If He Had Reached Delhi.....

civfanatic

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Netaji was a national socialist; not a communist as you'd like to imagine.
Netaji was NOT a national socialist, he was a socialist nationalist. The terms may sound similar, but there is a world of difference between the two. Please understand what they actually mean before labelling Netaji with them.
 

roma

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What did Nehru Gandhi achieve in 1947? Murder, killing, rapes, abductions wreaked on Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab and Bengal!! Horrible riots of Calcutta stopped only when it became crystal clear that city was included in India.

Princely states were united by Patel. Nehru did not allow Patel to deal with J&K, and results you can see. What else? Oh, I nearly forgot. Gandhi threatened a fast Pakistan was not paid 55 crore rupees. A big sum in 1947.

Tibet and China was already muddled by Nehru when way back in 1939 he declared that Tibet is an autonomous region o0f China. Import of that? McMahon line became invalid, whole of India China boundary became unsettled and undemarcated. Results are there too see.
you are quoting nehru's faolures - and you may well be right ---- does that mean Bose would have been any better ? a person whoc did not manage to rise to leadership in organisations within his own country would suddenly have the political acument to handle all those boundary and unity issues ? - i seriously doubt not .

Bose simply lacked political acumen big time - wearing Jack boots and hitler salutes ! huh really ! playing soldiers ?
 

The Messiah

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You kidding me? Emergency was against the will of the people but everything was so damn organized. All the work in time, people not screwing public property like they do today, no protests, no trouble on the streets, crime became rare etc etc. THIS my friend, is a system. Not the freedom to piss on footpath, drive on the wrong side, honk near a hospital or spit paan on the roads like south Asian "democracy". My father says a lot about emergency period. The only drawback was Indira Gandhi started to later misuse the systematic arrangement of emergency. But it was also a period where Indians were actually being taught how to live in a civilized manner. Singapore, UK, Denmark, Turkey etc all started with an authoritarian rule and moved into democracy, emerging as clean, developed, advanced nations while we continue to progress ahead simply because of common man's work like a zoo.
Quoted for truth.

Im a fan of emergency period myself but i wouldn't welcome it in the current climate.

The politicians now are a bunch of wankers (both congress and bjp). The opposition party will oppose just for the sake of opposing it and this is only one example.
 
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Suryakiran

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STOP dreaming GUYS

The British Indian army was 25 LAKHS in SIZE during the second world war

Netaji's INA and Japanese army and other forces were DEFEATED in second world war in the Battle of KOHIMA and battle of IMPHAL in 1944
Yes, size of The British Indian army was 25 lakhs, but a big part of British Indian Army was fighting in Africa and Europe with Axis forces, particularly Italian forces.
 

GPM

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you are quoting nehru's faolures - and you may well be right ---- does that mean Bose would have been any better ? a person whoc did not manage to rise to leadership in organisations within his own country would suddenly have the political acument to handle all those boundary and unity issues ? - i seriously doubt not .

Bose simply lacked political acumen big time - wearing Jack boots and hitler salutes ! huh really ! playing soldiers ?
Nehru's failuires are so Himalayan, anybody else would have done a better. Granted Bose was socialist, what was Nehru?

On the other hand Bose picked moves shrewdly. Only way way hec could have escaped was through Afghanistan and Russia. Stalin hardly was interested in giving real support, he knew that that a war with Germany was a matter of time. What would he if not consolidate his own military power? He saw no potential in Bose. So bose went to Germany. Germany was already embroiled in wars big time and was in position to help out, beyond proving him a radio station. Then he went to Japan. There he did get some material support and was allowed to organise an army from the Indian POW. Was it a small feat of organisation?

Nowhere had Bose shown turned out to be spineless dealing with Japan. INA unfurled the national flag on Indian soil wrested by FORCE. That is what fired the masses. Had he been able to advance into Assam, there would have been a massive mutiny by the Indian soldiers. It has happened earlier too. Napoleon is an example. He vanished from his prison and landed in France. There was a massive support for him. It is another thing that he lost at Waterloo. He still is a French hero. Bose's expedition was not much different. He too is a hero. Remember, Tsar's power collapsed not due to Lenin only, but due to a popular groundswell.

But it is fruitless speculation beyond that point.
 
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Tshering22

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^^ Netaji had the guts to do what he did for the motherland. He went out there, took the troubles of going from camp to camp and country to country be it Singapore Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. He had the guts of steel when he decided to take on a power that was the world superpower for the last 3 centuries. He and his supporters did what Nehru and Gandhi could never even have the guts to dream. The INA valiantly fought (even if they couldn't become our first government) like a lion and became immortal in the memories of Indian people while Nehru and Gandhi decided to tag along their British overlords like slaves.

It should come as no surprise why we are politically in such a quagmire today. A nation becomes what its leadership's qualities are. And Nehru and Gandhi are jokers when compared to INA.
 

S.A.T.A

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Renowned historian R.C Majumdar quotes the former governor of west Bengal P.B Chakrabarty eliciting former British prime Minister Lord Clement Attlee view on what forced the British to finally concede the indian independence,inspite of successfully weathering the quit indian movement,among other factor Lord Attlee is remarked to have cited the activities of Bose as very significant,on specifically asked about the role of Mahatma Gandhi in the final decision to quit,he reportedly says it was 'minimal'

Whatever the merit in Lord Attlee's observation it quite clear that S.C Bose and his INA caused great strains in Britain's ability to further extend the tenure of its already tottering empire in India.At any rate Bose was arguably one of the tallest nationalist political figure, only next to Gandhi, in bringing about the independence of India.

With regards to the question of Bose and INA waging violent campaign to bring about independence,as opposed to Congress and Gandhi's peaceful struggle,the argument is misplaced.Although Bose empathized the militant revolutionaries and their hit&run and the general tactics of sabotage,that did not extend into active sympathy for such an engagement( in that respect he was on the same page as Mahatma Gandhi).

Bose conceived INA as a legitimate and internationally recognized means to organize an armed resistance against an alien occupation power,the national army raised from the stock of soldiers already in the service of the British India,organizing them on a foreign friendly soil with the approval an active acknowledgement of the same foreign govt's,equipping them,training them,and establishing a universally recognized chain of command to administer the affairs o the INA,all indicate that Bose was keen to ensure that the INA would be waging a legitimate campaign of violence,well within international norms.

Bose went to great extremes to ensure that INA and its objectives were not misconstrued as an extension of the bloody revolutionary movement of the freedom struggle,His intention was to depict INA as carrying out a legitimate national resistance against an foreign occupying power,Bose was remarkably successful in respect.
 
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GPM

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Only Bose is known across India as NETAJI. This title was not artificially given to him by politicos but by masses. Contrast that Father of Nation thrust on Ganmdhi and thrust down the collective throat of masses. People actively differ FON thingy, but even the commies are forced to call Bose as Netaji. Netaji is the bigger icon.

Quit India was crushed comprehensively by the British. Congress could not even publicise the Bengal famine of 42-43. That was Gandhi's signal faiulure. Netaji was defeated on the battle field, but he was not crushed. The imagination of masses he fired was not crushed. Nehru tried his damned best to downplay Netaji, but the masses gave a thumb down to the idea.

Had he marched on to Delhi, Gandhi and Nehru would be on the run.
 
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Tshering22

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Only Bose is known across India as NETAJI. This title was nmot artificially given to him by politicos but my masses. Contrast that Father of Nation thrust on Ganmdhi and thrust down the collective throat of masses. Peop0le actively differ FON thingy, but even the commies are forced to call Bose as Netaji. Netaji is the bigger icon.

Quit India was crushed comprehensively by the British. Congress could not even publicise the Bengal famine of 42-43. That Gandhi's sitgnal faiulure. Netaji was defeated on the battle field, but he was not crushed. The imagination of masses he fired was not crushed. Nehru tried his damned best to downplay Netaji, but the masses gave a thumb down to the idea.

Had he marched on to Delhi, Gandhi and Nehru would be on the run.
100% Correct. Netaji got the title not from the parading of a slave political party of imperialists that continues its existence on the basis of its strong foreign support even today, but rather through people's love and respect for what he did for India. Quit India movement was crushed because Gandhi's spineless technique of "non-violence" was an epic fail against the expansive colonials who never hesitated to shoot any opposition down without batting an eyelid.

On the other hand, INA made the British (who were superpowers for the previous 3 centuries, unconquered) wet their pants. It was Nehru-Gandhi alliance that agreed to hand over Netaji to British if he was caught. I am sure that Congress was responsible for the death of Netaji as well. Remember; Congress came into power and was allowed to run a representative government during the British Raj simply because of its slave mentality and subservience to the Raj. Why do you think Bhagat Singh, Tilak, Netaji and other warrior heroes were attempted to eradicate? Because they were a genuine threat to the Raj compared to the weakling and spineless Nehru-Gandhi duo.

Had the INA overrun the traitor Army of Nehru-Gandhi-British imperialists, today's India would have been in China's place economically and militarily at least 2 notches up.
 

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Only Bose is known across India as NETAJI. This title was nmot artificially given to him by politicos but my masses. Contrast that Father of Nation thrust on Ganmdhi and thrust down the collective throat of masses..
He he he. Netaji Bose was the first to call Gandhiji as Father of the Nation way before independence. It stuck from then on.

Concerned about Gandhiji, Netaji sent the following message to the Mahatma on Azad Hind Radio, Rangoon on 4th June, 1944.

"...........Nobody would be more happy than ourselves if by any chance our countrymen at home should succeed in liberating themselves through their own efforts or by any chance, the British Government accepts your `Quit India' resolution and gives effect to it. We are, however proceeding on the assumption that neither of the above is possible and that a struggle is inevitable.

Father of our Nation in this holy war for India's liberation, we ask for your blessings and good wishes".

The above message also proves beyond any doubt Netaji's 'reverence and warm feelings towards Gandhiji whom he had addressed as The Father of the Nation'
 

Yusuf

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For Bose, fascism was a technique of political organization, and a diagram for relations between government and society. Bose was not a democrat. He may have been one in the 1920's, but by the late 1930's he was quite certain that parliamentary democracy was not suitable for India. In his mind, India needed firm control by a single party, which would direct every aspect of social, political, economic and even personal life.

He believed that India's problems - such as caste discrimination, class injustice, the need for economic modernization, etc. - were so deep-rooted that mey could only be weeded out through massive state intervention. For this, Bose believed, the machinery of the state had to be in the hands of a single, powerful, reforming party organization, such as the Nazi Party in Germany or the Communist Party in the Soviet Union. At this point, he still believed that this party would be the Congress.

Also, although India was clearly on its way to independence by the mid-40's, this was not the kind of independence that Bose had wanted. For Bose, the revolution at home was as important as throwing out the British, and for this he needed to be completely in charge. He did not believe that the replacement of British rule by a conservative parliamentary democracy would not bring about fundamental changes in the structure of Indian society.

This brings us some of the most basic questions about Bose, the nationalist and the politician. What are we to make of the fact that he wanted to invite the Germans and the Japanese to invade India? And how do we reconcile his heroic status with the fact that he aligned himself with Nazi Germany, and that he openly advocated dictatorship as the best form of government for India?

Perhaps the biggest weakness in Bose's plan was his belief that even after bringing the Japanese into India, he could maintain effective control of the country. At a diplomatic level, he had grounds for believing he could pull this off. He refused to take India into the Japanese Co-Prosperity Sphere, which was the euphemism the Japanese used for their new empire in Asia, The Japanese accepted Bose's decision on this. Still, if the invasion of India had succeeded, it is difficult to see how he could have remained fully independent of Japanese control.

Bose felt that since the people of India would be with him, he would be able to resist Japanese demands. He knew that India was a long way from Japan, and that the Japanese were already at the limits of their capabilities. He also pointed out that the American revolutionaries had accepted assistance from France, and this didn't make the US a French colony. He may have had a point. But this analogy has its limits. Given the fact the INA was completely dependent on Japan for arms and ammunition, and that it would take time to develop an industrial infrastructure in India, Japan would probably have had a lot of leverage.

There is no getting away from the fact that Bose deliberately ignored the moral evil that Nazi Germany represented. He had lived in Germany for much of the 1930s and the early 40s. He must have known something of what was going on. He had the courage to speak out against some of the racist aspects of the Nazi ideology, and even speak his mind to Hitler himself. But he was not sufficiently disturbed by Nazism to reject Hitler's help. Similarly, his alliance with Japan ignored the atrocities that the Japanese had perpetrated against people in the countries they had occupied.

Unlike Gandhi and Nehru, Bose believed that the end justified the means. He wanted freedom for India, and to some extent, he didn't care who he had to approach for assistance. But this explanation, I think, is too kind to Bose. At some basic level, Bose had an ideological affinity for fascism, and he was a little too comfortable with using the state to crush dissent and ideological diversity.

Indians who refused to believe that Bose was dead, and who continued to believe for decades that he was alive somewhere in the Soviet Union, hoped he would just surface again some day like a messiah, and solve all of India's problems. Yet these people misunderstand Bose, and what he stood for. Had the INA and Bose succeeded on the battlefield, a free India would have been a totalitarian society.

Bose was passionate in his patriotism, and genuinely well-intentioned. He was genuine in his desire to help the disadvantaged segments of Indian society. But good intentions are not enough. Some of the greatest tyrants of the 20th century had good intentions: Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot. (You'll notice that these are all tyrants of the left. Tyrants of the right like Hitler, Franco, or the Shah of Iran, don't get credit for good intentions.)

Bose didn't seem to realize that the methods you choose do matter in the final analysis. Totalitarian institutions inevitably corrupt even the best-intentioned people. Even if it hadn't corrupted Bose himself, even if he had remained a so-called benevolent dictator, there would have been no guarantees that his successor would have been benevolent.
 

Tshering22

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He he he. Netaji Bose was the first to call Gandhiji as Father of the Nation way before independence. It stuck from then on.

Concerned about Gandhiji, Netaji sent the following message to the Mahatma on Azad Hind Radio, Rangoon on 4th June, 1944.

"...........Nobody would be more happy than ourselves if by any chance our countrymen at home should succeed in liberating themselves through their own efforts or by any chance, the British Government accepts your `Quit India' resolution and gives effect to it. We are, however proceeding on the assumption that neither of the above is possible and that a struggle is inevitable.

Father of our Nation in this holy war for India's liberation, we ask for your blessings and good wishes".

The above message also proves beyond any doubt Netaji's 'reverence and warm feelings towards Gandhiji whom he had addressed as The Father of the Nation'
It was Neta ji's polite way of saying "get-out-of-my-way-you-two-timing-piece-of-imperialist-slave" in those times, Yusuf. The reason why Netaji decided to say this is because he knew that Congress was nothing but the cr@p cleaners of imperialists of that era, especially Nehru and Gandhi.

You should be knowing that great leaders always had a way of talking when dealing with traitors, which had tremendous grace even in their style of condemnation. :lol:

And I would certainly agree to that translation. :india:
 

Yusuf

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Wow, I applaud your inference.

First people say "father of the nation" was hammered down the masses throat and now when I say it was a title given by Netaji, another spin is put on it. Good.
 

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In Congress paralance, anyone not kow towing to Gandhi-Nehru is a fascist. Prime examples are SP Mukherji, Lohia, Rajaji and later JP. Never mind the duo itself was autocratic. Now Randev and Anna are the latest additions.


So Yasuf, by living in Germany for some time Bose knew the inside and outside of Hitler's mind? Great, sir. So he was guilty.

What about the Britsh, French, American, Soviet ambssadors and their spies in Germany? Yet they kept their eyes shut to Hitler's "evil". Btw, Stalin had always been "evil" for the west, yet later on they had no compunction in befreinding him. Btw, Bose did not have intelligence support in Germany.


Pal, in real politics, democracy, autocracy etc take a back seat, national interest is to the fore. Reason why USA had never supported independence for India, any time.
 

Tshering22

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Wow, I applaud your inference.

First people say "father of the nation" was hammered down the masses throat and now when I say it was a title given by Netaji, another spin is put on it. Good.
Take a look at how Sardar Patel maneuvered around Gandhi and his lackey Nehru without actually opposing them on the face despite being in the same Congress. Did he get pissed and foul mouth the terrible duo? Nope. Same goes with both Netaji and to some extent Bhagat Singh. It was a way of working that these heros did.

Just run through each of these leaders' approaches and you'll see the reason behind this "twist".
 

Tshering22

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In Congress paralance, anyone not kow towing to Gandhi-Nehru is a fascist. Prime examples are SP Mukherji, Lohia, Rajaji and later JP. Never mind the duo itself was autocratic. Now Randev and Anna are the latest additions.


So Yasuf, by living in Germany for some time Bose knew the inside and outside of Hitler's mind? Great, sir. So he was guilty.

What about the Britsh, French, American, Soviet ambssadors and their spies in Germany? Yet they kept their eyes shut to Hitler's "evil". Btw, Stalin had always been "evil" for the west, yet later on they had no compunction in befreinding him. Btw, Bose did not have intelligence support in Germany.


Pal, in real politics, democracy, autocracy etc take a back seat, national interest is to the fore. Reason why USA had never supported independence for India, any time.
^^Bravo. Most Indians fail to understand this and start worshipping democracy and its "freedoms" that Nehru-Gandhi introduced to our country. Most of them start debating at the drop of a hat in justifying how great a path we chose and how heros like Netaji and Bhagat Singh and Savarkar were idiots to think otherwise of Gandhi-Nehru.

Some even go to the extent of calling association with Imperial Japanese and Nazi Germany as "horrifying". Why the hell is it horrifying? What they do with third countries is their business. They were cool with us and that's what most of them fail to understand. Congress education brainwashing for years and ramming Nehru Gandhi Gandhi Nehru into the throats and minds of our countrymen is the simple reason behind their ignorance or hesitation to see the reality.

I am not pointing at anyone specific but after reading the comments on this entire thread and some people's comments, one gets the idea that the terrible duo have done to minds of so many such millions of Indians. It is about time we change our education system from being Congress-obsessed to something more worthy. That is first needed for people to come out of this Zombie mode.
 

Yusuf

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Move to china and enjoy the freedom there.
 

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Take a look at how Sardar Patel maneuvered around Gandhi and his lackey Nehru without actually opposing them on the face despite being in the same Congress. Did he get pissed and foul mouth the terrible duo? Nope. Same goes with both Netaji and to some extent Bhagat Singh. It was a way of working that these heros did.

Just run through each of these leaders' approaches and you'll see the reason behind this "twist".
But for all that Bhagat Singh and others were condemned and not recognised as heroes. It was masses who did it.

Gandhi made it impossible for Bose to function as Cong prez. He went so far as to declare: Pattabhi Sitaramiah's defeat against Bose is my defeat. Some father of the nation. And Nehru joined in. Some democrat.

Bose was later completely disowned by Gandhi. Nehru even as good as declared him a war criminal.

" तुम मुझे खून दो; मैं तुम्हें आजादी दूंगा " (Give me blood and I will give you freedom). He made it clear that you have to fight not beg for freedom.

"दिल्ली चलो(Delhi Chalo)", meaning "On to Delhi!"

"जय हिंद (Jai Hind)", sickulars are already uncomfortable with this slogan.
***
Lols. Shivaji escaped from house arrest in Delhi. Bose diddit from Kolkata. Both the schemes were well planned and excuted. Tracks of both were covered in fool proof ways. Both travelled anonymously with changed identities. Bose emulated Shivaji, except that he used motor transport.
 
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amoy

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Some even go to the extent of calling association with Imperial Japanese and Nazi Germany as "horrifying". Why the hell is it horrifying? What they do with third countries is their business.
Quite a few cooperated with Japan during WW2 the same way as Bose the Nataji, including - Sukarno for Indonesia, and General Aung San for Burma
 

Godless-Kafir

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If Netaji reached delhi he would have got down from the train and gone to the toilet, then taken some tea and pokada and sat back on the train and gone to Punjab!

Whats with this thread anyway, i am waiting for it to die off and keeps comeing up!
 

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