Hindustan Trainer HTT-40

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Ganesh2691, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. Ganesh2691

    Ganesh2691 Regular Member

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    While Swiss firm Pilatus Aircraft begins confirmatory flight checks on India’s first PC-7 Mk.II propeller trainers in Switzerland, HAL has launched the first metal cut for its own turboprop ab initio trainer aircraft, the HTT-40, that will augment the PC-7s and progressively replace the HPT-32 Deepak, that remains grounded. According to HAL, “The programme is governed by a strict time frame and ARDC is all geared up to meet the challenge. Key achievements include completion of preliminary design phase (PDP), finalisation of numerical master geometry (NMG),completion of preliminary wind tunnel testing, design of major frames and system finalisation.”

    HAL is still to finalise an engine for its platform. The first flight of the HTT-40 is likely to take place by early 2014. With Tejas running into interminable delays and HAL’s intermediate jet trainer (IJT) HJT-36 Sitara also in trouble, there will be a glaring focus on whether HAL manages to stick to time-lines on even a basic aircraft like the HTT-40. The company’s reputation may be on the line to deliver a simple propeller trainer on or before time, considering that it has already taken on board infinitely more complex projects, including the fifth generation fighter aircraft, which will require actual input from the company’s designers and engineers.

    HAL conducts first metal-cut on new turbo trainer | idrw.org
     
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  3. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    [​IMG]

    Company concept of the HAL HTT-40
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_HTT-40
     
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  4. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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    HTT-40 now dead, the IAF's Rs 2,900 crore buy of 75 Pilatus PC-7 Mk II could rise to 181 trainers

    MoD rejects HAL’s proposal to build basic trainer

    “Why should we pay HAL Rs 60 crore per basic trainer, when we can buy proven trainers from abroad for Rs 30 crore?” said a top MoD official to Business Standard.

    “We would be willing to pay higher rates to build indigenous capability in strategic defence equipment. But can HAL argue that the capability to build basic trainers is strategically vital,” noted the official.


    Broadsword: MoD rejects HAL’s proposal to build basic trainer
     
  5. sasi

    sasi Senior Member Senior Member

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    Money spent on R/D went down to blackhole .
     
  6. cloud_9

    cloud_9 Regular Member

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    What extra R&D you need to do to make a propeller plane...when you are already in the process of making Helicopters and jet fighters.
     
  7. Patriot

    Patriot Senior Member Senior Member

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    This the high time for the disinvestment of HAL to Indian corporate only. HAL can't continue to enjoy tax payers money which couldn't even deliver a basic trainer. This organisation has failed to develop & retain competencies in it's core activity. HAL does not deserve it's survival with the current work culture & unprofessional approach.
     
  8. Decklander

    Decklander New Member

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    It is really shocking that HAL is not able to deliver a small turbo ac which are made as home builts in US & Europe.
     
  9. Sam2012

    Sam2012 Tihar Jail Banned

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    W.G.Ewald likes this.
  10. cloud_9

    cloud_9 Regular Member

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    My interpretation of Indian manufacturing sector is that most of the guys are really smart when it comes to publishing paper and research but some how they fail when it comes down to real world scenarios.
    I used to work for Heat and Control as a drafts person (junior) and we had a design office in Chennai.Some of the guys were really smart and educated but they always had issues on the practicality bit with the designers at our office...who mostly started their career as a Tradesman.
     
  11. Coalmine

    Coalmine Regular Member

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    Will induct indigenous HTT 40 planes in large numbers: IAF chief

    [​IMG]

    Indian Air Force will induct indigenous HTT 40 basic trainers in “large numbers”, which will boost the domestic capability although it was earlier keen for a Swiss aircraft.

    The country was looking at having a fighter aircraft under ‘Make in India’ initiative which will be a “big ticket project”, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Raha said at a seminar on Thursday.

    Talking about the opportunities in the aviation sector, especially for domestic companies, he said, “IAF will induct HTT 40 basic trainers in large numbers soon”.

    Defence sources said the IAF has committed to purchasing at least 70 of these aircraft.

    The Hindustan Turbo Trainer-40 (HTT-40) had on May 31 made its maiden flight after much delay.

    The aircraft, the prototype of which was rolled out in January, is aimed at being used for the first stage training of all flying cadets of the three services.

    While the HTT-40 programme was almost junked during UPA rule, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar pursued both IAF and HAL to ensure development of the trainer.

    IAF had blocked funding for the HTT-40 by telling the Defence Ministry that the aircraft would be “too expensive, heavy and that it will not meet their need”.

    IAF had backed a Swiss trainer, the Pilatus PC-7 Mark II.

    The Air Force had purchased 75 of Pilatus in 2012 under a controversial deal but the requirement was for over 106 more planes.

    Parrikar had cut this down and cleared a plan to purchase another 38 of Pilatus aircraft. However, the contract is still stuck on pricing issues.

    Raha also said maintenance and rehaul facilities of aircraft and its engines is still in infancy in India and it needs to grow. He said the private sector should get into it.

    The IAF chief reminded those present at the seminar that there is a lot of opportunities because of the legacy of aircraft that the force operates.

    http://indianexpress.com/article/in...40-planes-in-large-numbers-iaf-chief-3007990/
     
  12. LTE-TDD

    LTE-TDD Regular Member

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    Haha, great HAL!

    Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2017
  13. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    doo doo doo, another HAL bites the dust.
     
  14. Coalmine

    Coalmine Regular Member

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    Guys is there any response from Hal. Hal may develop on there own for H&D

    Trishul blog reporting that HAL intends to use Pratt and Whitney PT6 engines.
     
  15. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    at least they are trying their level best in developing state of the art arms and weaponry for the Indian Armed Forces!thats what really matters!
     
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  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It is time to tell the DRDO that they have to wake up and smell the coffee and quit acting like public sector lumbering white elephants ordered to be humoured!
     
  17. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Both HAL and DRDO should be fully or partially privatise
     
  18. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Not undertaking HTT-40 project forward will mean repeating same HTT-35---> HPT-32--->Pilatus-7MKII story all over again.

    We all know that trainers are not like fighters and they wear far quickly than frontline fighters, especially the BPT kind. And in organization like IAF (which trains around 500 pilots yearly with each recording over 60 hours on BPT) it is like 30000 hours divided by 100 (maximum possible operational BPTs in IAF at any time) equals to 300 hours on each BPT per year. Now add to it routine test flights (flown for the purpose of system validation after routine maintenance and occasional breakdowns) in addition to number of hours flown by instructors for training new instructor trainees.

    For what i can estimate, BPT's life expectancy is not much more than 20-25 years in general. And even if PC-7 MKII is advance, it will surely require life extension upgrade (possibly including engine replacement) after 20 years. Since they are SWIS made, HAL is out of equation. So who will IAF go for upgrade? Surely Pilatus? Considering high labor cost as one of many cost escalating reasons, one can easily estimate how much MILKING ( you heard it twice, don't you) IAF will do then of tax payer's sack?

    In contrast, if HTT-40 is given go ahead even as a slow 10 year project then by that time (20-22 years from now) IAF would at least have an option of buying a new BPT in place of old PC-7 MKIIs -- requiring heavy up-gradation-- which might just turn out be costlier (in terms of money spent for gaining X hours of air frame life).
     
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  19. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Not undertaking HTT-40 project forward will mean repeating same HTT-35---> HPT-32--->Pilatus-7MKII story all over again.

    We all know that trainers are not like fighters and they wear far quickly than frontline fighters, especially the BPT kind. And in organization like IAF (which trains around 500 pilots yearly with each recording over 60 hours on BPT) it is like 30000 hours divided by 100 (maximum possible operational BPTs in IAF at any time) equals to 300 hours on each BPT per year. Now add to it routine test flights (flown for the purpose of system validation after routine maintenance and occasional breakdowns) in addition to number of hours flown by instructors for training new instructor trainees.

    For what i can estimate, BPT's life expectancy is not much more than 20-25 years in general. And even if PC-7 MKII is advance, it will surely require life extension upgrade (possibly including engine replacement) after 20 years. Since they are SWIS made, HAL is out of equation. So who will IAF go for upgrade? Surely Pilatus? Considering high labor cost as one of many cost escalating reasons, one can easily estimate how much MILKING ( you heard it twice, don't you) IAF will do then of tax payer's sack?

    In contrast, if HTT-40 is given go ahead even as a slow 10 year project then by that time (20-22 years from now) IAF would at least have an option of buying a new BPT in place of old PC-7 MKIIs -- requiring heavy up-gradation-- which might just turn out be costlier (in terms of money spent for gaining X hours of air frame life).
     
    Kunal Biswas likes this.
  20. Twinblade

    Twinblade Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/iaf-diluted-al-least-12-benchmarks-for-trainer-aircraft-113072901068_1.html

    Different standards for domestic and imported products. Haven't we heard this before.
     
  21. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    What I have noticed with arms procurement:
    • Requirements remain unheard of for years, and they suddenly pop-up the moment a foreign made item is available.
    • Quite surprisingly, the capabilities of that foreign made item closely matches the requirements.
    • A cavalcade of "experts" throng defense sites, and scratch each others' backs while promoting these foreign items.
     
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