Europe and an inscrutable China

Discussion in 'China' started by Daredevil, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    It seems, Europe has come to its senses and realizing the danger of friendship with China.

     
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  3. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Its good that the World is finally getting to see what China is all about.

    Much of the world seems to think that America is an arrogant superpower, but wait till China becomes a superpower - then they will see what a really nasty superpower is.
    The Chinese foreign policy has no morality whatsoever. They will do anything and everything and deal with whoever they have to deal with as long as it benefits them.

    That's the Chinese mentality - they dont care about environmental, social turmoil, human-rights, respect for intellectual rights, religious values, or anything else that happens in any other country as long as they benefit from it. The Chinese brain is almost incapable of looking at things from a holistic point of view.

    Now imagine what the world will look like if these guys becomes equal in strength to the US. Not a pretty sight !!
     
  4. vishal_lionheart

    vishal_lionheart Regular Member

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    You are right brother
     
  5. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    guy, why be so big fuss?

    the nature of "state" is selfish,which comepetely differnt from the nature of " individuals".

    it is quite hypocritial to foist the morality criterion of "individial" on "states"
     
  6. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    The funny thing is that china and india has the same stance in Copenhagen.

    I didn't see any indian friend jumping out to say:"we should put an emission cap on ourselves".
     
  7. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    The world is seeing whats happening in china and remembering what the nazi regime did in germany and try to muscle out every power in the world .

    Rise of china is seen very suspiciously by most developed nations. Basically the free world can get restless when a communist regime wants to be world power. PLA even is restless when its sees its people question its life style as compared to citizens of developed nations.

    the world is realizing slowly what china is dangerous. like einstein said about china : let the dragon in the east sleep, the day it wakes up, the world will fear.
     
  8. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    What about Russia after collapse of Former Soviet Union? Has Russia got what was promised (aids, merging into the West etc.) as a reward for its transition to West Europe or the US' liking? The West is only interested in cutting off wings of the hawk and 'containing' it in a cage so that it won't fly high or turn out to be a menace.

    Even if countries of Russia or China's potential were willing to play third fiddle, the EU or US would still do the same to slow down at least the rise if not stop. No one is 'too simple or sometimes naive'.

    Dont' see why Indians join the chorus unless some think the West's attempt converges with their daydream.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  9. Dajiangyou

    Dajiangyou Guest

    People's admiration of "west value" is based on west's economy success.

    If CHina's economy were to surpass west economy, "west value" so called would bust as bubbles and be thrown out like used rubbers by people.

    in another word, China's economy success wll "subvert" "west value"
     
  10. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    And if the West goes back to protectionism the Dragon will be starved to death.
     
  11. Dajiangyou

    Dajiangyou Guest

    it is too late.

    Bush'a administratio could have done so ten years ago,when Chinese economy was not so powerful.

    But now, no country can afford to close their door to CHina.

    West countries once had two chances to "check "china after Soviet collapsed.

    the first chance was in 1990s,while Clinton was president.
    During 1990s, USA thought by mistake that China were to be "reshaped" by "west value" as long as CHina opened its door to west. So at that time, USA concentrated its attention on putting russia into cage in 1990s.


    the second chance was in about 2000 when Bush was elected as yankee's president.
    In 2000, Prsident Bush seemed to realize that it would be China, instead of Russia, that would be the biggest threaten of "west value" . Bush once pledged to "protect Taiwan" at any cost . that was the last chance.

    However, Bin Laden succeeded in changing Yankee's agenda. After 911, Bin Laden occupied Yankee's attention and China made fully use of the 10 years of " window of Chance" ( 2000-2010) to consolidate its economy base greatly.
    To some extent, 911 event helped CHina very much.


    Now, west world has lost any chance to put CHina into cage. the only that west world can do is to pray ...pray that CHina be a good boy.
     
  12. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    So China is lucky enough. After Soviet's collapse it was Bin Laden - Al Qaeda who popped up diverting the US (and the West as a whole)'s attention, then Iraq. Otherwise China could have had a really hard time facing all that pressure alone. Those who're up the ladder in the 'Super Power' club won't welcome any new members, regardless of its 'ideology' , or whether it follows 'West Values'. Selfish genes at work!

    Now that Russia is back and Latin America the so-called US's backyard has turned left (Chavez Venezuela etc.), the US should have a busy time along with its multi-fronts in Iraq, Afriganistan, Iran and N.Korea...

    By the way just look at the 'solidarity' of EU
    If the domestic demand is unleashed along with infrastructure investment China can still fare the economic crisis pretty well. The Dragon won't starve with enormous domestic market.
     
  13. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Holding 1.5 trillion dollars of worthless debt is enough to stop the dragon. USA does not honor the debt China has worthless paper, no need to think harder. It can be easily done since US government has to buy the debt since no one else will they can essentially choose which countries holding US debt gets redemption and at what price it may seem like there is a market but there really isn't one when US government is the only buyer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  14. VayuSena1

    VayuSena1 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    LOL.. I don't think so it would be a case for our Pakistani friends though. They would love to see China rise above United States based on their current perspective of the government at Beijing.
     
  15. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    There's no such a daydream like 'who rises above whom'. the US is the big boss so long as US dollar is unchallenged.

    By the way who's Pakistan's big-time ally and patron? Not China. Oh yes it's the US, all-weather.
     
  16. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Of course, china economy will collapse immediately if USA dishonor its debt hold by china. But the by product of this policy will be the collapse of USA economy: the financial market will be hit by great panic, every foreign investor will pull their money out from US market since investment in USA is not "Safe" anymore. Meanwhile each USA big company will be involved because chinese gov will use their property in China as the compensation. Since these companies lost their hugh investment in china, they will have big problem to pay loan. Now, the bank system gets into trouble as well.

    The story is not over yet. Now the storm will come to South East asia. In these years, china has a hugh trading deficit with them. When the chinese industry stop running, millions of factories in these countries will lost their top customer and then shut down. And their crisis will also affect their supplier, customer and banker in Europe and Japan.

    So, congratulations, your policy just draw the whole wold economy into the hell.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  17. Dark_Prince

    Dark_Prince Regular Member

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    All things said and done-Never Trust PLA with Innocent Faces. Chinese citizens don't posses any ill feelings against India unlike Pakistan, but surely PLA is untrustworthy. I have read that even Pakistani officials find it hard to deal with heavy headed PLA comrades to get the deal done and above all PLA always tries to overcharge Pak for reverse-engineered technology.:)
     
  18. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    No, you are wrong. There is no army can survive outside their own people's opinion.

    The truth is that most of chinese don't care of india because they didn't see india's potential. For any chinese who care about india, he or she definitely take the same side with PLA. It is not because PLA think so, it's national interest. Chinese believe south tibet belongs to China as much as indian believe Aksai qin belongs to India. So, both sides are equal on this problem.
     
  19. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    interesting point but why USA be a non safe investment?? this would not be disclosed to the world the government would simply say at this time they are not able to do redemptions. Even today the trade China does with USA is mostly on a debt basis China sends goods USA sends debt. Chinese investment is mostly on the low end manufacturing side it would not be as bad as you would like in fact it would spur economic growth when manufacturing returns to places it left.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2010
  20. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    So, would they just target china or every creditors? If to everyone, do you think these people will be cool about it? if only on china, well USA can dishonor their debt to china today, it can dishonour any debt tomorrow. There is no gurantee that USA gov would not do it again.

    Almost 90% of US big companies have their investment in China. Their investment have been traded to land, facility, machine in china. There is no way that they can withdraw these money immediately. On the other hand, these companies benefit far more than china in this sino-usa trading. There is a data: every 10 dollors generated from trading, there are 8 dollors was put iinto USA companies' pockets.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2010
  21. singa

    singa Regular Member

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    I don't think USA will dehonor its debt from China. Now China and USA are bundled already. One bad, the other will be bad as well. Can you image the people in USA will always buy a 100 dolars T-shirt? In 20 years agao, USA might be. But now, it is too late...
     

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