From Brampton to Bangladesh, anti-Hindu hate is all too real

[Tronic]

I dont think Tronic supports secession of India to form a Khalistan.

But one thing I get is..like many Sikhs, he is insecure about Hinduism in Punjab and thinks it is out to devour Sikh religion...There, Tronic, I said Sikh religion...

I'm not insecure about the Sikh religion or even Hinduism. I'm only insecure against right wing groups, no matter if they are Sikh, Muslim or Hindu. I have spoken against the former two quite openly in this forum and elsewhere, but the moment I get to Hindu right wing I get chaps like Galaxy (and even yourself at times), jumping for my throat. I won't discriminate, and I have repeatedly said, right wing breeds right wing, over and over again; so much so, that I should just make it my sig!!

 

[Yusuf]

I am seeing more and more of Paki mentality these days. "we are victims and the world is against us and wants to get us".

All extremists have the same mentality and logic. Propaganda tactics is the same, only the name of the religion changes.

 

[pankaj nema]

OK people let us accept for a while that STILL there are a few thousand Khalistani supporters
amongst the sikh community both in India and in Canada / UK

What is the harm in accepting the truth

SO WHAT !!!

What they can do except vent their frustrations on the internet

The HINDUS of Manipur and ASSAM ie ULFA want to break away Kashmiris want to break away

Christian missionaries are looking forward to convert tens of millions of poor Hindus

ISI has many supporters amongst Indian muslims such Indian Mujahideen and SIMI

Why should we live in a denial mode and in a worried state that there are
many people living inside India out to harm India

WHat can ALL these jokers achieve

 

[Yusuf]

Yes they are trying to harm India, not hinduism. Using the "bogey" of Hinduism is only part of the separatist propaganda to achieve their aim, just like the Pakis use it for their animosity towards India.

 

[pankaj nema]

As far as Sikhs are concerned the the Khalistani movement FLOPPED
simply because Sikhs COULD NOT trust Pakistan

AN Independent Khalistan was a NON starter ,Merger with Pakistan was like asking for suicide

So the ONLY option was and is INDIA ; warts and All ( read HINDUS )

SIkhs even at the height of Khalistan movement were sceptical about the whole idea

 

[ejazr]

I have said this on another forum and will say it here. Jonathan Kay is not a balanced writer and I would go on to say that he seems to have graduated from Muslim bashing articles to Sikh bashing now.

Why should we as Indians depend on other people living OUTSIDE India tell us what we think of each other? The Rajona episode is a "ghar ka mamla" and we should resolve it internally.

Sure there is anti-Hindu sentiment in western countries among some people, but then the anti-Muslim sentiment is much much more and people actually are killed for just "looking like" Muslims forget even actually being from the Muslim faith. But would I expect Mr. Kay write about how real anti-Muslim hate is? I dont' think so.

 

[SADAKHUSH]

I think you guys need to cool down and take deep breath, if there is any support among Sikh population it is due to the injustice for the massacre of Sikhs after Indira Gandhi's murder. I hear it on the radio talk shows from time to time. Overall large majority of our Sikh brothers and sisters are for united India. They have seen the real face of ISI thugs. It is for GOI to do the right thing by bringing people in front of Indian Judicial system which will help heal the wounds. We should try to look at ways to accept our mistakes and make sure they are not repeated.

 

[Galaxy]

There was reason why i said Khalistani supporter/sympathizer. I accused Tronic of being Pro-Khalistani ideologist. It was not only about breaking India which is dead long back for some good reason but there are many shades in that. It was all about Khalistani extremism Vs State that also Congress. It had nothing to do with Common Sikh and Hindus. My concern was few people (I call Khalistani ideologist mainly living in western countries) tried to change into Sikh Vs Hindu which was never the case nor it's today. Most of the Canadian/British and some Indian Sikhs are brainwashed with such thing. These people are doing such Anti-Hindu campaign and talking of Rightist Hindu group to make it equal=equal and to justify their cause since very long time.

Whatever happened in 84 was not riot but sponsored killing by Congress goons who are still roaming free. This is what i always said. But why Sikhs din't ask for justice from Delhi/Punjab and Central Government ? I see half of Sikhs actually supporting party.

If Justice was denied, Blame to Congress Government but why doing propaganda against Hindus and talking Non-sense of rightist Hindu group which has very less presence in Punjab ? Few people play "victim card" and ask few things....Then all of a sudden, they talk of Hindu groups. Those Khalistani ideologist are doing nothing but just spreading venom against Hindu everywhere. Fortunately, Majority of Hindus don't take it seriously till date. But when you keep spreading hate, Things will turn and people will start thinking that many Sikhs (including Canadian/British) as anti-Hindu and also Anti-national and whole purpose of seeking justice/demand will be dead. I saw Guru Teg bahudur image in RSS Shakha. They always talk of Sikh guru in very high regard and common Sikhs as brothers of Hindus. This is what i understood and came to know from RSS. Many Sikhs are also part of RSS. Indeed, They have a separate sister organsation only for Sikhs. Rashtriya Sikh Sangat. Why turning the thing in wrong direction ? Hindus don't have any issue with Sikh, then why target some Hindu groups which is largest in the country and also against Hindu without any reason which will force many people to turn negative against Sikh in long run?

 

[panduranghari]

I have not seen any hatred against Sikh at all in my whole life.

Word.

I agree.

 

[Tronic]

It was not only about breaking India which is dead long back for some good reason but there are many shades in that. It was all about Khalistani extremism Vs State that also Congress. It had nothing to do with Common Sikh and Hindus. My concern was few people (I call Khalistani ideologist mainly living in western countries) tried to change into Sikh Vs Hindu which was never the case nor it's today. Most of the Canadian/British and some Indian Sikhs are brainwashed with such thing. These people are doing such Anti-Hindu campaign and talking of Rightist Hindu group to make it equal=equal and to justify their cause since very long time.

Right from the start, the only people who changed this into a Hindu-Sikh issue were right wing extremists on both sides. The mere fact that a thread was opened by you on this mere premises further supports that fact. The Hindu-Sikh issue is but a footnote in this whole affair, and instead of grabbing at the wider picture, you just can't get off the extremist right wings who, I have said since the start, form a tiny majority in this whole affair.

Whatever happened in 84 was not riot but sponsored killing by Congress goons who are still roaming free. This is what i always said. But why Sikhs din't ask for justice from Delhi/Punjab and Central Government ?

They didn't??? When have they ever stopped asking for justice?

I see half of Sikhs actually supporting party.

Because;

1.) Everyone wants to move on for a better future.

2.) Because Congress, despite the bad blood, still has a far greater ideological appeal to Sikhs, who by nature are secular, and not right wing, than any other party.

If Justice was denied, Blame to Congress Government but why doing propaganda against Hindus and talking Non-sense of rightist Hindu group which has very less presence in Punjab ?

Because that's what far right groups do. Your very own Hindu right wing does the exact same spreading propaganda and hatred against other communities. Ironical that only when you are getting the same treatment, it hurts, but you support your own chaps doing it to others. Hypocrisy.

Few people play "victim card" and ask few things....Then all of a sudden, they talk of Hindu groups. Those Khalistani ideologist are doing nothing but just spreading venom against Hindu everywhere. Fortunately, Majority of Hindus don't take it seriously till date. But when you keep spreading hate, Things will turn and people will start thinking that many Sikhs (including Canadian/British) as anti-Hindu and also Anti-national and whole purpose of seeking justice/demand will be dead.

It's your own bias which makes you think that way. RSS spreads so much intolerance against independent Sikh beliefs, yet, I have never seen common Sikhs claim Hindus as anti-Sikh, only your beloved RSS.

I saw Guru Teg bahudur image in RSS Shakha. They always talk of Sikh guru in very high regard and common Sikhs as brothers of Hindus. This is what i understood and came to know from RSS.

What a nice gesture.

However, the problem starts when your "RSS Shakhas" go a bit further and start claiming that Sikh Gurus worshiped Hindu dieties, as RSS has printed against Guru Nanak.

Now that is not respecting someone's beliefs, that is trying to enforce your own beliefs onto others.

Many Sikhs are also part of RSS. Indeed, They have a separate sister organsation only for Sikhs. Rashtriya Sikh Sangat. Why turning the thing in wrong direction ?

Now we are again entering the realm of fantasy. Rashtriya Sikh Sangat is an organization made by the RSS, not by Sikhs, and take one look at how loved these "Sikh Sangat" members are in Punjab. Their last chief, Rulda Singh, was shot down by your beloved Sikh right wing youth in Patiala 3 years ago.

Hindus don't have any issue with Sikh, then why target some Hindu groups which is largest in the country and also against Hindu without any reason which will force many people to turn negative against Sikh in long run?

Because my friend, as much as you like to believe, your RSS does not represent all Hindus, and the Sikh right wing does not represent all Sikhs.

Sikhs and Hindus in Punjab are indeed brothers and it is these right wing groups creating this divide.

Due to the actions of your RSS, you now even have common Punjabi Hindus trying to explain themselves and publicly disassociating themselves from the RSS:



From this message, it is quite clear, that some Hindus actually blame the RSS for giving them a bad name!


And before you get all tight on the video of the title, "Sikh nation", that video is not uploaded by a Sikh but the same Hindu chap on his youtube channel. "Sikh nation" does not always mean geographical Khalistan, but is also often used to say "Sikh quam" in English; and I am sure this Hindu brother used it in the same sense; before you jump on even him for being anti-national. He is only anti-RSS, not anti-national.

 

[lemontree]

Tronic has never been anti-Indian, anti-hindu or Pro-Khalistani in his posts.

He gives a view of the other side, which is valid and must be seen objectively.

What we say and argue on the net has been experienced by many Sikhs in Punjab. We have the benefit of third party perspective, so we can have opinions.

The Sikhs who were innocent victims dont have that benefit, they have scars.

 

[pankaj nema]

In a debate in Parliament some time back when Liberhan commission report on Babri demolition was
being discussed Sushma swaraj reminded the PM, since he is a sikh, that in the Guru Granth Sahib
the word RAM appears 500 TIMES

So any fool who is trying to drive a wedge between Hindus and sikhs should get a brain scan done

Hindus consider Sikhs as Hindus only There are so many similarities between Hindus and Sikhs

Hindus also visit Gurudwaras for prayers

And BTW why are Akalis and BJP together in Punjab

And who protected and helped Sikhs in Delhi 1984 riots It was BJP RSS people

 

[Galaxy]

Tronic has never been anti-Indian, anti-hindu or Pro-Khalistani in his posts.

He gives a view of the other side, which is valid and must be seen objectively.

What we say and argue on the net has been experienced by many Sikhs in Punjab. We have the benefit of third party perspective, so we can have opinions.

The Sikhs who were innocent victims dont have that benefit, they have scars.

Their is only 1 side - Justice denied and some Grievance against Government. I agree on that and always supported!

There is no 2nd side but few made it with the help of west propaganda. Many Sikhs+Hindus faced very bad phase of terrorism in Punjab. Those Khalistani terrorism harmed the society in worst way but many people either don't understand or try to remain ignorant as it defeats their intention. Killing, Raping, Donation, Kidnapping, Alliance with Paki, Partition and Anti-Hindu strategy, etc. Their vision and path was wrong and finally defeated even by large no. of Sikhs itself. You cannot play Victim card and promote hatred by raising each and every petty issue which exist in almost every state. They changed the Anti-State strategy into Anti-Hindu one.

What is the solution in democratic country like India ?

There are 10 Sikh MP, PM is Sikh, Punjab is ruled by predominately Sikh party. IMO, Only solution was/is possible through meaningful dialogue with Gov., Law and politics. Indeed, almost half of Sikhs voted to Congress and they should question the party why they not listing to their issue which matters or can solve their anger ? Defending & glorifying Rajoana and blaming society defeats the whole purpose. This is what some western Khalistani with the help of some Indian sikhs doing. If problem is not solved, Blame Government like any other citizen of the country does. why to blame own society ?

 

[The Messiah]

And who protected and helped Sikhs in Delhi 1984 riots It was BJP RSS people

Only they protected and no one else ?

People protected sikh from all communities not because of there political view point but because of there humanity.

 

[The Messiah]

In a debate in Parliament some time back when Liberhan commission report on Babri demolition was
being discussed Sushma swaraj reminded the PM, since he is a sikh, that in the Guru Granth Sahib
the word RAM appears 500 TIMES

Hindus consider Sikhs as Hindus only There are so many similarities between Hindus and Sikhs

This is what causes problems for sikhs the most in ideological terms.

They consider themselves to be different religion to hindus.

 

[Tronic]

They changed the Anti-State strategy into Anti-Hindu one.

BS. Only you changed it into that on this forum.

What is the solution in democratic country like India ?

There are 10 Sikh MP, PM is Sikh, Punjab is ruled by predominately Sikh party. IMO, Only solution was/is possible through meaningful dialogue with Gov., Law and politics. Indeed, almost half of Sikhs voted to Congress and they should question the party why they not listing to their issue which matters or can solve their anger ? Defending & glorifying Rajoana and blaming society defeats the whole purpose.

Your thinking is clouded by a communal perspective, that is why you fail to see that this is a fight between people demanding justice and the government. It doesn't matter if there are 100 Sikh MPs, or PM is Sikh. What your communal mind can never understand is this is a fight between people vs the system; not Sikh vs Hindu. Unless Beant Singh was a Hindu in your books.

This is what some western Khalistani with the help of some Indian sikhs doing. If problem is not solved, Blame Government like any other citizen of the country does. why to blame own society ?

You are the only one beating your chest and playing victim here; no one has a problem with Hindus. And the Western Extremist Sikhs you keep referring to, don't bloody live in India!

 

[Tronic]

In a debate in Parliament some time back when Liberhan commission report on Babri demolition was
being discussed Sushma swaraj reminded the PM, since he is a sikh, that in the Guru Granth Sahib
the word RAM appears 500 TIMES......

.....Hindus consider Sikhs as Hindus only There are so many similarities between Hindus and Sikhs

And any Sikh who stands up for his beliefs and argues against that is "anti-national".

It's the Hindu right way, or the highway!

 

[Galaxy]

Although there are many similarities between Sikhs and Hindus. I can write a long essay using reference of various Sikh guru too.

BUT Sikh is different religion!!

@Tronic :- I won't reply you as your logic/point is based on Khalistani propaganda only! you are posting same thing again and again. I already said what i believed is true as per my understand and knowledge!! I don't want to make too many post which will add too much flaimbait!!

 

[Tronic]

This is what causes problems for sikhs the most in ideological terms.

They consider themselves to be different religion to hindus.

Messiah, if I even start quoting the things in the Guru Granth Sahib which Sikhs are told not to do, these same chaps will go up in arms! Why? Because Sikh religion doesn't conform to the Hindu way, therefore, for these right wing chaps, it is automatically a threat.

Infact, even the "Sikh Rehat Maryada", the Sikh Code of Conduct established by the SGPC (according to which, even I'm not a Sikh by the way); cannot possibly conform to the beliefs these chaps want the Sikh religion to conform to.

I suspect that since I have raised this point even before, that is the reason I may be an "anti-national" and "Khalistani extremist" to our member, Galaxy, here.

 

[Galaxy]

And any Sikh who stands up for his beliefs and argues against that is "anti-national".

It's the Hindu right way, or the highway!

Another typical "Victim card mentality" "Khalistani mentality" ~ You are proving my point again and again!!!

Many Hindus consider Sikhs as part of Dharmic faith. It has nothing to do with an organisation or political party. It is due to similarities between two Indic religion and going on since the day Sikhism started. I also go to Gurudwara, So I am SIKH ??Although, I agree with you that "Sikh is different religion".

Anti-National are those who want/wanted to break the country or were involved in Insurgency/Anti-Indian activity. Like Khalistani, LeT, SIMI, IM, Maoist, ULFA, NE terrorist groups, etc. !! Don't mix Rightist political ideology with separatist movement!!


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