Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by parijataka, Jul 1, 2012.
Theresa May 'planning changes to immigrant test'
Now begins the real fun, what will our self-styled champions of secularism say? A real western country becomes communal, this is really fun!
Good decision. UK is not like India where secularism has some weird, illogical and absurd definition.
UK is a Christian country like Turkey is Islamic, India is Hindu, Japan is Buddhist, Israel is Jew. Most of them aren't religious state but Secularism doesn't mean the culture of the country should be compromised just because some section of the society doesn't respect the culture of the nation. The one (Read Muslims) are migrating to UK should respect and assimilate in society by accepting the culture of the country. Non-Muslims do the same everywhere. If anyone has problem, They should live in 50+ Islamic La la land! No one is inviting. They are getting the privilege and shouldn't be misused.
I am afraid i can't see anything overty communal here
Calling a spade a spade is not communal AFAIK
All through the middle ages England was as christian a country in the world as there can be
and it did shape their culture to a large extent .....
and i Think this piece of Information is quiet vital to understanding the cultural backdrop of UK
anyway ...as a "self-styled champions of secularism" i seek to defend only secularism as laid down in Indian Constituion
what UK does is none of my business really ....!
i seek to differ here .....
Untill the 19th century
the Population and ruler in Uk was almost completely Christian so yes it can claim to be Historically a Christian Country
same's true about Turkey in regards to Islam ....
Japan ....is a much more complicated case ...with shinto etc ..
and Israel didnt even exist
But India has always had Sizeable non Hindu Population ....
and also Non Hindu rulers for large swathes of time ....
actually until the arab Invaders came ....there wasn't any single faith that could have been called Hindu
so no ...IMHO India was not a Hindu country in the same vein as Uk being Christian...
Actually Britain was never Secular constitutionally to begin with. However, I like how conservatism is gaining a foothold in Britain. The more they regress into their past glory the sooner their decline would come.
Indian non Hindu population was non-exiastant before the Islamic invasion at the beginning of the first millenium. As far as "Hindu" identity, the very name is non-Indian to begin.Hindu comes from the word "Hind" which is Arabic for Sindh- it meant the teaming humanity east of sindhu river. The idea of Sanatana Dharma got morphed to the strange word "hinduism" during British Raj era. India never had a religion , but it always had Dharma. So if you have a problem of calling India Hindu, may I suggest Dharmic? It has benn said many many times that it is Dharma that is keeping India what it is. So, letÂ´s call India a Dharmic country.
India similarly can be call India Dhamic, since Dharma is the bedrock of the Indian identity,the very idea of India.
Galaxy, I think the comparison between UK and India is wrong. UK never had any other religion in their country for 1000 years. Migration to Britain especially from outside Europe with other religion particularly Islam is more of a post world war II phenomenon.
The choice of working is "politically correct" as in it says that immigrants will be taught that Britain has been a Christian country. It's like informing the immigrant rather than telling them we are a Christian country and you better follow it so something. I don't see anything "unsecular" about this. They are just trying to tell immigrants about their country, history and culture.
The English are scared that their Country might be overtaken by Pakistanies for whom religion is more precious than life and then declare that UK is an Islamic country (Darul Ul Islam).
The effects of population pyramid in UK have started showing. The aged population is scared. the young whites are hopelessly minority and the majority amongst the young would be Pakistanies.
...so was Hindu Population . . . . . .since Hindu as religion didnt exist ..... and u're conveniently forgetting Budhdhists and Budhdhist Rulers ....
you can keep inventing terms ....but there's no real boundary ...for wht these terms may or may not include ....
India was Very Secular in its soul then as it is now ....ready to assimilate new thought and culture as and when they came
Hey you... who me? Yeah you... this is a Christian country and you don't have any rights until you get that. Got it? Nope... i'm going back home.
I did not invent the term, dude. Many people have done it before. Buddhism is not an ism either- it is also a Dharma.
India - A sacred geography bound by Dharma
Allright, you may not agree with my assertion, will a white ladyÂ´s view conform to your standards?
I am quoting one of my posts in the rajiv malhotra thread, appears germane here:
This is what I meant by the Dharmic way. I you have an alternate view, please do say it.
I have already read this very celebrated post already made in this forum some time ago ...
and i compltely agree with the opinions in the article
They however do nothing to change what i have said earlier
'Dharma' as a term can be loosely defined as Righteous Nature
and is not Limited to any single religion .......
Yes, and no. Dharma does mean what you said. But it also means property, spiritual path(that can be construed as religion), duty, along with many other meanings. All you have to do is to pick up an Indian language, and an English dictionary, and compare the meanings of the words Dharma and religion, side by side. Any Indian language would do, be it Hindi,bangla, Oriya.
Let me quote from one my old posts:
Well done --
One must not be ashamed of his identity --
the two Things you name here namely
Property (i m not very sure what u mean by this )
Apply to all religions .....
care to show me how Dharma is exclusive to Hinduism ??
I dont know what to say ..... medieval History is full of Bloody Conflicts between Shaivas and Vaishnavas ....
even in contemporary India ....You only need to visit Kumbh mela for yourself once ...where all the
Akhadas meet each other ...and Skirmishes that follow over ...who has more right, authority ...and whose views are more correct ...etc etc
India's cultural heritage and civilization identity is Dharmic in nature --
If the Abrahamiac religions had not been there, still this land, Bharatvarsh would have been the same..I dare say it would have been more peaceful...but if Sanatan Dharma -- Hinduism and its sister religions -- had not been there, then there is no Bharat.
India may be politically secular -- but its culturally and civilizationally Dharmic. That was,is and will be our identity.
I never said it is exclusive to Hinduism. I said it includes any faith that embraces the Dharmik worldview - meaning also Buddhism , jainism and sikhisism.
Have you ever heard a war between two kingdoms of different sampradays-like Shaivas and vaishnavas trying to wipe out the existance of the other, like you see Ahmadis being hunted to extinction in ancient or medieval India? You are comparing apples and oranges! The first wave of settlers came to America to escape from religious persecution in England (watch shekhar kapoorÂ´s ELIZABETH to understand what I am talking about). Do you see vaishnavs burning shaiva temples? Religious riots among Hindus? What you said before were wars between Empires, which never had a religious undertone, unlike the Islamic conquests in India.
As far as kumbhmela is concerned , yes such fights do happen, but they always personal conflicts, never institutionalised.
Dharma is supposed to be an all encompassing thought ......
So i wonder why this all encompassing thought cannot encompass these Abrahmical thoughts as it did with every thing else
e.g Budhdha's teachings ...which were on many counts in direct contrast to existing Brahiminical teachings ....but later they were assimilated too
so why this strange resistance to Abrahamiac thought ......
Why does it fail in its all All encompassing ability here ....
Mere speculations ...we cannot limit our identity on mere speculations
Separate names with a comma.