Genocide of Indians in America

Discussion in 'Americas' started by The Messiah, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Democracy existed in the Americas long before the Europeans invaded

    An elder with the Mi'kmaq Nation, Dr. Daniel Paul, spoke with the VoR and revealed some of the true yet hidden history of the American Indian people, few of whom remain after the worst genocide in the history of all mankind. The Indians of the Americas practiced Democracy for centuries before the Europeans invaded and even the US Constitution was written based on Indian principles. The Indian people were a peaceful people who lived lives based on honor, mutual respect and reverence for the land.

    This rare interview may give you a glimpse into a once proud and great nations, which are now gone.

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    Hello! This is John Robles, I’m speaking with Dr. Daniel N. Paul. He is a Mi'kmaq elder and an Indian historian.

    Robles: Hello Sir! How are you this evening?

    Paul: I’m very good, thank you.

    Robles: Thanks for agreeing to speak with me. My first question – what was it like for the Indians when the Europeans first landed in North America?

    Paul: When the Europeans first invaded the Americas, well, you have to go back when Columbus got lost and landed in what’s today called the Caribbean and attacked the Taino people there. That began the onslaught that was unstoppable from that point on. At that time the Mi'kmaq, for instance, probably had one of the highest standards of living in the world. Our people were well-fed, they had access to an ocean that was abundant, an area, their land base, was teeming with wildlife.

    And our civilization was very advanced in humanities. We had such things as divorces and marriages and all the rest, child care, elderly care and so forth and so on. And the system was based on honor and the leadership of the Mi'kmaq nation, and most of the North American nations were democratically elected by the people. And in comparison the Europeans, at that point in time, the vast majority lived under kings and queens and other aristocratic despots. They had very little freedom and they were ruled with iron hands. So, there was a big difference.

    Robles: So, would you say democracy began with the Indian nations?

    Paul: Democracy was well-practiced in the Americas before the Europeans even knew what democracy was. For instance the United States Government, in 1988 I believe it was, passed a resolution recognizing the fact that their Bill of Rights and the Constitution was copied in a large part from the indigenous people of the Americas and the practices they had, in particular the Iroquois.

    Robles: Can you tell us a little bit about that?

    Paul: Well, the Iroquois had what is called the Great Law of the People and it spelled out how the people rule. It is quite a document, but essentially it spelled out the democratic principles that a nation should operate under, given: power to the people.

    Robles: The true history of the Indian people has been hidden, not only by governments in North America but by governments all over the world. Can you tell us some of the facts that have been hidden?

    Paul: Well, there are lots of facts. The biggest fact that’s hidden in this day and age, is that: when the Europeans first invaded they created a lot of propaganda about the people that were living here and depicted them to be bloodthirsty savages and uncivilized people and so forth and so on. And their story telling was so great that they believed it. In fact it was completely wrong. If the people of the Americas had been such terrifying warriors and what have you: How come the Europeans were able to dispossess the people of two continents?

    The fact was that Europeans came here as, what I would call, barbarians, in the sense that they came well-armed and they were well-equipped to fight people who really had no weaponry comparable to what the Europeans had. And the reason why the Europeans developed such lethal weaponry was simply because they were fighting among themselves for centuries and had invented better ways to kill one another. And when they brought that over to this side of the ocean, it was… our people didn’t stand a chance. You’ll never hear that taught in school. It is well-hidden and the people here were peaceful people, and if the Europeans had come and interacted friendly with the people here, there would never have been any bloodshed spilled.

    Robles: Can you give us an example how Indian tribes would resolve conflicts for example for territory? I remember hearing some stories about that and I thought it was very interesting.

    Paul: There were some wars, there is no question about it. But the best I can tell you is; most of the civilizations on this side of the water were based on personal honor. People were taught to honor the elders from the time they were born and to respect one another, and the Great Spirit was of course the keystone among the people, believing in a higher power. Disputes were solved simply: one of the best things I ever read was simple that two men were having an argument between them, they were mad at one at another, so the Chief went to one of them and said: “Do you intend to hate him for the rest of your days?” and he said; “No!” and then he went to the other and asked him the same question. He said: “No”, and then he said: “Why don’t you get together now and get it over with and forgive one another, and that’s it?” And they did. And life went on as normal.

    One thing you have to keep in mind when you are talking about North American civilizations, “Civilizations of the Americas,” greed was unknown, personal accumulation of wealth was unheard of. People didn’t know what that kind of thinking was about. And when you are looking at collecting gold and silver and what have you, that was something that was never a big factor in the civilizations on this side of water.

    Robles: Can you tell us some of the things about Indian society and Indian culture that might be interesting to listeners?

    Paul: Well, one of the things, I think perhaps not too many people would know about is simply the fact that these civilizations that existed in 1492, when Columbus got lost, were civilizations that were well-advanced in their own right. They were people who had developed a way of living. The Mi'kmaq society for instance, it was what I would call a Use Society. And from the time you were born and as you grew as a child you were taught to respect all your friends and neighbors and entire community and to put your community first before your own personal needs.

    So, people worked together for the joint welfare of everybody, for the bountiful welfare of everybody and everybody prospered together. So there was no fighting among themselves to gain power or gain wealth, or anything like that, that was something that was unheard of. And the worship in the creator was something that they lived on. It was religion based on nature, they believed that the Great Spirit was in their people, in the trees and in the earth and in everything else. So, it was a civilization that worked quite well.

    And I don’t think that at this point in time you could reinvent that kind of thinking among the people, or re-instill it because we are so corrupted by the European God that was imported into the Americas and that is greed. Greed is something that is very destructive and our people were doomed because they had no concept of what greed was, they couldn’t understand it. When you are looking at, Chief Sitting Bull him making a statement that if North America had been twice as large as it is, it still wouldn’t have been large enough for the Europeans, they still would have wanted it all.

    Robles: You were listening to an interview with Dr. Daniel N. Paul. He is an elder with Mi'kmaq. Thanks for listening.

    Stay tuned to the Voice of Russia for part 2 of this interview.

    Democracy existed in the Americas long before the Europeans invaded - Mi'kmaq Elder - News - Society - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video
     
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  3. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Indians were classified as wild animals - exclusive interview

    This is part 2 of a three part interview regarding American Indian History.

    Robles: Can you give us an idea of how many tribes there were in North America when the Europeans invaded?

    Paul: In what’s Canada today, there were 34 different tribes and different nations. So, when you are looking at what’s the United States and Mexico and put them all together, I would imagine you are looking at probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 100-140 tribes. In NorthAmerica, that’s North America.

    Robles: Can you tell us: what do you make of Columbus saying that they discovered America? I’ve always had a big problem with that. They discovered a land where… there were already people populating it.

    Paul: Columbus discovered nothing! Okay? He didn’t discover America; America was here for a long-long time. And there is evidence that people resided in the Americas for up to 25,000 years now. So if Christopher Columbus is 25,000 years old, maybe he did discover America. And brought some invaders with him at the time but he certainly did not. I’ll put it this way my friend: if I need a new car, and you happen to park yours, and I go out and discover your car, what do you call that?

    Robles: Of course theft, it’s stealing.

    Paul: When you discover something that belongs to somebody else and you take it, I think you are committing theft. And when you kill a large amount of people in the process of stealing something, I think that’s called genocide.

    Robles: That’s right. You wrote a very well written piece about the first Thanksgiving and the real history behind that quote; “holiday” in the US. Can you give us some other examples and tell us a little bit about Thanksgiving?

    Paul: Columbus Day, in particular is the biggest lie, he didn’t discover America. And the Thanksgiving business was one of the biggest fairytales of all times. What actually happened was that the tribes of that area; what’s called New England and Massachusetts, where the Puritans landed and set up shop, they were very friendly people, and these people, when they set up shop there, began to farm and what have you and they were starving and the native people fed them and helped them out. And 20 years after, the Chief, who was the prime leader in helping these people survive, had his sons captured by these same people and sold into slavery.

    There is a lot of misinformation out there: most people think that the first slaves that were sold in the Americas were people from Africa, and the actual fact: it’s not true. The merchandise that was sold in a lot of the slave markets in the earlier part was mostly the indigenous peoples from the Americas.

    Thanksgiving is nothing but a fairytale, it is being enhanced. You tell a story and it invariably goes on and by the time and it gets around the world and gets back to you, it is a different story altogether. And the friendly interaction between the Europeans, the Puritans, and the tribes of that area never occurred. As a matter of fact there were scalp proclamations issued for many of them and there were massacres that happened. At one fort, in what is now Connecticut, was burnt to the ground and over 900 men, women and children were slaughtered in that particular area. So, the great interaction between the American Indian and the European is a lot of hogwash.

    Reminder

    Robles: I’ve read that at the actual Thanksgiving, they were actually giving thanks that is was so easy to slaughter the Indians and take their lands, is that true?

    Paul: That’s more or less what is it all about. There is an old saying: “God help the oppressed! When the oppressed become the oppressor.” The puritans were being oppressed in England and when they came here, they saw their chance they became the oppressors of the people who, I guess extended an olive branch to them, when they first landed and helped them survive. So, really there is a great deal of treachery involved in the history of the Americas that is never talked about.

    Even here in Nova Scotia, in Canada, there were three scalp proclamations issued for the Mi'kmaq by the British. The first one was in 1744, the Mi'kmaq had the fort Annapolis Royal surrounded and the governor of the fort at the time, sent a message to Governor William Shirley of the Mass Bay colony asking for assistance and he responded by declaring war upon the Mi'kmaq. And in that declaration he put a price on the heads of men, women and children, for their scalps. The scalps of men, women and children.

    Robles: For the scalps of Indians. So, the whole scalping thing, that was something that the Europeans pretty much though up.

    Paul: Scalping was going on in Europe for a couple of thousand years. It is not something that was invented on this side of the ocean, by no means.

    Robles: I see, that is one of the biggest fables I think. Now you mentioned slaves a minute ago. I know Indians were treated much worse than the African slaves that were brought over. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

    Paul:Well, the fact was that the slaves that they took from here, the indigenous people on this side of the ocean, didn’t stand up to mistreatment all that well, and a lot of them simply died on their owners, which made them unsuitable for that purpose. So, then they looked around for a new source and they decided that the Africans would do it and that’s when they started importing boat loads of people from Africa and sell them on slave markets here in America.

    Robles: Why weren’t blacks annihilated?

    Paul: The blacks were a property, and they had a property value. So, naturally the owners didn’t go out and slaughter them or anything like that because they’d be expending their own money. But they eventually classified our people, the indigenous people of the Americas, as wild animals with no value. So, they could go out and kill an Indian and not expect to suffer any consequences from anybody. You wouldn’t be sued for killing a “property”, if you went and killed somebody’s slave, you were probably sued and would have to pay to the owner of the slave money for destroying their property.

    Robles: Could a society that was based and started in that way, could it ever be called democratic or free, or fair?

    Paul: All these societies in the Americas, with very few exceptions, were built on genocide, on the slaughter of the indigenous people, the people who were wiped out. Some people put the estimate, for the Caribbean Taino people for instance, at being somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 to 10 million when Columbus landed there, within 50 years they were practically extinct. So, when you are looking at the overall total: it is almost unbelievable.

    Close

    Dr. Daniel Paul is an Indian Historian and an elder with the Mi'kmaq Nation

    Indians were classified as wild animals - exclusive interview - News - Society - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video
     
  4. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    The genocide of the American Indians was the worst ethnic cleansing in history

    In the third and final part of an interview with Indian Historian and Mi'kmaq elder Dr. Daniel Paul, the discussion continues regarding the genocide of the American indigenous peoples. Dr. Paul discusses the disingenuous "apology" by the US Government which was attached to a Defense Bill, the continued suppression of the real history of North America in the school systems of the continent and the continued institutionalized racism Native Americans face.

    Robles: Could a society that was based and started in that way, ever be called democratic or free or fair?

    Paul: All the societies in the Americas, with very few exceptions, were built on genocide, on the blood of the indigenous people. People were wiped out. Some people put the estimate for the Caribbean Taíno people, for instance, as being somewhere in the neighborhood of 5-10 million when Columbus landed there, but within 50 years they were practically extinct.

    So when you are looking at the overall total, it is almost unbelievable, and they talk about barbarism, people don’t discuss it too often but the Spaniards were using human flesh to feed dogs. And scalp proclamations were one of the favorite things of the English here in the Americas, putting a price on the heads of men, women and children. And then the spreading the smallpox was another thing they used quite liberally in trying to eliminate populations. And then simple starvation, after they destroyed most of the food sources of the indigenous people and trading patterns, the people lived in a state of malnutrition and many were starving to death, and when you get to that state, even a common cold could be fatal to you.

    So, our population in the Americas was reduced, I would say, almost by 90% by time it was all over. And even in this day and age the Mi’kmaq, for instance, in Nova Scotia were down to 1,400 in 1850 and that stayed around the same until the 1940s, and then the Canadian government began to get a little bit of a conscience, or what have you, and started improving health services and food rations and so forth and so on. And today our population is up to about 25,000 now. We’re slowly but surely making a comeback.

    Robles: How are the other tribes faring in Canada and in the United States?

    Paul: The United States has owned up to the atrocities that went on there, there’s an apology I believe, that was issued by the Congress in 2010 but it’s what I call a silent apology. It was never broadcast around the world or anything like that and it was part of a Defense Procurement Bill that went through the Congress. But when you are looking at the overall thing, that is not what we need done in these countries. What we have to see is that they change curriculums and began to place in those school curriculums, the real history of the peoples that were here before the Europeans invaded. And I don’t call it discovery, I call it an invasion.

    It was an invasion by people that were superiorly armed and they brought their wars to the Americas. The French and British were fighting almost constantly on this side of the water, at the same time fighting constantly on the European soil. So, they didn’t bring peace and prosperity to the indigenous people in the Americas - we already had that. And we all had good standards of living and some people like to believe that all our ancestors were standing along the shores of the Americas, cheering on the Europeans for coming over and saving them and civilizing them and so forth and so on, which is a pile of bull.

    Reminder

    Robles: You mentioned the Taíno, I’m part Taíno Indian myself, why are groups such as the Taíno listed as being extinct when actually some people exist?

    Paul: What’s happened here is, there are probably even some Beothuk, some people with some Beothuk blood in them. But when you can’t find a member of a tribe that is full-blooded, that is the point where you would call that tribe extinct in the sense that they are no longer with us in that sense, the Beothuk, for all intents and purposes, were wiped out. I believe there may be a few people around with some Beothuk blood in them but they didn’t live in the traditional way or what have you.

    Robles: Can you describe a little bit the present state of the tribes in Canada and the United States?

    Paul: We live under a state of systemic racism. In the United States and Canada you can’t have open discrimination against us anymore such as they had 30-40 years ago but we are still not viewed as equals in these societies and we are not treated as equals, and we are still seen by the vast majority of the people here, because of lack the lack of education, as people that came from barbarous tribes, savage tribes and not as people who came from civilized a community.

    So, until we can overcome that kind of perception and like I said before, change curriculums in schools and begin to teach the truth, we still got a long way to go before we are treated as people who have come from civilizations that had every right to continue to exist and prosper in this world, and stop demeaning our people in the sense that we were never a civilized people, where in fact, we were.

    And how to get that information out? It is slowly happening, it is going to take a long time and at the rate we’re going, I think we’ll be at it for a couple of centuries before we really make that final step. And one of the biggest steps has to be acceptance by Europeans that the genocide of the American Indians, the indigenous people of the Americas was probably one of the worst mass ethnic cleansings that this world has ever known and begin to make that part of history lessons, and so forth and so on.

    There were great civilizations on this side of the water, there were rural civilizations, there were hunter-gathers civilizations, there were city dwellers and what have you, and all these. And how many people in Americas or around the world know that fact? Very few. And the reason that they don’t know is because it’s not taught.

    Robles: By the ancestors of the people who committed genocide on them.

    Paul: That’s right.

    Robles: Thank you very much. I really appreciate you speaking with me.

    The genocide of the American Indians was the worst ethnic cleansing in history - interview - News - Politics - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Vi
     
  5. TrueSpirit

    TrueSpirit Senior Member Senior Member

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  6. lookieloo

    lookieloo Regular Member

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    :rofl: Pretentious hipsters can go cram it up their collective ass. Excluding Antarctica, every last cm^2 of territory on the planet has been taken from someone, by somebody else, at some point. I suppose some internationalist crybabies will eventually be demanding restitution for those with traces of Neanderthal DNA, seeing as their ancestors were most likely killed off by the rest of us Cro-Magnons.
     
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  7. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Not to mention that native Americans were not so saint as some try to show them in such light.

    There were very brutal conflicts between tribes, when even women and children were not safe.

    I think that there were some good books about this but I was never interested much in native Americans history and don't remember titles.
     
  8. Tolaha

    Tolaha Senior Member Senior Member

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    This would be similar to saying that the Polish were no saints while discussing what the Germans or the Soviets did to them during the wars!

    Each and every part of the world colonized by the Europeans, we are led to believe, were populated by people who were involved in human sacrifice, ignorant, barbaric etc etc and the arrival of the Europeans uplifting those masses. While conquerors do have a reason to portray the positive aspects of their genocides, why would a Polish citizen blindly latch on to the theories circulated by the British/French/Spaniards/Portuguese/(fill in the other barbarians that I missed)?
     
  9. Raj30

    Raj30 Senior Member Senior Member

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  10. Satanist

    Satanist Tihar Jail Banned

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    Good. Now do not complain when America loses its precious spot of Global Superpower and plays second fiddle to China. So you cram your US propaganda up your ass.
     
  11. Satanist

    Satanist Tihar Jail Banned

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    True, the Poles were no saints. Look at how they suppressed Ukrainian nation before WW2 and how their Armija Krakowa did basically nothing preventing the genocide of 3 million Polish Jews. Later after the war, the Christian Poles seized jew property and in some instance even killed any returning Jews. Great heroes all around!
     
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  12. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Of course we were not saints, who said you we were? For Germans we were like deviles, for Soviets also. ;)

    Then perhaps you should stick PRC propaganda up your ass.

    PRC is not a well developed country, life standards for simple peasants are primitive to say it polite, even in my small country peasants and farmers live in far much higher life standards.

    Typical talk of typical historical ignorant and moron.

    Please explain me how Ukrainians were supressed if they were part of nation, and were considered as very good citizens despite very obvious ethnic internal problems in a multinational state? Not to mention that Ukrainians living as citizens of 2nd Republic never were discriminated on purpose by other nations and state.

    Compare this to a genocide from glorious Soviet Union made on Ukrainians by literally starving them to death, which is typical for socialist states, among them PRC.

    Also explain me how relatively poorly armed AK would help whole 3 million Jews hmmm? Not to mention that AK despite poor resources and other problems they had, did everything they could to help as many people as possible.

    But hey, why should I teach history of my country to some Chinese communist xxxxx?

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  13. Ash

    Ash Regular Member

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    History is written by the victors
     
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  14. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Maybe because I am not blind, and I have far better understanding of the world and human nature?

    If we replace Europeans with Indians, Chinese or Africans, the results would be exactly the same, some people would die, some would live less wealthier life, some would be very rich, some would be very healthy, there would some good men, and some bastards as well.

    Human nature is not different if someones is "white" or "black".

    "White" people have just this luck, they were more resorcefull and ambitious to conquer as many lands as possible, and like all humans, there were made good things, and mistakes, sometimes tragic. But it does not change a fact, that history would be similiar if for example Indians would start conquering the world, or Chinese. We would also see attrocities, some dead people etc.

    What is completely dumb is a faith of some people from developing countries, that they would be absolutely better than these damn "whites".
     
  15. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Why because China is the paragon of justice, fairness, respect for minorities?
     
  16. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Native Indians have been reduced to performing circus stunts in there own land.

    Of course no one is a saint but point here is that usa goes around the world preaching human rights, democracy etc while propagating that they have a higher moral ground which is nonsense.
     
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  17. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    And the best solution to this collective brutality was killing them all off. 10 points to Gryffindor.
     
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  18. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Maybe. But invasion does not necessarily include genocide of the native people. This was a European specialty.

    A bad example. Neanderthals were not murdered in a systematic fashion. Hell, no one knows how they went extinct. Keep in mind that the topic is genocide of the natives in Americas not the invasion.
     
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  19. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    And who said that all of themw ere killed? Some tribes disappeared by being absorbed by other tribes or by white population through cross marriages, other tribes survived to these days, and some tribes dies because were incapable to adapt to new situation, and there was not nececary any direct involvement of white colonits in this.

    This is just typical and false demonization of colonists, even despite many of them were honest, hard working people, while many natives, instead of choosing productive and hard work and trying to create some positive relationship with colonists, choose a path of war or worse, criminal path, because it was easier and didn't included a very hard work.

    Not everything is so simple, and trying to show natives in a good light only is just unfair.

    Typical manipulation. What about Mongols, they were also Europeans, and they had a nasty habit to kill these who they conquered?

    And what genocides on purpose Europeans made during colonisation period?

    This is a typical myth, to demonize Europeans/Whites and show in only good light natives... you know how this is called? Propaganda.

    Of course, some natives didn't survived, but their problems were not mostly created by Europeans on purpose, for example illnes and lack of adaptation to European illnesses, but who back then could know about such things eh?

    It is easy to make judgement right now, but both scientific knowledge back then and mentality were different.

    Today we might think some things were wrong, but back then people might have think otherwise.

    Says a man whos idol, Che Guevara, is one of the most sadistic murderes in history of mankind. :)
     
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  20. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    :dafuq: :confused:
     
  21. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    As I expected...
     

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