India and Pakistan, clever steps at border

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by kickok1975, May 19, 2012.

  1. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    With little fanfare, two old rivals are mending trade relations. They must do more
    May 12th 2012 , from the print edition of Economist

    A STUPENDOUS display of military nonsense erupts each sunset at the Wagah crossing between India and Pakistan. Thousands cheer rival guards in silly hats who strut with mock aggression, lower their flags and slam shut the border gates. The display is choreographed fun. But underlying it are deeper mutual antagonisms generated by a history of border wars, terrorism and the original sin in 1947 of partition itself. Nowhere are the costs of these antagonisms so apparent as in the pathetic levels of trade between these two populous nations.
    For years direct exchange was all but blocked. Apart from barter by Kashmiris and the odd trainload of cargo at Wagah, goods went via third-country ports, notably Dubai and Colombo. Once-thriving border towns, such as Amritsar, slid into relative gloom. Pakistan’s cocooned economy grew weak and uncompetitive. Even after Wagah’s road crossing reopened in 2005, when bilateral trade was little more than $600m, commerce has been stymied. Barmy visa rules keep away traders. Delays at dilapidated customs posts ruin perishable goods. Last year trade between India and Pakistan was just $2.6 billion. Unofficial trade boosts the figure, but it is still pathetic for countries with populations of 1.2 billion and 180m respectively, and combined economies of over $2 trillion. By way of comparison, India’s trade with China, another ancestral enemy, may soon pass $100 billion.
    The same economic pragmatism is beginning to appear between India and Pakistan. Both governments are daring to break with history. It is a difficult and brave thing to do, especially in Pakistan, where civilian politicians normally kowtow to the army. Yet they seem to have persuaded the soldiers that not all exchange with the arch-enemy is disastrous; and that more trade will mean greater prosperity, which will in the long run reduce the dependency on the American handouts that Pakistan’s armed forces loathe (see article).
    And so a thaw is taking place. Last year Pakistan said it would match India’s old offer of most-favoured-nation trading status. To little fanfare, Pakistan is now scrapping restrictions: adopting a “negative list” of specified banned goods, rather than, as previously, stipulating only what may be imported. Meanwhile, India is allowing more to arrive by road. Imports of Pakistani cement are now soaring. A smart new customs post at Wagah is speeding the flow of goods. Other crossings may open. Pakistanis may now invest directly in India’s economy. Indian petrol may next be sent westwards, with electricity to follow. This month home ministries of both countries will probably scrap the worst visa rules (see article).
    Dreaming of silk
    It all adds up to a profound and welcome shift. Businesspeople are excited, as delegations start making mutual visits. Yet the progress is vulnerable to many things, not least to another strike in India by Pakistan-based terrorists.
    While the going is good, both governments must be much more ambitious. Pakistan needs to focus on improving customs posts and quickly scrapping the remaining negative list on trade. But India, which stands to gain disproportionately from burgeoning trade, must make most of the running. Stable relations with Pakistan are a prize in itself for the Indians. Immense hurdles remain, not least the quest for peace in Afghanistan; but the longer-term dream is of land trade through Pakistan to Central Asia, with its oil and gas, and even to European markets. Given all that, India should dare to be generous, removing non-tariff barriers, cutting duties on Pakistani imports and making it easier to invest in India. Clever steps at the border today will bring great rewards in future.
     
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  3. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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  4. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Crap. Complete crap. TAPI gas pipeline is the worst idea possible. Why the hell should we put ourselves at the mercy of that Jihadi nation? Can they be trusted? Has history not shown us that they are worse than snakes?

    Even if you decide to stupidly trust the Pakis, how will you guarantee security of the pipeline, when the Pakis are not able to protect their internal pipelines from being exploded at regular intervals by Baloch freedom fighters and other assorted terrorists?

    What's the guarantee that some brainwashed wannabe Ghazi will not blow himself up on the pipeline in the Khidmat of Jeehad? Heh - if he succeeds, he gets virgins, and if he fails he gets rose petals showered on him by the Paki public.

    Do we really want pipelines through this shithole of a country? We need to kick these fools in the government who are proposing this nonsense pipeline.
     
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  5. Aayush

    Aayush Regular Member

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    I really don't think Pakistan can be called a rival anymore.We are way ahead in everything from them,so they should be called an enemy instead of rival
    :p
     
  6. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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  7. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    A nuisance, rather.
     
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  8. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Even having a nuisance in your backyard is not a good thing so india has to one way or the other make peace with pakistan even if it dont want to.
     
  9. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    If the agreement entails payment for gas delivered at our borders, we dont have a problem. What happens in Pakistan is pakistan's problem.
     
  10. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Which is ok as long as we don't get dependent on the gas. And that is what is going to happen.

    Remember what happened to West Europe when Russia cut off gas supplies accusing Ukraine of stealing gas?

    That is what will happen to us each time one of their nutcase Jihadis decides to get his 72s along the pipeline. Or if the arsewipes in the puki army decide to act smart when hostilities break out next.

    Hell, even in the best of conditions I wouldn't put it past them to steal gas.

    Thanks, but no thanks. No gas through Porkistan.
     
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Nothing clever.

    Set of idiots!
     
  12. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    That's what Pakistanis like to think, but they have no idea how much their significance has diminished, and will continue to diminish, with the growth of the Indian economy.

    It is China which India needs to fix its border problems with and make peace. Pakistan is a nobody.
     
  13. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    That is a situation that must be considered.

    This can be taken care off by paying for the gas that reaches our borders.
     
  14. SADAKHUSH

    SADAKHUSH Senior Member Senior Member

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    We will be better off by importing LNG from Qatar and they might give us better rates since they lost the proposed export to USA due to the surplus of natural gas production in North America. We are going to end up financing their next misadventure against Bharatvarsh which will be a slap on the face of Con-Gressi regime.
     
  15. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Pakistan will always remain relevant even if india becomes richest nation on earth.And even if india solve all its outstanding problems (including border dispute) with china then also there are chances of china using pakistan as its cat's paw in subcontinent to pin prick india.Above all in every secenario india and china will remain economic and military adversary even if all the china-india disputes are solved.India's wester frontiers beyond indus were always remain a source of headache for any ruler of subcontinent and now today that frontier has got moved towards east of indus in the form of pakistan.Even when india was always a economic power in earlier days that didnt made indian land beyond indian western forntier as irrelavant and that economic power india was always defeated by all those attacking hordes which came from west.
     
  16. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The mere fact that you are hoping on China to forever prop Pakistan up against India only further illustrates how weak and insignificant Pakistan continues to become.

    Solving the Indo-Pak issue is a crucial necessity for Pakistan, not for India! We can continue to ignore Pakistan and get on with our business; it is Pakistan which is ending up on the loosing side.

    The idea that Pakistanis live with, that they can forcefully submit India to solve issues with Pakistan, is ridiculous and far from reality.

    That is a very vague Pakistani myth.

    India fell prey to the hordes because it lacked a militaristic culture. Once the Sikhs militarized, the Durranis and Afghanistan folded like a cheap deck of cards.

    There was hardly a single Muslim Punjabi leader who rose out to prominence. The best militaristic leader the present Pakistani lands could produce was a Sikh, Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

    The history of the lands which constitute Pakistan shows that the Muslim Punjabis of the region have a track record of submission and capitulation to foreigners; and clearly, Pakistan today is playing that role well.

    So, trust me when I say that your self-perception is not shared with anyone else; especially anyone from Indian Punjab! We know the realities of what Pakistanis are capable of, and we're not impressed.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2012
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  17. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    ^^ To add to that, in today's modern era, we have electrified lighted fence (which is visible from outer space), GPS, video cameras, surveillance equipment, state of the art technology, etc., which the ancient era did not have.

    Far easier to keep out barbarians of the modern era compared to barbarians of the ancient era. All the more so, since India will be more militarily powerful than any barbarians coming in from the West, in the foreseeable future.
     
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  18. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    Blowing the crap out of them is another (and probably the best possible) option.

    However any energy pipeline through Pakistan is the biggest liability. It could put India's energy need at the behest of Pakistan, and not to forhet the jihadi's and the terrorist who could put it to any possible use, lest we forget 26/11)
     
  19. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    We have something much better than all that to keep the Barbarians at bay!

    We have Pakistan as a buffer! :D
     
  20. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Relevance of pakistan in indian calculations was there in past and is there in present and will remain so in future too.Solving Indo-pak is as much crucial to indian interests as it is to pak.coz india cant afford to have 2 antagonistic nuke powers at its borders who are alied against india.If pakistan was unable to solve disputes with india by force in past it doesnt mean pakistan cant do so now or in future(as it it is nuke power now)




    It was always the case whenever punjab and sind fell to the marauding hordes it didnt take much time for whole of india to fall.In a sense punjab and sindh always acted as buffer to protect india over centuries.So before maharaja ranjit singh's rise to power under total chaos all over india punjabis be it sikh hindu were always surrendered and converted to deen of the powerful muslim victorrs.so in a sense hindus and sikh of punjabi heritage are equally cowards as muslims were.And so were hindus of north india and gangetic plains who were as cowards as punjabis when they submitted to first various muslim hordes and then british.
     
  21. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    your fence couldn't able to stop kasab and his gang to paralyze mumbai for 3 days and kill 170 odd people. your electrified fence and modern technology couldnt stop series of bomb blasts in various indian cites over last decade.
     

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