Clash at Tibetan monastery in China could turn 'explosive', Dalai Lama says

Discussion in 'China' started by youngindian, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. youngindian

    youngindian Senior Member Senior Member

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    A five-day stand-off between monks and armed police at a Tibetan monastery in western China could become "explosive", the Dalai Lama has warned.

    The Tibetan spiritual leader also asked the international community to request that Chinese authorities show restraint in the confrontation at Kirti monastery in Sichuan, where police have reportedly locked down the complex with up to 2,500 monks inside.

    The International Campaign for Tibet said hundreds of Tibetans gathered at the monastery in Aba county, also known as Ngaba, believing the authorities were preparing to forcibly remove the monks for "patriotic education". Exiles allege that security forces beat residents and loosed dogs on them as they forced their way through the crowds on Tuesday, injuring two women in their sixties.

    The re-education campaign was reportedly launched after a young monk from Kirti died after setting fire to himself in protest against Chinese rule on 16 March. English language state media have mentioned the death but have not referred to the clash at the monastery, and the Guardian has not been able to confirm it independently.

    A spokeswoman at the Aba local government office said she knew nothing about the situation. But the United States has raised concerns about the confrontation with Beijing.

    "I am very concerned that this situation if allowed to go on may become explosive with catastrophic consequences for the Tibetans in Ngaba," the Dalai Lama said late yesterday. "I urge both the monks and the lay Tibetans of the area not to do anything that might be used as a pretext by the local authorities to massively crack down on them.

    "I also strongly urge the international community, the governments around the world, and the international non-governmental organisations to persuade the Chinese leadership to exercise restraint in handling this situation."

    The Tibetan spiritual leader lives in exile in Dharamsala, India. Beijing accuses him of seeking to split Tibet from the rest of China, while he says he seeks only meaningful autonomy.

    The dead monk, Phuntsog, aged between 16 and 20, set fire to himself on 16 March – three years after anti-government unrest rippled across much of Western China following the Lhasa riots. Aba is one of many areas outside the Tibet region with a large Tibetan population.

    Tibetan exiles allege that the police beat Phuntsog instead of putting out the flames. Other monks then intervened, dragging him into the monastery for shelter before taking him to a hospital.

    A Chinese state media report denied that he had been beaten, saying a post-mortem found no injuries other than burns, and alleged he died because the monks denied him medical treatment.

    The International Campaign for Tibet says that authorities then installed a barbed wire fence and concrete wall around much of the huge complex and detained several Tibetans, including a 16-year-old boy and Phuntsog's brother and uncle.

    The campaign said residents were allowed to deliver food to the monastery for the first time yesterday and that 15 senior monks spoke to the director of the religious affairs bureau after local religious leaders asked for dialogue.

    Sophie Richardson, Asia advocacy director at Human Rights Watch, said: "The use of violence against peaceful, unarmed demonstrators including those surrounding the Kirti monastery would be both unjustifiable and completely unlawful.

    "It is vital that Chinese security forces respect the safety of all concerned, use the minimum force needed to keep public order, and fully respect both the monks and bystanders' right to freely practice religion, assemble, and peacefully carry out protests."

    A foreign ministry spokesman did not answer questions about the incident at a regular press briefing on Thursday, but said Beijing's policies had dramatically raised Tibetans' living standards.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/16/tibetan-monastery-china-clash-armed-police-dalai-lama
     
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  3. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Just a couple of question:
    how could police beat him while there is still flames on his body?
    Don't they worry that may burn their own body?
    What was other lama doing before the polices coming to beat him? Watching him to burn alive? Why didn't they send him to hospital before draging him back into temple?
    What happened to change the police's mind that allow these lama to send him to hospital?

    Well, these scenarios don't make sense to me.
     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The police can beat a body that is in flames with batons. It need not be to hurt a person, but to put off the fire by 'beating' the fire out.

    Dedicated and selfless police do not worry about their own safety. That is why if they get singed, they do not worry. Controlling a mob or a riot is more dangerous.

    The Lamas were protesting and it was towards the fulfilment of their aim that one would sacrifice himself and so that maybe the reason why they did not intervene.

    The Lamas possibly dragged the burnt Lama inside the temple possibly to administer the Tibetan form of medicine.

    One does not know why the Police changed their heart to allow the Lama to go to the Hospital. Maybe they were worried about foreign Human Rights going hammer and tongs at their lack of humanitarian sensitivity.


    That apart, what does HH the Dalai Lama mean by 'explosive?
     
  5. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    My Chinese friends here can correct me if I am wrong - But doesnt "patriotic education" in China mean that you are going to be put in a concentration camp and tortured for your beliefs until you either sign confessions or eventually die from torture. if you are a Han Chinese, maybe there is a chance that you may get out in one piece, but if you are Tibetan and Ugyhur - then you are headed for an unmarked grave.

    Anyway, I dont expect to see any of those monks who are sent for "patriotic education" to ever come back in one piece.

    Chinese dont believe in karma.......but I wonder how much bad karma the Chinese people can collect before it comes back and smacks their entire nation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011
  6. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Patriotic education Varies, such as history classes in order to reinforce belief in One China, or ethnic harmony alike. Or sometimes visit of some historical sites / museums also for that purpose.

    Karma Who sowed the seeds of hatred in that monk's mind so that he had to set fire to himself?
     
  7. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    You are right, mattster. "patriotic education" is a horrible experience for every Chinese from Hans to Tibetans.

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    I wish I haven't been there. Horrible
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I had heard of patriotic education and I think it is prevalent in Japan too.

    Just out of curiosity I googled and this is what came up




    Is this patriotic education?
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    As I see it in the olden days, before the Communist came to power, China was segmented and one one homogeneous whole. That is why China could be exploited.

    However, the Communists realised that without a love for a patriotic identity, it would not be possible for an impoverished population to rise from the divisiveness that plagued the Chinese society nor would it be possible to goad the population to put in their worth towards progress and get away from an indolent lethargy.

    It is possible with this aim in view, various instruments to get the Chinese mind to think about progress and of One China, were devised and to that end, maybe this patriotic education was one of the instruments.

    True, this may appear to the non Chinese to be horrifying, but the Chinese have accepted it as a course of life and indeed, they are working with one mind towards the progress of their country.

    The results are there for all to see.

    Maybe they believe that Ends desired Justify the Means Adopted.
     
  10. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    not really so. on a US bank not there's "In God We Trust". The US president ends a speech with "God Bless America". Everyone in a stadium is singing "Star Spangled Banner" emotionally before a match. "Patriotic edu." is a norm in every "sophisticated" country IMO.

    Are different countries/peoples so different from each other? What if Mr Madayiwei tells an american below? Or who is "brain washed", or who is washing whom?
     
  11. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    Buddhists are peaceful, in religion, views and activities. Makes me wonder if they are the Jews of the 21st century? Would their peaceful attitude cause more harm than good? What would take the world to wake up and take notice? Would it take a million Buddhists to go down before any action is taken? Sad times we live in!
     
  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    There is a slight difference as I observe.

    In India, Communities like Jehovah's Witness do not sign the national anthem.

    Muslims don't sign Vande Mataram.

    In short, they can't be forced.

    In the US, they fly the secessionist Confederate Flag and nothing can be done.

    In China, they would be behind bars for a dose of patriotic education. As any patriotic person, such an action would be endorsed. However, given the Pollyannas and laws, such chaps who find reasons not to be patriotic (depends on interpretations and the jury is still out), go scot free in other countries.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011
  13. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Obviously, you lack of knowledge of "how peaceful thesee buddhists could be".

    Before any foreign invasions occurring, they already started killing each other for religious dominance.
    When they realise that they couldn't win on their own, they invited Mongole, Qing and finally Han coming into Tibet for help: killing other Buddhists in Tibet.
    In order to appreciate these outsider and keep their protection, these lamas sign the treaty and submit themselves to the foreign ruling.
     
  14. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes, they can fly anything on their flag. But if they dare to declare it as they did in 1860s, war would be the answer.

    And also, in india, as I know there are still couple of groups are fighting for their independence with guns and bullets.
     
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The very idea of flying a rebel flag itself is not patriotic!

    It is like flying the Republic of China's flag in Beijing!

    There are groups fighting in India and of that there is no denial. But there is no patriotic education being done to them as in China or having a Tienanmen Square.

    That is the difference.

    Further, the fact that you are aware and the world is aware indicates that India does not keep such activities under the wraps, unlike China which keeps all adverse news hidden from its own people and from the world.

    India is not afraid of dissidence. China is petrified of dissidence!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  16. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    Do you have any sources for your claim or should I believe that even you consider Buddhists to be peaceful and your english comprehension came in the way of expressing those.
     
  17. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    McCain kept on refering to himself as a veteran fighting for the US in Vietnam War in his presidential campaigns.

    A school faculty in Japan was reprimanded becoz they refused to sing Kimi no Yo the anthem mostly abt glory of divine reign against their belief in democracy. Like in China schools have a ritual of flag hoisting every morning to enforce and reinforce the identity and recognition of...

    It's a delusion that "only" China is doing so-called "Patriotic edu.". Much of such "education" is done in a subtle way. Just At a glimpse of Indian headlines using words such as "insurgents", "rebels" or "terrorists" for Maoists, Kashmiri or NE separatists "patriotic" messages are clearly conveyed.
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    China launches renewed "Patriotic Education" Campaign across all sections in Tibet

    Link

    The newspapers in India can publish what it likes, one cannot stop them, but there is no forcible education in school/ or in public, under the aegis of the Government, to whip up nationalistic frenzy as would be done in China.
     
  19. niharjhatn

    niharjhatn Regular Member

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    McCain's whole electoral campaign was that he was a fighter pilot who had given his legs to the American cause and was tortured by the Vietnamese - it was meant to highlight the differences between himself and Obama (label Obama as un-American).

    However, nowhere in America is "patriotism" forced. In fact, they have numerous days for celebrating minority groups such as Native American days and Latino-heritage days and so on, where even during sporting events, decisions calls are made in Spanish etc. first before being translated into English.

    There is a sharp difference between patriotism, a voluntary feeling developed by oneself and your own feelings for your country and patriotic education - where a particular view of patriotism is forced.

    How is calling insurgents, rebels, and terrorists what they are some sort of subliminal "patriotic" messaging?

    Jeez - the guys KILL other Indians! How is that in any way akin to forced patriotic education to people who do not want it?!
     

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