future of INS Viraat after it's retirement may be at 2018

[Payeng]

I dont know how much we want to change. But i guess we are quite happy with their weapon system in INS Jalashwa. IMO Americans dont gamble by putting inferior systems in their carrier.

For Aegis we need 10000 tons destroyer but currently we have none in that class. Also IN is always gunning for indigenous system so they could go for AD-1 and AD-2 rather than Aegis.

Can you tell about naval LCH ? As far as i know HAL told they can make a naval version if IN wants one. I am not sure they have started to work on it.

Purchase terms disallow use in war, permit American onboard survey

In accepting the Pentagon's condition that the ship should not be used for "offensive deployment" but only for relief

So the Jalashwa is not a warship but a relief ship

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Lets say its a training ship for future upcoming vessels..

 

[Payeng]

Yes exactly, India will need LHD and amphibious assault ships to complement CV for future power projection and it will help in designing a doctrine for such kind of future ships, instead of more then two aircraft carriers I would have suggest such class of ships for the navy to mobilise a few battalion strength commando troops towards war zone, Aircraft carriers without sufficient escort ship can be vulnerable in a face off situation, with the current strength of 8 destroyers and 12 frigates, I don't think it would be a good idea to increase aircraft carriers in the fleet, either ships would be engaged defending the CV or the CV will be vulnerable otherwise.

On the other note the US is believed to keep strings attached with her military tradings.

 

[plugwater]

The 20mm CIWS is a good weapon coz its radar is based inside CIWS it self where AK-630 radars are separated making things complicated, And other weapons are 50cal MG and a MH-60..

But 20mm CIWS is no match for newer Kashtan twin 30mm CIWS which is we are installing on Vikramaditya..

The deigning is already started its no big deal, The only thing will be different is folded tail..

Present naval Dhruv can fold its blade so does N-LCH will be, whats needed is folded tail..

We are not installing any CIWS in vikramaditya now. CIWS will be fitted only in 2017.

Isn't a better option to use heavy attack chopper in assault ships than lighter one ? They can add more punch to the offensive forces.

Add the folded tail with folded rotor too in the modifications needed for naval LCH .

 

[plugwater]

Yes exactly, India will need LHD and amphibious assault ships to complement CV for future power projection and it will help in designing a doctrine for such kind of future ships, instead of more then two aircraft carriers I would have suggest such class of ships for the navy to mobilise a few battalion strength commando troops towards war zone, Aircraft carriers without sufficient escort ship can be vulnerable in a face off situation, with the current strength of 8 destroyers and 12 frigates, I don't think it would be a good idea to increase aircraft carriers in the fleet, either ships would be engaged defending the CV or the CV will be vulnerable otherwise.

On the other note the US is believed to keep strings attached with her military tradings.

We will have enough ships to escort our carriers by the time we finish them.

We will start to construct 7 new frigates and 3 destroyers and some corvettes after the modernization of our shipyards. Using modular ship building we can build them much faster than our current speed.

 

[Parthy]

Usually the metal of the hull becomes rusted and so it loses its properties and also becomes thinner. They use an echo system to gauge the thickness of the hull if it goes beyond some measurement the ship is considered unfit but our carriers are definitely over used and need to be retired.

I agree to GK.. The alloy steel plate used in ship building like DMR has its own life time.. Over a certain period of time the alloy loses its tensility.. Restructuring the AC is much time consuming than building a new AC. Am not sure like still how many years Viraat's tensile structure will stand together...

 

[Payeng]

We will have enough ships to escort our carriers by the time we finish them.

We will start to construct 7 new frigates and 3 destroyers and some corvettes after the modernization of our shipyards. Using modular ship building we can build them much faster than our current speed.

The Rajput class Destroyers are nearing its retirement days, the Godavari and the Nilgiri class Frigates too, most of them will serve only as a replacement for the retired warships, with current planning and approval from CCS it doesn't seems to be in the very near future with the current availability of warship construction capacity in the nation which is believed to be running in full capacity and behind schedule not to mention the lengthy sea trails before commission. But still hopes are their that by the time IAC-2 begins construction more warships will be planned, current constructions will not add muscles to the Navy in a sizable manner.

 

[agentperry]

getting a prestigious position in the dockyard as a museum along with its aircrafts. humiliating position is either getting scrapped or put in reserve and finally using it in test of a anti-ship missile.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

She very prestigious ship, she was flag ship in Falkland war, When given to IN she reamin as Flag ship of this navy..

I dont Know, Vizaq is best ?

 

[plugwater]

The Rajput class Destroyers are nearing its retirement days, the Godavari and the Nilgiri class Frigates too, most of them will serve only as a replacement for the retired warships, with current planning and approval from CCS it doesn't seems to be in the very near future with the current availability of warship construction capacity in the nation which is believed to be running in full capacity and behind schedule not to mention the lengthy sea trails before commission. But still hopes are their that by the time IAC-2 begins construction more warships will be planned, current constructions will not add muscles to the Navy in a sizable manner.

If you notice the displacement of latest frigates and destroyers have increased, this is to increase the firepower of each vessels, so to tell IN will have same firepower is wrong imo.

Latest talwar and shivalik can compensate our retiring ships. I think Rajput class can go another upgradation before retiring.

P-15A will be 7000+ tonnes and P-17B will be 6000+ tonnes. I am sure there will be some plans to make 10000 ton vessel for ABM. We just need to wait to see what IN is planning.

Once modular shipbulding is implemented we can build ships much faster also many private shipyards can help in building ships.

 

[ace009]

Can American allow us to fit Indian, Russian, Israeli hardware instead of American ?

They dont..

Actually, USA never sells it's supercarriers to any other country - for obvious ToT issues. Not even it's closest allies like the UK, Canada or Australia will ever get a supercarrier from the USA. Much less India.

 

[Tshering22]

No if any refit is possible the it should be refit but after decommissioning and then given to any interested party or ally, I look at Vietnam.

I don't think it is capable enough to handle any more service, Yusuf. Think about it; we got a decommissioned one, did some jugaad and then got it back on track to work. Now even we used it for so long; I think it is time we simply also scrap it. Viraat has served our country long enough.

Vietnam will have little used of a full blown carrier like Viraat without Harriers. Even their new Migs and Sukhoi MKVs are useless to be launched from Viraat.

Let the old warhorse rest in peace. .

 

[Payeng]

If you notice the displacement of latest frigates and destroyers have increased, this is to increase the firepower of each vessels, so to tell IN will have same firepower is wrong imo.

Maybe u got me wrong, I am not comparing firepower of Individual warship what I mean to say is the total numbers of ships at disposal for CBG formation as well as other formation, if all/most of the destroyers and frigates are going to escort the aircraft carriers their might be no or little ships (destroyers/Frigates) available for other purpose like frontline defense or offensive attack without an aircraft carrier involved, or marine patrolling during wartime.

I think Rajput class can go another upgradation before retiring.

General perception is that a warship retires in around 30-35 years life span in service, but if in case its life span is increased is can become another point for discussion, on the other hand I believe the decision for extension of service of INS Viraat is not taken from an economical POV, as IN dont want to sit without an aircraft carrier around so thier was no way around other then refitting the old carrier, which I believe would have been retired if a replacement would be available.

P-15A will be 7000+ tonnes and P-17B will be 6000+ tonnes. I am sure there will be some plans to make 10000 ton vessel for ABM. We just need to wait to see what IN is planning.

Point is not just tonnage weight we will need more warships for 3 CBG and other formations.

 

[tarunraju]

I hope they don't sell it. I hope they turn it into a floating museum docked permanently at Mumbai. Major navies have turned their old boats into floating museums.

The US Navy has an old carrier-turned-museum docked along the Californian coast. It would be funny that just as China is building its first carrier, India has spent so much time with one, that it's turned it into a museum.

 

[ace009]

IMHO, INS Viraat should be put into a naval base and used to train IN personnel. The newly upcoming IN marines can be trained on it and when IAC 1,2 and 3 are ready, the Vikramaditya can be given to the Marines for their air defense ship.

 

[plugwater]

Maybe u got me wrong, I am not comparing firepower of Individual warship what I mean to say is the total numbers of ships at disposal for CBG formation as well as other formation, if all/most of the destroyers and frigates are going to escort the aircraft carriers their might be no or little ships (destroyers/Frigates) available for other purpose like frontline defense or offensive attack without an aircraft carrier involved, or marine patrolling during wartime.

By 2015 we will have 2 carriers, consider if we use two destroyers and three frigates and some corvettes for a CBG then i dont see any problem with the number of vessels. we will have minimum 9 frigates(talwar and shivalik) and 6 destroyers(delhi and kolkata) so i guess we have enough ships to do other missions too.

General perception is that a warship retires in around 30-35 years life span in service, but if in case its life span is increased is can become another point for discussion, on the other hand I believe the decision for extension of service of INS Viraat is not taken from an economical POV, as IN dont want to sit without an aircraft carrier around so thier was no way around other then refitting the old carrier, which I believe would have been retired if a replacement would be available.

Exactly, if we feel we need more ships means Navy wont think twice to extend their life for some more years. It suits for escort ships too not only carriers.

Point is not just tonnage weight we will need more warships for 3 CBG and other formations.

Navy has plans to operate only two CBGs not three.

 

[Armand2REP]

Viraat was laid down in 1944. That steel is 60-67 years old today, and well over 70 by 2018. There is no future for the ship except as scrap. It should have been decommed years ago.

 

[mahesh]

Viraat was laid down in 1944. That steel is 60-67 years old today, and well over 70 by 2018. There is no future for the ship except as scrap. It should have been decommed years ago.

if Viraat was came into service in 1944 hobiously it will be old enough to be retired but time after time it was given new major parts and life extension repairs. latest one was replacing the whole hull!!. which i think is 5th major repairing and replacement was done, all in India....

i wonder it can be made into a unique destroyer or frigate (i guess).
but honestly doing so will damage the reputation and the respect which it deserves for serving the country.
let it be a symbol of pride to Indian navy and rest in a harbor for rest of life. (even maintaining it in harbor as a show piece or museum, might cost a lost i think)

 

[Payeng]

By 2015 we will have 2 carriers, consider if we use two destroyers and three frigates and some corvettes for a CBG then i dont see any problem with the number of vessels. we will have minimum 9 frigates(talwar and shivalik) and 6 destroyers(delhi and kolkata) so i guess we have enough ships to do other missions too.

read my previous posts for better clarification.

Exactly, if we feel we need more ships means Navy wont think twice to extend their life for some more years. It suits for escort ships too not only carriers.

Why are ships decommissioned? because it has lived up its economic service life anything beyond this will result in a strain in the budget, commissioning a new ships becomes more feasible then life extension of the older ones. INS Viraat is a different story. Read my previous post for better clarification.

Navy has plans to operate only two CBGs not three.

read my previous post for better clarification.

Wish you a Very happy Independence Day.

 

[Armand2REP]

Dies Viraat have any battle history in the IN?