If He Had Reached Delhi.....

roma

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the fact seems to be that netaji may have been a superb nationalist and administrator in his slightly smaller sphere but he didnt quite make it to be at the level of a politician that was necessary to triumph.

to be able to get India out of the British stranglehold and into independence , while keeping it united when there were communal and ethnic forces pulling the other way was a phenomenal feat that gandhi managed to pull off ( and i guess nehru too ) - Netaji just wasn't up to that level of being able to change and swerve one way and the other to achieve objectives.

i think we tend to underestimate the capabilities of Gandhi-nehru just because in the process of achieving great objectives under tremendously difficult situations they may have made one or two mistakes eg Kashmir as everyone quotes, but the fact remains that netaji couldn't handle the politics to make himself appealing to the British and thus be a candidate for leadership

he backed the wrong horses and that in politics is a basic fundamental error .
Such a person couldn't have quite cut it to be at the level of a politician that was required to lead India out of all that horrific mess she was in.
 
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GPM

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Roma seems to think that it was necessary to curry favours with British to be a leader of the cmasses. Fact is that people still call him Netaji.

Political outcome of INA were very pround.

- It fired the patriotism among the masses.
- It showed that the British COULD be defeat in a war.
- It Loyality of Indian soldiers could no longer be taken for granted. In fact, as told by my g'father, British officers were officers in name only. Most knew by end of 45 that their days were numbered in India, and were increasingly keen to get out. They steadily got out too.

INA inspired naval mand air force revolts too. Last nails in the coffins of the British jackboots.

BHtw, Netaji left the presidency of the Cong BECAUSE Gandhi made it impossible for him to function, far from a democratic move.
 

roma

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Hi GPM - not necessarily "curry favour " but simply to cooperate to facilitate the hand over of power - eg what th e Tengku Abdul Rahman of malaya did with the brits and he was very handsomely rewarded with the addition of territories more than 3 times the size of malaya to foerm a new nation called malaysia. .... not by currying favour or any kind of bowing but simply a continuation of their strategic policies , in particular to be anti communist in doctrine and practice .

nevertheless i do not doubt the authenticity of your information and thank you for it .
 
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GPM

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Roma, the turn of events in 1945 and even in 1942 were tumultous and only a very shred oilitician could judge them and draw proper conclusions. One stark writing on the wall was that loyality of Indian soldiery had become suspect. Without Indian Army, British could not dream of continuing. British empire was in ruins and by mid sixties it was dismantled too. British read it, French and Portugese could not.

Even in 1940 or so Indians were already cheering German victories and jeering the British.
 

Sabir

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it's a mistake to think that INA's objective was to gain independence by fighting the BIA. quite the contrary, netaji knew throughout that he was never going to be successful by militaristic means, the whole point of INA was to inspire Indians and especially the soldiers in the armed forces to rebel against the british. in the end this is exactly what happened, post the red fort trials there was a massive nationalistic mutiny in the RIN and sporadic isolated cases of insubordination and mutiny in military bases across the country.
that, more than anything else convinced the british that India was too hot to handle and it was time to leave quickly and cut losses.

as for his relations with the germans and japanese, they were always uneasy and he was forever trying to become independent of their influence.
During first world war Indian revolutionaries like Rasbihari Bose, Bagh Jatin attempted that with the help of Indians abroad and some foreighn government. Unfortunately British detectives foiled their plans. Bagha Jatin Died in Balasore when he went there to received arms sent from abroad. Rasbihar Bosed escaped fro India. Later , it is the same Rasbihari Bose who brought netaji in Japan and handed over all the power of INA to him. Please search for 'Hindu German Conspiracy' in google. It will be a good read.
 

GPM

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it's a mistake to think that INA's objective was to gain independence by fighting the BIA. quite the contrary, netaji knew throughout that he was never going to be successful by militaristic means, the whole point of INA was to inspire Indians and especially the soldiers in the armed forces to rebel against the british. in the end this is exactly what happened, post the red fort trials there was a massive nationalistic mutiny in the RIN and sporadic isolated cases of insubordination and mutiny in military bases across the country.
that, more than anything else convinced the british that India was too hot to handle and it was time to leave quickly and cut losses.

as for his relations with the germans and japanese, they were always uneasy and he was forever trying to become independent of their influence.
One thing is sure. He was strong willed man, reason why could organise INA. As military goes, INA was not more than 70,000 to 90,000. He must have been aware that it was not enough to eject the British, boosted by American, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand troops. But he did succeed in showing that British could be beaten militarily in India. He shattered the halo of invincibility. And that fired the Indian masses, and inspired mutinies in 1946.

Post Jalianwala Nepal had it made it clear the Gurkha troops would not ordered to sdhoot on Indians. In 1946, no Indian troops were eager to shoot fellow Indians. So the British decided to leave.
 

GPM

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the fact seems to be that netaji may have been a superb nationalist and administrator in his slightly smaller sphere but he didnt quite make it to be at the level of a politician that was necessary to triumph.

to be able to get India out of the British stranglehold and into independence , while keeping it united when there were communal and ethnic forces pulling the other way was a phenomenal feat that gandhi managed to pull off ( and i guess nehru too ) - Netaji just wasn't up to that level of being able to change and swerve one way and the other to achieve objectives.

i think we tend to underestimate the capabilities of Gandhi-nehru just because in the process of achieving great objectives under tremendously difficult situations they may have made one or two mistakes eg Kashmir as everyone quotes, but the fact remains that netaji couldn't handle the politics to make himself appealing to the British and thus be a candidate for leadership

he backed the wrong horses and that in politics is a basic fundamental error .
Such a person couldn't have quite cut it to be at the level of a politician that was required to lead India out of all that horrific mess she was in.
What did Nehru Gandhi achieve in 1947? Murder, killing, rapes, abductions wreaked on Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab and Bengal!! Horrible riots of Calcutta stopped only when it became crystal clear that city was included in India.

Princely states were united by Patel. Nehru did not allow Patel to deal with J&K, and results you can see. What else? Oh, I nearly forgot. Gandhi threatened a fast Pakistan was not paid 55 crore rupees. A big sum in 1947.

Tibet and China was already muddled by Nehru when way back in 1939 he declared that Tibet is an autonomous region o0f China. Import of that? McMahon line became invalid, whole of India China boundary became unsettled and undemarcated. Results are there too see.
 

GPM

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1. Even though he was one of the most charismatic leaders of that time, he failed to impress Indian masses to join INA.

2. He went for help to the devil, to get rid of the devil.

GK did sum up most of everything.
1. Untrained masses were not encouraged to join. He was able to recruit trained soldiers and officers./

2. The British were the only devils known to India. Hitler was not yet painted a devil. But then the British too declared Netaji as war criminal. Maybe Nehru agreed with them, just to curry favours. If Russia was a devil, then Nehru too took help from them.

Btw, Hitler is no special villain or hero of India. But by God, did he weaken the imperialism?
 

Tshering22

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It is almost laughable how weak Indians have come to grown that they revere a form of political governance rather than the core interest of the nation!! :lol: I cannot believe how the lop-sided democracy we follow here is being worshipped. Democracy is good but Netaji would have been great as a leader. Don't understand why the heck would someone worry about other races and nations around the world. How does it matter whether Imperial Japan and Germany ruled the world? They helped us is all we should care about. How much does the world care about India? Forgot what that swine Churchill did in Bengal? Forgot what Pakistanis did during partition despite being "our own" as the messiah indirectly?

Accept this; the western world only values India today because of the potential of Indians and the significant status we are in today due to the work of every COMMON MAN (not politicians). Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan supported us when we were a nobody more than 60 years ago. That's what we should be care about. The funny thing is, most Indians prefer to bleed for the world when the world doesn't care for us. The first sign of weakness that is not reasonable in modern world.

I am not saying that Netaji would have been what Mauryans were or for that matter any legendary emperors we had, but he would have been a hundred times better than anything we have today. I prefer a clean system rather than a democracy or dictatorship. If dictatorship does that right job rightly, I don't mind it. Ask a road worker what he'd prefer: freedom to spit paan or pee on the road calling this a miracle of democracy OR two full meals a day + a house to live and basic facilities. You'll get your answer.
 

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If he would have reach Delhi and capture it then we would have said Heil Hitler and Hitler's pic in every home.
 

Tshering22

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What did Nehru Gandhi achieve in 1947? Murder, killing, rapes, abductions wreaked on Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab and Bengal!! Horrible riots of Calcutta stopped only when it became crystal clear that city was included in India.

Princely states were united by Patel. Nehru did not allow Patel to deal with J&K, and results you can see. What else? Oh, I nearly forgot. Gandhi threatened a fast Pakistan was not paid 55 crore rupees. A big sum in 1947.

Tibet and China was already muddled by Nehru when way back in 1939 he declared that Tibet is an autonomous region o0f China. Import of that? McMahon line became invalid, whole of India China boundary became unsettled and undemarcated. Results are there too see.

Some people cannot remember the dark realities of that past.
 
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Tshering22

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If he would have reach Delhi and capture it then we would have said Heil Hitler and Hitler's pic in every home.
This is what most people like to imagine. With Nehru-Gandhi alliance, we still consider everything western as ultimate reality including the education system that is totally modified to fit them as kings always. Actually it was Hitler's bombing of UK that gave India the freedom, contrary to what most blinded Indians think that Gandhi's fasting and Nehru's marches gave us freedom.
 

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The alliance between Netaji and the Axis was a marriage of convenience and nothing else.

If Netaji succeded in uniting India and becoming its PM, a divorce was likely to happen.
 

GPM

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The alliance between Netaji and the Axis was a marriage of convenience and nothing else.

If Netaji succeded in uniting India and becoming its PM, a divorce was likely to happen.
The alliance between Stalin and Allies too was like that. Nothing better ie a marriage of convinience which broke almost immidiately after the WW.

I think Netaji was too great to think of a PMship. Anyway Gandhi would have gone on fast against him.

Some people cannot remember the dark realities of that past.
It has become politically and secularaly correct to forget all that bitter history and facts.
 

blueblood

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It is almost laughable how weak Indians have come to grown that they revere a form of political governance rather than the core interest of the nation!! :lol: I cannot believe how the lop-sided democracy we follow here is being worshipped. Democracy is good but Netaji would have been great as a leader. Don't understand why the heck would someone worry about other races and nations around the world. How does it matter whether Imperial Japan and Germany ruled the world? They helped us is all we should care about. How much does the world care about India? Forgot what that swine Churchill did in Bengal? Forgot what Pakistanis did during partition despite being "our own" as the messiah indirectly?

Accept this; the western world only values India today because of the potential of Indians and the significant status we are in today due to the work of every COMMON MAN (not politicians). Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan supported us when we were a nobody more than 60 years ago. That's what we should be care about. The funny thing is, most Indians prefer to bleed for the world when the world doesn't care for us. The first sign of weakness that is not reasonable in modern world.

I am not saying that Netaji would have been what Mauryans were or for that matter any legendary emperors we had, but he would have been a hundred times better than anything we have today. I prefer a clean system rather than a democracy or dictatorship. If dictatorship does that right job rightly, I don't mind it. Ask a road worker what he'd prefer: freedom to spit paan or pee on the road calling this a miracle of democracy OR two full meals a day + a house to live and basic facilities. You'll get your answer.
No one is worshiping democracy in this country. It amazes me that you are worshiping a man, even though a great nationalist but a very weak politician and a nobody when it comes military planning. I don't know what he was thinking when he thought that he could defeat British Indian Army with a handful of soldiers.

Regarding the talk about inspiring the masses and soldiers, soldiers pledged allegiance to the British and I don't want to be around a soldier who breaks his allegiance for some political reasons and trust me neither do you. We suffered a long period of License Raj and a selfish man's foolish schemes to be great just because he was "influenced" by the socialist system. Then imagine another national leader who wasn't "influenced" but is actually a Communist. India would have had become just another communist nation just like some of them who no longer exists. As for your justification for authoritarian rule, we already had our share in the 1977 and it didn't felt good.

As for the Japanese and Germans helping India, they were trying to help themselves because with a sizable part of India under control they might have had recruited Indians to "break free and fight the evil". At the Battle of Berlin, a large chink of the defenders were teens. If it was Netaji, Indians would have been defending Berlin and Iwo Jima.
 

GPM

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Blueblood, of course no one was there out to help India and Indian independence. Not even USA was keen about it. Germany intended to occupy India? what a laughable proposition.
 

tarunraju

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If Netaji ruled India.

* He would have never agreed for the Partition of India.

* We may have ended up with a Military dictatorship, like Burma.

* Half of India would be fighting for succession from India and for the creation of Pakistan.

* Indian Government would have 10 times more blood on its hands.

* We may have collapsed like Soviet Union.
My thoughts, exactly.
 

Tshering22

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No one is worshiping democracy in this country.
Just check the point to which I responded and you will know why I said so. It is the second or third comment of this thread.

It amazes me that you are worshiping a man, even though a great nationalist but a very weak politician and a nobody when it comes military planning.

Funny how you lop-sided democracy zombies are now pointing the same finger at me to escape from the allegation of worshipping a form of governance. You're talking about Netaji being a poor politician: now India has NO nationalist NO leader and ONLY politicians who are screwing the country inside out. :lol: Money of people like you and me are going freely into the hands of these "POLITICIANS" and some people here continue with the weak "chalta hai" mentality.

I don't know what he was thinking when he thought that he could defeat British Indian Army with a handful of soldiers.
Netaji at least had the guts to get out there out of his home and take the initiative to actually fight for his nation and his loyalty to motherland rather than sitting in an armchair and condemning the British like you are mocking the great hero right now. He had the sheer courage, the love and devotion to go out there and take on a world superpower of that time. Netaji founded a parallel government that fought the superpower of that time despite no definite national following in that era when even lee enfields were considered the state of art weapons.

Today's "democratic" government of India would wet its pants if even a nation like Sri Lanka sneezed. That's the difference between Netaji and the Nehru-Gandhi British slave alliance.

Regarding the talk about inspiring the masses and soldiers, soldiers pledged allegiance to the British and I don't want to be around a soldier who breaks his allegiance for some political reasons and trust me neither do you. We suffered a long period of License Raj and a selfish man's foolish schemes to be great just because he was "influenced" by the socialist system. Then imagine another national leader who wasn't "influenced" but is actually a Communist. India would have had become just another communist nation just like some of them who no longer exists. As for your justification for authoritarian rule, we already had our share in the 1977 and it didn't felt good.
You kidding me? Emergency was against the will of the people but everything was so damn organized. All the work in time, people not screwing public property like they do today, no protests, no trouble on the streets, crime became rare etc etc. THIS my friend, is a system. Not the freedom to piss on footpath, drive on the wrong side, honk near a hospital or spit paan on the roads like south Asian "democracy". My father says a lot about emergency period. The only drawback was Indira Gandhi started to later misuse the systematic arrangement of emergency. But it was also a period where Indians were actually being taught how to live in a civilized manner. Singapore, UK, Denmark, Turkey etc all started with an authoritarian rule and moved into democracy, emerging as clean, developed, advanced nations while we continue to progress ahead simply because of common man's work like a zoo.

Are you telling me you seriously don't see the difference? :doh:

Netaji was a national socialist; not a communist as you'd like to imagine. His difference from Hitler's theory was that he did not believe in a superior race theory like Nazis did that's all. There's quite a lot of difference between the two. Goodness! Such is your fascination with this lopsided democracy! I never knew you'd prefer a chaotic, disorganized and corrupt "democracy" over a clean, well-managed, well organized, powerful and systematic authoritarian regime. This is why I said in my last reply, ask the common road laborer or the fresh graduate what he wants.

I also despise Communism as a principle but I am certainly not averse to authoritarian rule by leaders that can actually lead the nation to success. Democracy just doesn't do well in Asia without an authoritarian beginning. This is the reality that most "chalta hai" Indians who don't want to be disciplined and organized will refuse to agree. They never see the bigger picture. Take any Asian country's history and you will get my point. Turkey, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan.. you name it.

As for the Japanese and Germans helping India, they were trying to help themselves because with a sizable part of India under control they might have had recruited Indians to "break free and fight the evil". At the Battle of Berlin, a large chink of the defenders were teens. If it was Netaji, Indians would have been defending Berlin and Iwo Jima.
You really don't see the bigger picture, do you? Just like today, a relationship then was also a relationship of convenience. However, you forget the status INA was as compared to what India is today. We are today one of the most influential countries around the world. Our country is one of the most prominent countries on the map today with every company wanting to enter and grab this massive market. During INA's era, we were NOTHING but lackeys of colonial imperialists just like most Congressiyas are still to the ideology of imperialism. I am aware of Battle of Berlin. Japan and Germany agreed to help INA when it was a non-entity in the world map with no definite nation, funding, weapons industry, economy, etc. THAT, is a big move for two countries that were superpowers long before USA and Soviet Union jumped into the scene.

This would have just been like NATO-- an alliance that benefits both sides. Why are you so apprehensive about Germans and Japanese? Just because you see this from the British imperialist point of view that we are taught in our education system? When it comes to national interests, one doesn't see what the other nation has done to third and other nations. It only is seen as what our nation can gain from and how they can gain from us without harming each other's interests. That is the reality of geo-politics that most Indians cannot seem to get into their heads.

USA has bombed dozens of countries and regions to stone age, destroyed thousands of lives which involved civilians also, Soviet Union slaughtered its own citizens just because of Communist overdose. But did the Nehru-Gandhi gang consider this or does it consider all this before shaking hands with either countries? NO. Because it is always about national interests. NEVER about what is happening to the rest of the world.

You need to see the world a bit more, take a trip around (not for sightseeing but interacting and knowing more) before discussing geopolitics with me. Don't take this as a taunt but as an advice. Trust me, you will benefit a lot in the end.

Nazis were bad to Jews and Japanese were nasty to Chinese... but they were pretty cool with us and that's what we should be concerned about.
 

pankaj nema

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Netaji's fight against the British as was Bhagat Singh's was at best inspirational in Nature.

The DUO of Gandhi - Nehru had by 1945 become the Defacto leaders of the Freedom movement .

The CONSCIOUSNESS of the people of India had accepted the By and large peaceful and MASS freedom movement that had been slowly built up by the Congress Party over the years

So to expect that Indian people would change their preferences overnight and ACCEPT Netaji as the new leader is hard to digest
 

pankaj nema

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The British Indian army was also completely loyal to the British Government Therefore It fought against the Netaji's INA and Japanese army even though the stated goal of Ina was to overthrow the British .

Only AFTER the second World war ended And British still REFUSED to grant freedom that the Mutiny happened in Royal Indian Navy

This Mutiny Of Royal Navy made the British realise that their Rule was over
 
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