IAF lost 29 fighter planes in past 3 years, AK Antony says

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Daredevil, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    NEW DELHI: In the last three years, the Indian Air Force has lost 29 fighter planes including 12 MiG-21s in crashes in which six pilots lost their lives, the Lok Sabha was informed on Monday.

    The aircraft lost in the crashes were 12 MiG-21s, 8 MiG-27s, 4 Su-30MKis, 2 Jaguars, 2 Mirage-2000s and 1 MiG-29, defence minister AK Antony said in reply to a written question.

    "In these accidents, a total of six pilots and six civilians have lost their lives. Apart from loss of lives, 39 civilian properties were damaged. Compensation paid for the loss of lives of pilots and for civilians who were are killed or injured was Rs 60 lakh and Rs 40.4 lakh respectively," he said.

    Answering another query, the minister said the IAF was short of 515 pilots but the available strength was sufficient to meet its operational requirements.

    "The strength of pilots as on 1st March, 2013 is 3410 against the sanctioned strength of 3925. Based on the planned induction of new aircraft and weapon systems in the 12th Plan, about 440 pilots are required to be inducted into the IAF per annum," Antony said.

    Answering another query, the minister said 12,634 acres of defence land is under encroachment and the CBI has registered cases against retired Army officers for criminal conspiracy in dealings related to defence land in Pune and Mumbai.

    To a query on the DRDO, he said a total of 443 scientists have resigned form the premier defence research agency during the last five years.

    IAF lost 29 fighter planes in past 3 years, AK Antony says - The Times of India
     
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  3. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    The rate of crashes is approaching one per month, which must be unacceptable, but that statistic tells little without knowing cause and other factors. I found this DoD report from 2000.

    Defense.gov News Release: DEFENSE DEPARTMENT ACCIDENT RATES REMAIN LOW

    Fiscal Year (FY) 2000, which closed out Sept. 30, 2000, was one of the safest years on record for the Department of Defense.

    The DoD-wide military Class A aviation accident rate was 1.23 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours for FY 2000
    as compared to 1.54 Class A mishap rate in FY 1999, a 20 percent reduction.

    It seems mishaps per 100,000 flight hours is more significant that crashes by calendar time.
     
  4. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    A document which discusses investigation and data of US military aviation.

    It appears your Web browser is not configured to display PDF files. No worries, just click here to download the PDF file.

     
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  5. Maharana

    Maharana Regular Member

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    This is really shameful. Absolutely humiliating.
     
  6. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    is it due to lack of maintenance

    or cheap spares


    or lack of good training

    or natural reasons
     
  7. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    All the above, Except good training..
     
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  8. datguy79

    datguy79 Regular Member

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    Why India still uses the Bisons i will never know?

    Even we retired them 2 decades ago.
     
  9. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    MIG-21 Bis and Bison form the back bone of IAF interceptor and CAP wings..
     
  10. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Why do we still fly Mirage F1? Because induction of expensive aircraft is too slow.
     
  11. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    I read that IAF retires the last of them in 2015.
     
  12. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    we??? what u mean by we?? does ever canada had mig 21 bison??? or u r talking else
     
  13. datguy79

    datguy79 Regular Member

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    I understand that induction takes time, but is it really necessary to fly them in peacetime?
     
  14. datguy79

    datguy79 Regular Member

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    No the Afghans, the NA had an air branch in the 90s though i don't recall them using bisons.

    Canada is similarly stuck with an aging F-18 fleet. :tsk:
     
  15. shom

    shom Regular Member

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    This is why we have not retired Bisons,,
    MiG-21 Bison
    Upgraded version for export, the Indian Air Force being the first customer. Equipped with the Phazotron Kopyo (Spear) airborne radar, which is capable of simultaneously tracking 8 targets and engaging 2 of them with semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles, such as the Vympel R-27. The radar also enable the fighter to deploy active radar homing air-to-air missiles such as the Vympel R-77 when an additional channel is incorporated. Russia has claimed that this version is equivalent to the early F-16. It performed well against F-15s and F-16s of the USAF during Indo-US joint air exercises.
    Source:- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 variants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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  16. shom

    shom Regular Member

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    Added to this :-
    Alright this is not about Indo-Pak jingoism, but this is just an aeronautical speculation. Here are the upgrade specifications of the MiG-21 Bison ready to arm the IAF :

    The upgrade consists of Super Kopyo X-band pulse Doppler radar and
    RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder) beyond visual range missiles and PGMs., new nosecone, new canopy, single-piece windshield and new canopy made of stressed acrylic
    composites, Sextant's TOTEM RLG-INS with NSS-100P GPS embedded GPS
    receivers, El-Op HUD, infrared search and track system (IRST) from Russia's
    URALs optical-mechanical plant, two Sextant MFD-55 LCD displays, autopilot,
    radar warning receivers (RWR), digital flight data recorder, new liquid
    air cooling system, HOTAS controls, stores management system, digital air
    data computer system, short range radio navigation system, new HF/VHF/UHF
    radios, twin conformal Vympel flare dispensers (26mm, 120 rounds) and a new
    electric power supply system. Reportedly the new RWR to be fitted, is an
    indigenous system developed by DRDO and goes by the name Tarang. A modified
    version of this RWR will be used aboard the Su-30MKI.

    That is not all, apart from carrying the deadly AA-11 "Archer" that arms the MiG-29 and longer range AA-10 Alamo BVR AAMs, Bison pilots will have the SURA helmet mounted sight, used by Flanker pilots. Now with this combination, it would mean that the MiG-21, flying faster than all F-16 variants would “schlemm” an F-16 as well as the Luftwaffe MiG-29s did.

    Any more doubts dear friend,,,,,,,,,,
     
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  17. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    It is necessary for write off. You want to fly them every hour possible so you don't waste hours on newer aircraft. If you do, you will have to write off your new air-frames far sooner. France has good maintenance schedules and spare chains to keep old F1s and SEMs flying without incident. India does not have that luxury.
     
  18. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    mate the reason behind this is that IAF has around 200 Mig-21 of different models among which around 125-140 are Mig-21Bisons which forms the backbone of the interception wing of IAF.secondly if we retire all those aircrafts suddenly then the IAF squadron strength will fall to an all time low of around 25 squadrons where as the sanctioned strength of IAF is around 39.5 squadrons.
    secondly all but one of the 12 Mig-21 which crashed during the last 3 years were Mig-21Bis(the version we had been operating for the last 25 years).now the second most venerable aircraft in the IAF inventory is the Mig-27 Bahadur which forms the base of the CAS wing of the IAF.these aircrafts should be retired asap as they have crossed the limit of their effective lives a long time ago.but then again they will be retired once the Rafales start to get inducted in nos.!
     
  19. average american

    average american Senior Member Senior Member

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    Rumble Over Russian Aircraft Reliability
    by James Dunnigan
    March 10, 2013

    The Indian Air Force lost another of its Russian made Su-30MKI jet fighters on February 20th. This is the fourth loss since 2009. Two years ago the commander of the Indian Air Force took an hour-long flight in one of India's Su-30MKI to reassure Indian pilots that the Su-30MKI was safe. Two had crashed in 2009, due to mechanical failures and there were widely publicized reliability problems with the engines and many of the other Russian designed and built components of the aircraft.

    Indian pilots are understandably nervous about the safety of the many Russian warplanes they fly. The MiG fighters are the most dangerous but the more recent Su-30 models were believed to be a lot safer. Recent problems indicate this may not be the case, thus the 2011 flight by the head of the air force.

    The MiGs are still crashing, with a MiG-27 going down on February 12th. India has lost so many MiG-21 fighters that it is trying to retire this type of aircraft as quickly as possible. Over the last half century, India has bought 976 MiG-21s and over half are gone, mostly because of accidents. While India was something of an extreme case in this area (other users don't fly their MiG-21s as much), it's been typical of MiG aircraft. All this is part of the decline of the once feared, and admired, MiG reputation. Starting in World War II (the MiG-1 entered service in 1940), through the Korean War (the MiG-15 jet fighter), and the Cold War (the MiG-17/19/21/23/27/29), MiGs comprised the bulk of the jet fighters in communist, and Indian, air forces. But after the Cold War ended in 1991, the flaws of the MiG aircraft (poor quality control and reliability, difficult to fly) caught up with users, in a big way. In the last few years most of the bad news about military aircraft reliability, accidents, and crashes has involved MiG products. For example, all Indian MiG-27s have been grounded several times in the last few years because of suspected mechanical problems. These fears are not new. The MiG-27 and Cold War era Russian warplanes in general do not age well.

    Last year India went public with yet another complaint about the Russian made Su-30 fighters. That was about an unspecified "design flaw" in the electronic flight control system for the aircraft. This bit of information was made public because India found that more discreet communications about these matters results in little or no action from the Russians. For example, India has been pressuring Russia for several years to do something about component failures in the Russian designed AL-31 engines that power the Indian Su-30MKI jet fighters. There have been several AL-31 failures because of this in both Indian and Russian Su-30s. The latest accidents indicate that the problems remain.
     
  20. average american

    average american Senior Member Senior Member

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    Russia Rearms With Crap
    by James Dunnigan
    March 11, 2013

    As expected, it’s recently become more difficult for the Russian military to buy foreign weapons. This is because last November president Putin dismissed the Defense Minister and the Chief of the General Staff. The dismissed minister (Anatoly Serdyukov) had been brought in five years earlier to reform and revitalize the armed forces. He was the first civilian to head the ministry (which had always been led by a retired general). This angered a lot of vested interests, especially in the defense industries. Most of these organizations merged or disappeared after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 (which brought with it an 80 percent decline in defense spending). The surviving defense industry managers have convinced Putin that the kind of rapid reform Serdyukov sought is not possible or desirable.

    The new Defense Minister did not cancel existing foreign arms purchases but did try to renegotiate some of the terms. All this is at the behest of Russian arms manufacturers and their political allies. This has made many of the troops unhappy. Many military leaders want Western quality weapons, either from Russian firms or from Western manufacturers. Now Russian troops will have to make do with less capable “Soviet” style weapons. The problem is that a lot of these Russian made weapons suck and efforts to get Russian manufacturers to shape up have not been entirely successful. Putin was convinced that this was not a problem because the Russian nuclear forces are still in good shape and capable of keeping invaders out. The military is effective enough to deal with patrolling the borders and dealing with outlaws in the Caucasus.

    Many military reforms will continue, adapting the smaller, post-Soviet forces to many Western innovations (brigade centric organization, battlefield Internet, and improved training). But the Russian forces will continue to have second rate gear, the kind that Russian manufacturers can produce and that won’t threaten the jobs of Russian workers. This means less importing of foreign weapons, except when it means getting new technologies for stuff to be built in Russia.

    What’s at stake here is the $900 billion the government has pledged to spend in the next decade to replace the many aging (and often not very good when new) Cold War era weapons. The troops wanted better weapons, like Western forces have. The Russian arms firms and politicians wanted most of that money to stay in Russia and, given the degree of corruption, in their pockets.
     

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