General VK Singh turning into a loose canon

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Jagdish, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. Jagdish

    Jagdish Regular Member

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    CHANDIGARH: Former Chief of Army Staff General VK Singh recently said in Amritsar that the Indian army had initially refused to carry out Operation Bluestar to flush out militants from Golden Temple. Moreover, he said, sending army to the Golden Temple was a political and not a military decision. None of the dramatis personae involved in the plot are alive today to refute what he said. Also, the General needs to know that all the decisions including the military decisions in a democracy all primarily political. Even going to the war is political and not a military decision.

    The General has mostly been in the news for all the wrong reasons. He did it while in the service and being the Chief of Army Staff by raising a controversy over his age trying to make everyone in the country believe that he was one year younger than he was mentioned in his records, which incidentally he had done himself.

    Now again, post retirement, nourishing a grudge and grievance against the Congress led UPA government that his age was not lowered down by a year so that he would be the COAS for one year more, he has joined the bandwagon of the team Anna and the Aam Aadmi Party. Besides, he also shared dais with former Haryana Chief Minister Om Prakash Chautala, again known more for wrong rather than right things.

    Having developed a knack for news that has turned into an obsessive addiction now, the General once again stirred a controversy that the Indian army was not in favour of launching the operation Bluestar to flush out militants from Golden Temple. He has the audacity, which he nevertheless always has, to claim that the then COAS Gen AS Vaidya had refused to send his troops into the Golden Temple and the then Prime Minister Ms Indira Gandhi had forced him to do so.

    Gen Singh knows it too well that neither Gen Vaidya, nor Ms Gandhi or any other person involved in the decision making at that level is alive today. Even General K Sunderji, who headed the Western Command during the time of the operation, is no more. Rightly nobody has taken Gen Singh’s claims seriously and dismissed these with the due scorn these deserve.

    At the same time it is highly unbecoming of General Singh to have come out with such a controversial statement that seems to be far from the reality. Never ever has this been substantially established that the Indian army was reluctant to carry out the operation. Moreover, Singh being the 1970 batch officer was too junior in 1984 to be privy to any decisions taken by the army. He has no authority to speak after 29 years of an operation which was necessitated, rather thrust on the nation.

    The retired general needs to exercise restraint. He has crossed all the limits of decorum, decency and discipline required of a former soldier and the COAS at that. Gen Singh, by playing to the gallery is tarnishing the image of the country and the army alike.

    He needs to be told that in a democracy all decisions are political and even the military decisions like going to the war have to be political only and not military. Let us hope that General Singh thinks before he speaks lest he puts his foot in his mouth the way he has put now. When he cannot speak with conclusive proof and evidence he should better keep quiet. What he is trying to do is simply selling the presumptions as facts which is unacceptable.

    General VK Singh turning into a lose canon Punjab News | Breaking News | Latest Online News
     
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  3. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    He is retired and not in the army and he has the right of free of speech, If someone doesn't like shut there TV and dig a hole and live inside it, General Sir should understand he is outside army without protection, It better go ahead with books like General Malik ..

    Talking of politics, It is obvious in last 60 years in form of judgements and scams involving nation security that how well politics is being played for personal gain above country and people and Men in Uniform..

    There is nothing more to add..

     
  4. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Ex-General is in politics now, he will be attacked, dismissed and rejected. That is pack and parcel of his choice.
     
  5. Jagdish

    Jagdish Regular Member

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    He has put his views , there are more issues which have tained Armed force than EX.VK singh being vocal for ex: Adarsh scam , Choppergate etc

    General Malik has different personality & General VK Singh has different , u can't expect every one to act the same as General Malik

    Same Democracy allows people like Owaisi , Parveen togadia to give hate speech . What's wrong if Ex Army chief speaking out his heart it may be politically biased but no one is lilly white here in this world
     
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  6. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    Yes, Con-gress will attack the general for exposing Saas-Damaad nexus!

    However, where is the media hit squad for attacking Italian family and cotrie for looting this nation??
     
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  7. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Speaking out is not necessarily getting into politics, Unless some one politicized the matter into ' NO' solution..

    These are just views, Views which are made into political matter by political elements and not looking into the real issue..
     
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  8. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    I personally think he should and I was not saying that, I expecting General VK Singh to do so..

     
  9. Jagdish

    Jagdish Regular Member

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    I think he should be political against politicians & be himself not follow others footstep , this is my personal view
     
  10. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Internal Security is a matter in which the civil Govt can order the Army into action.

    I would only remind that Gen Bikramjit Singh mentioned it so in this address at the India Today Conclave.

    If one look at the Maoists, Khalistan, NE, Kashmir, then all that are political problems or even a social or religious problem and not really a military problem.

    And yet each threaten the territorial integrity and the sovereignty of the Nation!

    Therefore, the State has to act to ensure its entity and the peace and law and order and make safe the other law abiding citizens who have to be Constitutionally protected.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
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  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Lose (lz)


    v. lost (lôst, lst), los·ing, los·es
    v.tr.
    1. To be unsuccessful in retaining possession of; mislay: He's always losing his car keys.
    2.
    a. To be deprived of (something one has had): lost her art collection in the fire; lost her job.
    b. To be left alone or desolate because of the death of: lost his wife.
    c. To be unable to keep alive: a doctor who has lost very few patients.
    3. To be unable to keep control or allegiance of: lost his temper at the meeting; is losing supporters by changing his mind.
    4. To fail to win; fail in: lost the game; lost the court case.
    5. To fail to use or take advantage of: Don't lose a chance to improve your position.
    6. To fail to hear, see, or understand: We lost the plane in the fog. I lost her when she started speaking about thermodynamics.
    7.
    a. To let (oneself) become unable to find the way.
    b. To remove (oneself), as from everyday reality into a fantasy world.
    8. To rid oneself of: lost five pounds.
    9. To consume aimlessly; waste: lost a week in idle occupations.
    10. To wander from or become ignorant of: lose one's way.
    11.
    a. To elude or outdistance: lost their pursuers.
    b. To be outdistanced by: chased the thieves but lost them.
    12. To become slow by (a specified amount of time). Used of a timepiece.
    13. To cause or result in the loss of: Failure to reply to the advertisement lost her the job.
    14. To cause to be destroyed. Usually used in the passive: Both planes were lost in the crash.
    15. To cause to be damned.
    v.intr.
    1. To suffer loss.
    2. To be defeated.
    3. To operate or run slow. Used of a timepiece.
    Phrasal Verb:
    lose out
    To fail to achieve or receive an expected gain.
    Idioms:
    lose it Slang
    1. To lose control; blow up.
    2. To become deranged or mentally disturbed.
    3. To become less capable or proficient; decline.
    lose out on
    To miss (an opportunity, for example).
    lose time
    1. To operate too slowly. Used of a timepiece.
    2. To delay advancement.

    Loose

    loose (ls)
    adj. loos·er, loos·est
    1. Not fastened, restrained, or contained: loose bricks.
    2. Not taut, fixed, or rigid: a loose anchor line; a loose chair leg.
    3. Free from confinement or imprisonment; unfettered: criminals loose in the neighborhood; dogs that are loose on the streets.
    4. Not tight-fitting or tightly fitted: loose shoes.
    5. Not bound, bundled, stapled, or gathered together: loose papers.
    6. Not compact or dense in arrangement or structure: loose gravel.
    7. Lacking a sense of restraint or responsibility; idle: loose talk.
    8. Not formal; relaxed: a loose atmosphere at the club.
    9. Lacking conventional moral restraint in sexual behavior.
    10. Not literal or exact: a loose translation.
    11. Characterized by a free movement of fluids in the body: a loose cough; loose bowels.
    adv.
    In a loose manner.
    v. loosed, loos·ing, loos·es
    v.tr.
    1. To let loose; release: loosed the dogs.
    2. To make loose; undo: loosed his belt.
    3. To cast loose; detach: hikers loosing their packs at camp.
    4. To let fly; discharge: loosed an arrow.
    5. To release pressure or obligation from; absolve: loosed her from the responsibility.
    6. To make less strict; relax: a leader's strong authority that was loosed by easy times.
    v.intr.
    1. To become loose.
    2. To discharge a missile; fire.
    Idiom:
    on the loose
    1. At large; free.
    2. Acting in an uninhibited fashion.
    [Middle English louse, los, from Old Norse lauss; see leu- in Indo-European roots.]
    loosely adv.
    looseness n.
    Synonyms: loose, lax, slack1
    These adjectives mean not tautly bound, held, or fastened: loose reins; a lax rope; slack sails.
    Antonym: tight


    It is loose and lose cannon.

    Punjab News sure requires an English knowing editor badly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
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  13. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Then why not use ARMY to get rid of the maoists?

    When asked to General Singh, he said that Army cannot kill its own people. What happened during Operation Bluestar, the Army cooperated with the GoI then, but now why is the Army not getting in to bring an end to the maoists?
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Killing own people does not mean that when used for Internal Security or COIN, people will not be killed. It means wanton and needless killing is a big No No. And hat the Army should be used as the last resort when there is internal disturbances since it is basically an instrument of the Govt to combat foreign aggression and not for quelling internal strife, which is the task of the Police and the Central Police Forces and that is why we have so many huge Police organisations, which otherwise, prima facie, appears to be 'ration paro-ing' (consuming ration and doing fanny adams!)

    Indeed Maoist can be taken on by the Army. However, it has become fashionable to use the Army for every task that the Police and Central Police Forces should be trained and motivated to do.

    Internal Security is the Army's secondary task and not the primary task. Internal Security is the Primary task of the Police and the Central Police Forces.

    It will be observed that the Army is used in COIN in areas which are on the Frontier, be it the NE or Kashmir. This is because the insurgencies in the areas close to the frontier can be a threat to the guarding of the frontier itself!
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  15. Jagdish

    Jagdish Regular Member

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    Paramilitary force should be more structured than what it is now , they should have specific operation capabilities & role to play , the wholw para force should be commanded by a General or LT General equivalent Officer inturn he should report to Home minister

    Border patrol , COIN Operation , Anti Terror , Urban warfare , Coastal security, Industrial security, Airport security, VVIPS & Consolute security etc

    Eg: BSF , ITBP etc for border patrol during peace , they should not be used for COIN operation BSF was used in Kashmir & ITBP is deployed in Kabul , Nepal etc for providing security to embassy & consolute

    They should have a common & large Air wing called Paramilitary aviation corps , now we have BSF air wing , Coast guard air wing etc which just adds on the misery of cost escalation , maintenance & duplication of job

    This is my personal view :thumb:
     
  16. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Very strange to say that when CPO strenth has risen to be 2.5 times that of the Army. In recent times only they have raised more than 300 battalions.
    Following Kargil committee report the GoM had recommended bifurcation of internal security and External threats. Consequently, there is a full fledged Internal Security Division in MHA.

    So does Army come into internal thraet management when a sizable chunk of Indian resorces is being spent on CPO for this purpose?

    Why the clamour to deploy Army in Naxal areas?

    If Army is deployed as the last resort then why should there not be special provisions such as AFSPA?

    There are enough people (may be like you) who would like Army to be blunted everywhere but MHA will raise further 300 battalions in the name of internal security.

    The game should be straight. Those responsible who are given such huge money be held accountable. Why Army ??

    Is not it ?? Then where do Gen VK or Vikram fall into it.
     
  17. Jagdish

    Jagdish Regular Member

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    Army should not be used in COIN operation be it kashmir or north east , Paramilitary force has improve & take over from Army effectively since Army primary role is safeguarding border during Wartime

    Secondary is internal security , but they can contribute to by training Paramilitary force eg: jungle wafare school in Chatisgarh

    Army should move in only as last option
     
  18. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    He is a bitter old man trying to discredit the government that threw him under the bus. Two wrongs do not make a right and it is certainly not actions benefiting an officer of his stature.
     
  19. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    CRPF, the primary Internal Security Force is a mamoth organisation :


    (B) Supervisory & Support Establishments


    1. Zone -4
    2. Adm Sectors -16
    3. RAF Sector -1
    4. CoBRA Sector -1
    5. OPS Sectors -2
    6. Adm Ranges -42
    7. OPS Ranges -7
    8. Group Centres -39
    9. Central Weapon Stores -3
    10. Arms Workshops -7
    11. Static (Mobile Workshops) -3


    (C) Filed Formations/Units

    1. Attached Battalions -189
    2. Mahila Battalions -3
    3. RAF Battalions -10
    4. CoBRA Battalions -10
    5. Signal Battalions -5
    6. Special Duty Group -1

    (D) Training Institutions

    1. Internal Security Academy -1
    2. CRPF Academy -1
    3. Central Training Colleges -4
    4. Recruit Training Centres -5
    5. Counter Insurgency & Anti-Terrorist School (CIAT ) -2
    6. CTC (T & IT) -1

    (E) Hospitals

    1. Composite Hospital (100 Bed) -4
    2. Composite Hospital (50 Bed) -17
     
  20. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Look How Many Lt Gen / Maj Gen equivalant posts does CRPF holds in HQs only

    Officers Holding Key Post
    (a) At Force Head Quarter
    Shri. Pranay Sahay, IPS Director General
    Vacant Spl. Director General ( Ops )
    Shri P.V.K.Reddy, IPS Addl.Director General ( Hqr)
    Vacant Addl.Director General (Works)
    Shri Vivek Dube , IPS Addl.Director General ( Trg)
    Shri T.S.Kripanidhi, ADAS Financial Advisor
    Shri Pankaj Kumar Singh, IPS Inspector General of Police (Ops)
    Shri Shailendra Kumar Inspector General of Police (Estt.) (Functioning as IG Comn & Works )
    Shri Ravi Prakash Mehrda, IPS Inspector General of Police ( Pers)
    Vacant Inspector General of Police (Prov)
    Shri Ranjit Singh Inspector General of Police ( Trg)
    Shri Sant Ram Panthi Inspector General of Police ( Adm)
    Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh, IPS Inspector General of Police (P.T.D.)
    Shri Umed Singh Inspector General of Police ( Int)
    Dr A.K.Dhawan
    Director Medical


    (b) At Field Formation
    Shri D. K. Pathak, IPS Spl. Director General, J&K Zone ,Jammu
    Vacant Spl. Director General, NE Zone, Guwahati
    Vacant Spl.Director General,Central Zone,Kolkata
    Vacant ADG, Southern Command, Hyderabad
    Shri V. S. Yadav, IPS Inspector General of Police, Srinagar
    Vacant Inspector General of Police, Central Sector, Lucknow

    Shri Vishnu Vardhan Rao IPS


    Inspector General of Police, Tripura Sector, Agartala [Functioning as IG Jharkhand Sector]

    Shri Zulfiquar Hasan, IPS
    Inspector General of Police, O/O Spl. DG, NE Zone, Guwahati [Functioning as IG, Chattisgarh Sector]

    Shri Satendra Pal Singh Inspector General of Police, M&N Sector, Imphal
    Shri Ajit Kulshreshtha Inspector General of Police, North Eastern Sector, Shillong
    Vacant Inspector General of Police, Northern Sector, New Delhi
    Vacant Inspector General of Police , CoBRA , New Delhi
    Shri N.C. Asthana , IPS
    Inspector General of Police (Ops), Kashmir , Srinagar (Functioning as IG, Prov Dte.)
    Shri R.N.Misra
    Inspector General of Police, RAF, New Delhi
    Shri N.R.K.Reddy, IPS Inspector General of Police, Southern Sector, Hyderabad
    Shri B.N.Ramesh, IPS


    Director / Inspector General of Police , ISA, Mt. Abu
    Shri Vivek Sahay, IPS IG, Eastern Sector, Kolkata

    (Functioning as IG (OPS), W/B

    Vacant IG, O/O Spl. Director General, Central Zone, Kolkata

    Shri M. P. S. Negi Inspector General of Police (Ops) Jorhat Assam
    Shri Daya Ram Inspector General of Police, MP Sector, Raipur
    Shri Nalin Prabhat, IPS Inspector General of Police, Western Sector, Navi Mumbai
    Shri M.K. Sinha Inspector General of Police, Bihar Sector, Patna
    Shri Kulbir Singh Inspector General of Police , NWS, Chandigarh

    Shri Gurender Jit Sing Inspector General of Police, Jammu Sector, Jummu
    Shri H.R.Singh Director / Inspector General of Police, CRPF Academy, Kadarpur
    Shri K.S.Bhandari Inspector General of Police, O/O Spl.DG, J&K Zone,Jammu

    Vacant Inspector General of Police, Jharkhand Sector, Ranchi
    Shri M.S.Raghava Inspector General of Police, Rajasthan Sector, Jaipur
    Shri K.Arkesh Inspector General of Police, Chhattisgarh Sector, Raipur
    Shri Sanjay Kumar Agarwal, IPS Inspector General of Police, Odisha Sector, Bhubaneshwar
    Shri S.N.Sabat, IPS Inspector General of Police, West Bengal Sector, Kolkata ( Pleased at C/Sector Hqr LKW)
    Shri S.S.Sandhu Posting to be decided
    Shri Rajendra Prasad Pandey Posting to be decided
     
  21. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    At the last count, 221st battalion of the CRPF has been raised.
    The BSF has 173 battalions,
    the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) has 55 and the
    CISF, which is not deployed on the battalion pattern, has the total force strength of 1,33,000 personnel.
    While the CRPF alone has around 4,000 cadre officers, the combined officer strength of all the CPMFs/CAPFs would be around 10,000. Put together, this is too large a number to remain unemployed !!

    By ignoring genuine grievances of the CPMFs, the government is imperilling itself


    What are they meant for if not internal security and policing jobs ///
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013

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