Imam of China's largest mosque killed in Xinjiang

Discussion in 'China' started by Sea Eagle, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. Sea Eagle

    Sea Eagle Senior Member Senior Member

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    The imam of China's largest mosque, in the city of Kashgar in Xinjiang, has been killed in what appears to be a targeted assassination.
    Jume Tahir, 74, was reportedly stabbed after he led early morning prayers at the Id Kah mosque on Wednesday.
    His killing came two days after dozens of people were reportedly killed or injured in clashes with police in Yarkant county, in the same prefecture.
    The reasons for his death remain unclear.
    But the BBC's Damian Grammaticas in Beijing says Mr Tahir, who was from Xinjiang's mainly Muslim Uighur ethnic minority, was a vocal and public supporter of Chinese policies in the region.

    Radio Free Asia quoted an unnamed shop owner near Id Kah as saying he saw a body lying in a pool of blood front of the mosque in the morning and police clearing a huge crowd that had gathered. He was told the body was that of Mr Tahir.
    A hasty burial was conducted by the late afternoon and the funeral procession was heavily guarded by military and police, according to The Los Angeles Times.

    Shortly after his death, police sealed off roads in and out of Kashgar and cut internet and text messaging links to other parts of China. Those restrictions have since been lifted.
    Mr Tahir was appointed imam of the 600 year old mosque by China's ruling Communist Party.
    Some say he was deeply unpopular among many Uighurs who disliked the fact that he praised Communist Party policies while preaching in his mosque.

    He had also echoed the official government line that blamed the rising level of violence in Xinjiang on Uighur separatists and extremists, says our correspondent.

    On Monday, a knife wielding gang attacked a police station and government offices triggering clashes that killed "dozens" of Uighur and Han Chinese civilians, according to state media outlet Xinhua.
    But activists disputed this account and said that local Uighurs were protesting against a Chinese crackdown on the observance of Ramadan, which ended on Monday.
    Reports surfaced earlier this month that some government departments in Xinjiang were banning Muslim staff from fasting during Ramadan, and several university students told the BBC that they were being forced to have meals with professors.
    There has been an upsurge in Xinjiang linked violence that authorities have attributed to Uighur separatists.
    In May at least 31 people were killed when two cars crashed through an Urumqi market and explosives were thrown. In March, a mass stabbing at Kunming railway station killed 29 people.
    In response Chinese authorities have launched a year long security campaign which includes increased police and troop presence in key cities and towns in Xinjiang. Scores of people have been arrested, and some sentenced to lengthy jail terms or death.

    BBC News - Imam of China's largest mosque killed in Xinjiang
     
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  3. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    I find these periodic Xinjiang outbursts to be indicative the tip of a ginormous ice berg. I think tensions in the region have been mounting for a while and the CCP has merely been keeping everything under wraps. There's very little doubt that the CCP has been heavily manipulating every aspect of the Xinjiang provice. Hand picking religious leaders to idiotically spout communist propaganda has been an age old strategy of the Chinese establishment. Much like the Indian government circa late 1980s, the Chinese government refuses to understand why these intrusive tactics piss people off. Sad to say, but I foresee the Uighur $hit hitting the (made in China) fan sometime in the near future.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
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  4. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    The outburts are periodic indeed, we have seen them since 1997 if not earlier. Things will calm down eventually.

    China may ease grip on Xinjiang allowing more religious freedom and seek concession from local leaders and clerics. She might also expedite efforts to bring more wealth to the region.
     
  5. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    They killed a 74-year-old grandfather because they didn't agree with what he said. They do not deserve life. Exterminate them, confiscate their belongings, and place their children in the hands of foster parents thousands of kilometers away.
     
  6. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    This was my understanding of the situation too. Well, until I realized that this feel good narrative is more reflective of what the CCP wants people to believe rather than the ground reality itself. I honestly don't think the CCP has any genuine intentions of being benevolent towards the Uighurs (or anyone else for that matter). Even if the Chinese economy continues to boom and the center is able to occasionally throw the Uighurs their table scraps it will all eventually come to a head. This is not a matter of if, it's a question of when.
     
  7. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes, that is your understanding, but far from ground reality. Just like those western newspapers writing about India society.
    No, political freedom or religious freedom, no matter whatever you call it, is just a small fraction of problem. The real problem is economic inequality: in history, water resource, control of mines; today you can add on employment, the right of construction. The clashes over these can be traced back to 18 century, the date first wave of Uighurs and Hans immigrants came in to fill the vacuum after Qing wiped out the local Mongols (Yes, contrasting to what they claimed, Xinjiang was neither their land, nor Han's land. It was Mongols land). At the beginning, they fought individually, then tribes against villages, finally Uighurs took the upper hand by being organized by Islamic religion. But at the time, they made a big mistake--expanding their fight towards other races, such as Hui, Kazakh, Tajik, etc. By pissing off every race, the government got involved. This time, these Uighurs faced no longer other races' militia but army--Qing army first, then KMT army and PLA. In each battle, the Uighurs rebels impressed gov with their fighting spirit encouraged by islam. So every government adopted the same policy: controlling Islamic mosque and weaken their influence. And Uighurs see religion as their backbone in the fighting.
    There was no government (Qing, KMT or CCP) had any genuine intentions of being benevolent towards a group of rebels. But CCP is the only one which was willing to make a compromise. Now, for whatever reason, Uighurs decide to throw it on CCP's face.
     
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  8. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    hardly relevant to "benevolence" . it all roots from their "religion" itself - those diehard extremist sects incompatible with mordernity and mainstream.

    the imam outspokenly condemned wahabism and called for job creation in Kashgar to reduce loafs who may easily be tempted by evils.

    this murder just shows they're even intolerant of moderates in an attempt to intimidate others- the "silent" majority. thus it's naive to "compromise " with lunatics as will alienate the genuine moderate. a legislation shall be made to punish and sideline terrorists families by fines, displacing or other penalties just like Israel or Russian Duma did, instead of wishy washy concessions.

    Soviet Union for a while may have tamed such elements well and civilized Caucasia and C. Asia in a way. however once it toppled down those bigotry revived then there were Chechen, Uzbek and Tajik fundamenalist revolts for many years until being clamped dow again by iron fist. Xinjiang is not insulated from neighboring cesspools, or Turkey, Egypt where thousands go to study, or Mecca where many go on hajj and back with radicalism!

    Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
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  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Poor Joe the Imam being knocked out all because he was loyal to the Chinese.
     
  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    This type of punitive action against terrorists have been tried from time immemorial.

    Collective fine, as history of insurgency shows, only alienates the people and the movement gets more teeth.
     
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    As a Chinese you feel that economy is the panacea for stability, remove inequality and removal of all evil from the society.

    Since you do not have 'real' religion in China, you will not understand the 'power' of religion to mould a mindset and make people angry enough to risk their life and limb. By 'real' religion I mean free from Govt control. In China, the Govt monitors and directs the religious leaders and so in that sense, it is a 'guided' but not 'real' religion.

    Look at the Monks in Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand, who are Buddhists and supposed to be the most docile of all religions. They do not suffer from any inequality in any form. And yet they agitate at the risk of life and limb, against their Govt (and even topple it in some cases) - a govt that is made up of their own co-religionists.

    You take the Islamic terrorists and suicide bombers. Quite a few are highly educated, and were from well paid and respectable jobs. They have given it up for what they perceive as their religious duty to fight against Kaffirs.

    For instance, Osama Bin Laden was a rich man, but he gave it up to live in caves and be the ideologue of the terrorists. Ayman al-Zawahri, the No 2, who was himself a successful surgeon, came from prosperous families. Ayman's father, Mohammed Rabie al-Zawahiri, came from a large family of doctors and scholars. Mohammed Rabie became a surgeon, and a medical professor at Cairo University. Ayman's mother, Umayma Azzam, came from a wealthy, politically active clan.

    Can anyone by any stretch of imagination state that they were subject to any inequality, be it economic, social or economic?

    Therefore, the fervour of religion can make even the sane and rich act in a manner that is abhorrent to civilised society.

    One must see terrorism from all angles and see it from the eye-view of a terrorist and not through our own lesson and pre-set ideas.
     
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  12. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    it's very stupid of u to call the dead - a revered imam a Joe. I could have reported u to the mods for your offence !

    knocked out for being loyal to Chinese? if not loyal to Chinese what else shall a Chinese be loyal to? grow a brain not just play with words!

    Imam Tahir died for what he believed in and his predecessor in this very mosque was also murdered in 1996 for preaching Islam of peace against violence too.

    Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
     
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Once again, one should not apply western templates to China's handling of issues.

    Historically, it has successfully applied what is called Sinicisation or Hanisation, wherein unruly, rebellious people were assimilated into China and made Han, as it expanded its frontiers.

    Notice how the Hui people, were assimilated and became Han. They only difference is that the don't eat pork and practice Islam. As you will be aware, the Hui Chinese have diverse origins. Those in the Northwest are are direct descendants of Silk Road travellers. And those in the southeast coast (e.g., Guangdong, Fujian) are of mixed local and foreign descent are of the of Arab (Dashi) and Persian (Bosi) origin from the sea faring traders, who brought Islam to China, the same way they brought Islam to the Cham people of Cambodia.

    They are doing the same Sinicisation in Xinjiang and Tibet. They are early days for China's action in these two places. It is Work in Progress.
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Respected Imam.

    So what?

    A religious Joeso has no business to mix religion with politics or act as a spokesman or a stooge of the Govt. When he degrades religion by delving in the temporal abandoning the spiritual, he is but a stooge. And this Imam was a stooge of the Chinese Govt. What has this Joeso done for the Uighurs when China did everything to destroy Islam and its culture and its religious rites in Xinjiang? Maybe respected for you since he was your stooge, but not for others, if you will.

    Why the fraudulent love all of a sudden and why being so politically correct.

    The uncontrollable Uighurs have given you and China the Heebie Jeebies, and while you were so far acting pompous and arrogant so far, you now wish to kowtow?

    Go and cringe before the Uighurs. You have asked for it. One or two killings and you were lording it around and shoving them into jail. Now, it is huge riots and great knifing and you shiver and quiver out of sheer fear and go cringing, bowing and kowtowing with fraudulent political correctness and becoming the running dogs (Chinese phrase)!

    You are the real stupid Joe, fraudulent and duplicitous.

    As far as your reporting, who cares? It is no crime in India to call any religious leader or any leader or any person, a Joe. In China, the words used is as fickle as the wind and as the Politburo indicates. One day, Mao is 100% right when he was alive; and then when Deng says, Mao is 70% correct and 30% wrong, the Chinese facetiously without a blink of an eye or conscience or morality start parroting the same as if it was what you all thought all the time even when Mao was alive.

    And since you are a Chinese and may not be conversant with the English language, 'Joe' means 'an average man' i.e. any man. Figure of speech!

    You chaps are worse than weather co.cks.

    Report to Xi. Maybe he will get a you a seat in the Chinese Politburo!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    All quotes are from

    State-Appointed Muslim Leader Killed in China - WSJ

    Imams cannot be appointed by the State. If he is so appointed then it is obvious that he will parrot the Govt thoughts and plans. Hence, a stooge.

    An Imam e represents the holy Prophet in the mosque and not the Govt.

    What does that prove?

    The CCP appointed Imam is a respected and revered Joe amongst the Uighurs? An Imam's word is respected and obeyed by Muslims, but if inspite of this Imam spouting CCP views, cannot control a year long bout of killing and mayhem, he is hardly taken to be a leader of the Uighur Muslims or even revered by teh Uighurs.

    This is a clear indication that there is NO real Islam being allowed in Xinjiang, but the Islam is CCP controlled and contrived and way way far from the real Islam.

    It will happen if there is no freedom to practice one's religion instead of having a Communist controlled and forced Islam down the throats by stooges masquerading as Imams.
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    If interpreted it also means one cannot be a recording of the State CCP.
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Let's revisit your post since I find it most amusing and horribly Janus like and double dealing (but then that is kosher, right?)

    He is not a 'revered' Imam. If he were, he and his predecessor would not have been mowed down. Islam does not recognise His Master's Voice, the Master's voice being that of the Chinese Communist Party.

    Yes, the Imam is a Chinese citizen, but his job is to ensure that the religion is not totally dragged into the mud and obliterated from the face of the Earth as it is being done in China, where Ramazan is not being allowed to be held and people forced to eat, under the silly pretext that fasting would make them weak, bring inefficiency and ruin their health. Ramazan is practised by Muslims all over the world and none have been found wanting.

    Maj Gen Zu Shah (later LT Gen and now VC AMU), while fasting daily did his 18 hole Golf without any loss of efficiency or enthusiasm. Maybe the Han Chinese feel weak, inefficient and unhealthy if they miss even a single meal. I wonder if that is true, but since your Govt and Mainland Chinese feel so, lets believe it. Overseas Chinese do not take a meal to be as if food is vanishing from the Earth, even if Mainland ones feel so.

    I would feel a person who is an Imam, selling his religion for a place in the Peoples Assembly and spouting platitudes while his religion for which he is responsible to his people is being obliterated and defiled is hardly a chap to be an Imam in the true Islamic sense. Hence, he is hardly a 'revered' Joe! In fact, he is a Stooge.

    If Tahir or his predecessor felt that kowtowing to the Han Chinese and the Communist Party of China and mouthing their propaganda, while the religion is crushed underfoot, is the way to seek Peace, then surely, those who take religion seriously will revolt. Killing such stooges, who wholesale sell the religion for personal aggrandisation, is not surprising.
     
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  18. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

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    It might be friendship killing since china & pakis are step brothers:taunt:
     
  19. sydsnyper

    sydsnyper Senior Member Senior Member

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    You almost brought me to tears with your respect & love for islam and one of its mullas...... but I managed to control my laughter.

    Pray tell us where was your deep love when china made these people pray to the communist flag, made them wear the flag in mosques and forced government employee muslims from keeping the fast...... among the many other atrocities.....

     
  20. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    No save your tears or laughters. A Chinese has to be loyal to Chinese, Muslim or non Muslim, this is a given. It's none of our business whatever allegiance U as an Indian would bear with, or whatever abhorrence u may have for "atrocities", or your heartfelt support for muslim staff to fast. It's your own call. But for us Chinese we'd stick to our own way!

    Communist or non Communist, CCP or whatever party in power, so long as it's competent, it would take the same position towards terrorists, Muslim or non Muslim, and would command loyalty to the country as a basic.

    [​IMG]



    Now if u still have tears for Muslims who're unable to fast, or groan under Chinese oppression, feel free to CRY ME A RIVER. Again it's your personal choice Chinese won't give a damn.
     
  21. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    The Uighurs identify themselves through their religion (i.e. more than 'just for fighting'). As long as the CCP keeps fooling around with the religious body none of their compromises will have a true impact. If the CCP wants to establish lasting peace with the Uighurs they're going to have to give them full autonomy to peacefully practice their religion on their own terms and concurrently give them a seat at the table. If they don't do this (which I doubt they will) the conflict will only grow.
     

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