity to supply our own made weapons. They want arty. Give them Pinaka. Give them Arjuns. Give them INSAS. Give them Dhruvs.
     
    arnabmit likes this.
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,663
    Likes Received:
    17,162
    Location:
    EST, USA
    How will you supply such heavy equipment? I hear that the Iran route is not accessible anymore.
     
  11. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Earth
    ^^Make a formal request to Pakistan for transit rights in exchange for not launching nuclear war against them during their election period. :pound:
     
  12. Libertarian

    Libertarian Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    40
    ^^Wouldn't the Arjun end-up in Pakistani and then eventually, Chinese hands? (Similar to the crashed Tomahawk CM)
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,287
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Iran route is not closed as far as I remember. We still have good relations and Iran has a vested interest to see the Talibs out of Astan
     
  14. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Earth
    What, does it matter if the designs of a tank which was rejected by the IA, and which only bought 128 (out of a total tank force of ~2,500) of them, ends up in Paki hands?
     
  15. datguy79

    datguy79 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    937
    Location:
    Canada
    tata 155mm howitzer please:drool:
     
    AVERAGE INDIAN, arnabmit and gokussj9 like this.
  16. Libertarian

    Libertarian Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    40
    It matters because the Arjun is better than any tank that Pakistan or China are fielding.
     
  17. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,548
    Why don't they make the same requests to SCO who's more than willing to help for its own sake with an overland access?

    Afghan can always cry on Chini's shoulder.

    Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
     
  18. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,287
    Location:
    BANGalore
    That they dont says a lot isnt it.
     
  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,287
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Not fully developed and in production. India itself awaits a 155mm howitzer
     
  20. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Earth
    @Libertarian I seriously doubt that. The Paki-Chini Al-Khalid is based on the Ukranian T80-UD design, which is itself a very capable tank. I'm not an expert, but from what I've read in posts made by @Damian @militarysta @Akim and others, the Arjun is not quite battle ready.

    I wonder though even if it is not good enough for IA needs, it is still better than anything the Afghan forces have (do they have any tanks at all?), so selling them truckloads of Arjuns at discounted prices might move the defence relationship forward while at the same time earning forex for India to develop Arjun Mark II and III.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  21. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,287
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Afghans need aid. They are not going to buy. India can at best recover by getting some mines in Astan.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    Known_Unknown likes this.

Share This Page