Did Islam Ruin Afghanistan ?

[Pratap]

If Islam ruined Afghanistan it is fair to say that it also ruined Uttar Pradesh which has still not recovered. The moot point is which is the loser civilization here?

Yes it did ruin Uttar Pradesh but state survived due to large population unlike Afghanistan where Hindu culture is not even in museums. We still worship Shiva, Afghans at best see statues in museums.

 

[Pratap]

@bennedose

Where did the the idea that women should cover their heads and faces as is still done by Hindu women in vast parts of north India originate from?

The idea is there in Mahabharata and certainly well attested by Gupta period. This was before Islam was born. Idea of covering faces by newly married bride was original to North.

The idea of honor killings in India, where my sister needs to be killed if she marries outside the community - the idea that honor of the family revolves around the behavior of the women - where did this idea originate from?

Honor killing is not norm. That is like arguing that where did idea of rapes originate? Patriarchial culture has always revolved around chastity of women. You are just one of the westernized idiots writing nonsense. Read Ramayana or some other old brahmanic texts. A country where Sahagaman was practised is now producing idiots who ask that how honor is related to behaviour of women?

When in ancient India did the idea of segregation of men and women start?

Among brahmanic circles in Pre Gupta age.

When and why did it become bad practice to paint or carve nude humans in India?

Males can be painted nude but I think that female nudity was stopped from arts due to Islam.

You have a view which degraded sexologists have fed you, that ancient India was modern day west with free sex. This is BS but since you represent majority, one can not do much.

 

[Pratap]

You are wrong here. Mehendi has orignated from Vedic India Itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehndi

He is wrong on every point. The idea that pre marital sex, dating and tolerance of homosexuality was norm in India before Islam is a shameless idea.
Some western trained psychologists like Sudhir Kakkad have mentally castrated these people.

 

[Neo]

@Pratap, Sir have you disabled your inbox?
I tried but failed to send you a PM.

 

[Pratap]

@Pratap, Sir have you disabled your inbox?
I tried but failed to send you a PM.

No, I have received some infractions which have resulted in me not even able to view my profile, edit my posts or send PM to anyone. I can just post.
Believe me, I am not a Pakistani. The reason I call Pakistan as much natural state than Afghanistan or even India is because of single fact. You need to have a common and unique language to call yourself a nation. An Indian living in Tamil Nadu can talk with a Brazilian but not with an ordinary Bihari of his own nation. Same with Afghanistan. Many Uzbeks can not talk with people of Jalalabad but can talk with Uzbeks of Uzbekistan. So, no common identity or language.
Pakistan has many groups like Baloch, Hindko, Pashtun, Saraiki, Punjabis( Lahnda speakers), Sindhis but they all can read and write( literates) in a language which is common to them. That is national identity.

Pakistanis are no different from North Indians except Islam but this religion has created a gap which will never be bridged.

 

[bennedose]

You are wrong here. Mehendi has orignated from Vedic India Itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehndi

Wiki does not say that the pre marriage ceremony with women only was vedic in origin. You are bluffing.

 

[bennedose]

He is wrong on every point. The idea that pre marital sex, dating and tolerance of homosexuality was norm in India before Islam is a shameless idea.
Some western trained psychologists like Sudhir Kakkad have mentally castrated these people.

You are clutching at straws. I never said anything about homosexuality. You need to make up things to catch me out because you are unable to counter what I ask.

 

[bennedose]

Civilization does not mean wearing lungi and flashing curved blades. It means arts, literature and other such cultural stuff. Disunity in these areas did prove disastrous but their civilization was brilliant than many parts of modern day India.
Entire India has been losers if military defeats matter a lot.

Bihar and UP were the center of civilization 3000 to 2000 years ago. Now they are nothing. What literature is anyone getting from UP and Bihar? What culture? Shah Rukh Khan? Stop thrashing about trying to defend the indefensible.

UP and Bihar are inhabitated by Indo Aryans following their age old religion, speaking age old languages, writing in their own scripts and being backbone of India.
Do Afghans write in Indic script, follow Hinduism, speak indic languages? You can not see difference between UP and Afghanistan! Such idiocy is not rare these days.

Yes yes yes. Even Pakis and Afghans are Indo Aryans. Even Persian derived languages are ultimately Sanskrit derived and corrupted with Arabic.

Google for images of women from UP, Bihar, Punjab and Rajasthan and you find their heads covered. The states were all dhimmified and women suppressed by Islamic rule. You don't even know how much civilization is dead and you think aggressive shouting makes things good.

 

[bennedose]

The religions, languages , scripts, customs in UP, Bihar are closer to Ancient India than in Punjab so more nonsense from you.
The two primary components of a civilization are religion and language and since vast majority of Bhaiyyas still are Hindu and speak Indo Aryan vernaculars, your whole objection is that of a ignorant.

You cook up what is convenient for you and blabber as if a civilization has survived. just look at how much Hindi is corrupted. Compare that with Bengali, or even Malayalam and Kannada in terms of Sanskrit content for that matter. Frothing at the mouth does not replace abject ignorance. Only after independence India has tried to Sanskritize Hindi.

How many Hindi speakers say "aurat" and not "nari"? Hindi retains a huge number of Persian or Arabic origin words. Just because you imagine that some pure civilization exists means zilch to anyone else. The whole of India and that includes Tamil retains a healthy dose of Sanskrit so quit quoting 19th century western nincompoops whom you imagine were scholars.You simply don't know anything more than how to bluff confidently.

 

[Neo]

No, I have received some infractions which have resulted in me not even able to view my profile, edit my posts or send PM to anyone. I can just post.
Believe me, I am not a Pakistani. The reason I call Pakistan as much natural state than Afghanistan or even India is because of single fact. You need to have a common and unique language to call yourself a nation. An Indian living in Tamil Nadu can talk with a Brazilian but not with an ordinary Bihari of his own nation. Same with Afghanistan. Many Uzbeks can not talk with people of Jalalabad but can talk with Uzbeks of Uzbekistan. So, no common identity or language.
Pakistan has many groups like Baloch, Hindko, Pashtun, Saraiki, Punjabis( Lahnda speakers), Sindhis but they all can read and write( literates) in a language which is common to them. That is national identity.

Pakistanis are no different from North Indians except Islam but this religion has created a gap which will never be bridged.

Sorry to hear about your restricted access. I have some problems with my profile aswell.

Anyways, you are an educated Indian and I never doubted your Indian nationality.

I only wanted to compliment you in a PM for your detailed knowledge and expertise in so many area's like history, religion, language, customs, relics...etc.
You certainly know your stuff and write with passion without jingoism, a quality rarely seen these days.
It's a pleasure to follow your debates. Keep them coming!

 

[bennedose]

No, I have received some infractions which have resulted in me not even able to view my profile, edit my posts or send PM to anyone. I can just post.
Believe me, I am not a Pakistani. The reason I call Pakistan as much natural state than Afghanistan or even India is because of single fact. You need to have a common and unique language to call yourself a nation. An Indian living in Tamil Nadu can talk with a Brazilian but not with an ordinary Bihari of his own nation. Same with Afghanistan. Many Uzbeks can not talk with people of Jalalabad but can talk with Uzbeks of Uzbekistan. So, no common identity or language.
Pakistan has many groups like Baloch, Hindko, Pashtun, Saraiki, Punjabis( Lahnda speakers), Sindhis but they all can read and write( literates) in a language which is common to them. That is national identity.

Pakistanis are no different from North Indians except Islam but this religion has created a gap which will never be bridged.

Yes yes. Reveal how little you know. The only place where your words will last more than 5 seconds is an internet forum like this. In India people will die laughing at your ludicrous blather. The more you write the more ignorance you reveal about huge parts of India. You may not be Pakistani, but you are certainly able to bluff confidently like Pakis. Are you looking for "neo sir" to help you out?

 

[Pratap]

You are clutching at straws. I never said anything about homosexuality. You need to make up things to catch me out because you are unable to counter what I ask.

I have provided answers to all you have asked. I have answered that covering head was there in Pre Islamic India also.

 

[bennedose]

I have provided answers to all you have asked. I have answered that covering head was there in Pre Islamic India also.

You love to bluff don't you? You know very very little about India, although I am not sure that you are Indian. You could be Pakistani from the pathetic ignorance you have - playing a little game with you and neo chamcha-fying each other. Cut it out. All you have to do is type a few words before you make a stupid error.

I think you are a Paki playing a game of tag - pretending to be Indian. Your lack of depth in knowledge is too obvious. Keep it coming. I am going to enjoy this.

 

[Pratap]

Yes yes. Reveal how little you know. The only place where your words will last more than 5 seconds is an internet forum like this. In India people will die laughing at your ludicrous blather. The more you write the more ignorance you reveal about huge parts of India. You may not be Pakistani, but you are certainly able to bluff confidently like Pakis. Are you looking for "neo sir" to help you out?

So a man who lied on no civilization after Ashoka in Northwestern areas, talked about Hindu being replaced by buddhists in that part when Islam came is writing about ignorance!

You may have support for your stupid views but that does not mean anything.

 

[Pratap]

You love to bluff don't you? You know very very little about India, although I am not sure that you are Indian. You could be Pakistani from the pathetic ignorance you have - playing a little game with you and neo chamcha-fying each other. Cut it out. All you have to do is type a few words before you make a stupid error.

I think you are a Paki playing a game of tag - pretending to be Indian. Your lack of depth in knowledge is too obvious. Keep it coming. I am going to enjoy this.

Internet bully and you are as bad human being as your crooked face avatar. Mods know me very well that I am not a Pakistani .

 

[Pratap]

@bennedose

You wrote

Perhaps "civilization" ended after Ashoka but all the same Afghanistan served as strong base for Islamic kings to come and rape and loot what is now Pakistan.

Such shameless ignorance. Post Ashoka Gandhara can boast of great statues and coins, what can Ashokan Gandhara show?

Just because this debate is being conducted by few persons, you are able to lie with straight face. Ignorant internet bully.

 

[bennedose]

@bennedose




The idea is there in Mahabharata and certainly well attested by Gupta period. This was before Islam was born. Idea of covering faces by newly married bride was original to North.




Honor killing is not norm. That is like arguing that where did idea of rapes originate? Patriarchial culture has always revolved around chastity of women. You are just one of the westernized idiots writing nonsense. Read Ramayana or some other old brahmanic texts. A country where Sahagaman was practised is now producing idiots who ask that how honor is related to behaviour of women?




Among brahmanic circles in Pre Gupta age.



Males can be painted nude but I think that female nudity was stopped from arts due to Islam.

You have a view which degraded sexologists have fed you, that ancient India was modern day west with free sex. This is BS but since you represent majority, one can not do much.

Nonsense. Covering the head for a marriage is different from covering faces all the time in the presence of unrelated men which is what Islam did to North India.

You are the one who is spouting westernized rubbish by speaking of "partiarchal culture blah blah"- or "well attested from Gupta period" Come on show me that attestation. Stop bluffing. India patriarchal culture never segregated men from women as in Islam. That came from Arabia with Islam. You simply want to pretend that Islam had no effect on North India but affected only Afghaistan. That is utter tripe. And India retains matriarchal culture in some places - but you wouldn't know anything outside Pakista, UP and Bihar it appears. If you think you have been doing any reading - you have a long way to go before you can wash off your pretend theories about culture.

 

[bennedose]

@bennedose

You wrote



Such shameless ignorance. Post Ashoka Gandhara can boast of great statues and coins, what can Ashokan Gandhara show?

Just because this debate is being conducted by few persons, you are able to lie with straight face. Ignorant internet bully.

Hmmis it so tough to have your ludicrous racist rubbish called out? Afghnistan had culture even after Islam came in. With Islam a lot of older culture was eventually destroyed just as it was in Bihar and UP. Afghanistan only became worse in recent decades. You don't even know how much UP and Bihar absorbed and you think the retention of Hindi and Shiva worship is all that is needed to say that all is well. Shows how superficial is your understanding of what culture means.

 

[Pratap]

Sorry to hear about your restricted access. I have some problems with my profile aswell.

Anyways, you are an educated Indian and I never doubted your Indian nationality.

I only wanted to compliment you in a PM for your detailed knowledge and expertise in so many area's like history, religion, language, customs, relics...etc.
You certainly know your stuff and write with passion without jingoism, a quality rarely seen these days.
It's a pleasure to follow your debates. Keep them coming!

Hey do not go far or they will say that I have "ganged up " with you. I hate harassing anyone simply because his group is bad.

 

[Pratap]

Hmmis it so tough to have your ludicrous racist rubbish called out? Afghnistan had culture even after Islam came in. With Islam a lot of older culture was eventually destroyed just as it was in Bihar and UP. Afghanistan only became worse in recent decades. You don't even know how much UP and Bihar absorbed and you think the retention of Hindi and Shiva worship is all that is needed to say that all is well. Shows how superficial is your understanding of what culture means.

You said civilization ended with Ashoka and now you are running for cover. Substantiate your claim.
BTW, Culture does include religion and language as its main components not painting nude figures or not covering heads. You are amazingly dishonest.
Nothing is well in UP and Bihar so far as HDI and PCI is concerned and I admit this. This is economic backwardness not cultural.