Chinese Telecom Equipment Now Banned In India

[nandu]

China telco gear makers tussle over sales in India row

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Chinese telecommunications giants Huawei Technologies and ZTE are treading familiar ground in their clash with India, scrambling to soothe spying concerns in a tough market they cannot afford to leave.

In a nod to India's growing clout as a telecoms consumer, the pair of Chinese firms has made several moves in the last week, including potential localisation of some production, to try and diffuse a row that has seen New Delhi stop most of their imports.

As markets go, the stakes are huge.

India now accounts for about $1 billion of ZTE's annual sales, or about 10 percent of its total, while Huawei says it logged about $1.5 billion in contract sales in the market last year, about 5 percent of its total.

But margins are also incredibly thin in the highly competitive market, leading some to say a limited pullback could also be possible.

"This market is a big challenge for us," ZTE Chairman Hou Weigui told Reuters in a recent interview before the current conflict. "After so many years in India we haven't earned any profit. It's a big market, but we don't have any hopes for profit there."

Both ZTE and Huawei trace their roots to entrepreneurs who came out of China's old system of state-run enterprises -- a possible source of India's mistrust about the companies now playing out.

ZTE was founded by a group of engineers from a state-run company in interior China who came to the boomtown of Shenzhen in the 1980s to try their luck after the city was declared a special economic zone for private enterprise.

Huawei is grounded in similar roots, founded by a former People's Liberation Army engineer who also set up shop in Shenzhen as an agent selling imported telecoms equipment.

While ZTE is now a publicly traded company with shares listed in both Shanghai and Hong Kong, Huawei remains privately held.

India's telecoms carriers, which are embarking on a new spending wave after the country's recent issue of 3G licenses, are likely lobbying strongly behind the scenes to resolve the issue, which threatens to lock the world's top two low-cost equipment providers out of the market if it goes unresolved.

Such an impasse would play into the hands of the world's other major suppliers, Ericsson, Nokia Siemens Networks, Alcatel Lucent and Motorola, said Joseph Ho, an analyst at Daiwa Securities.

COMMERCIAL DECISION

"At the end of the day it should be a commercial decision," said Ho, commenting on possible outcomes to the current standoff.

"The regulators should be sure that national security is being taken care of. The Chinese are ready to set up factories in India for this market. They have to resolve this."

Both ZTE and Huawei have said they are talking with Indian government officials to address their concerns, and may set up locally-based manufacturing plants to allay any security issues.

The current row dates back to late April, when reports emerged that Chinese equipment imports were being blocked. India has said there is no blanket ban, although all products must pass security checks.

"When the Indian government does something, observers would be unwise to conclude it's some low level bureaucrat," said a source close to one of the Chinese companies' global competitors, speaking on condition of anonymity due to sensitivity of the situation.

"All the Indian operators need to consider their options -- they're all in conversations with other players about 'optionality'."

The clash bears remarkable resemblance to one just five years ago between the two countries, whose testy relations include a border war in 1962 that India lost.

A previous face-off in 2005 saw Huawei reportedly picked to supply equipment to state run BSNL, India's largest phone carrier, only to have the deal yanked when Huawei refused to supply technology.

Huawei later proposed building a factory in India, but is still awaiting approval for the project.

ZTE also saw its plans to enter India's wholesale telecoms equipment market delayed in 2006 over concerns from India's intelligence agency, according to media reports at that time.

 

[nimo_cn]

You are right . their profits are much more than alcatel and simens. DO you know WHY?

Most of products of them are cheap rip off of better products.

The point is Huawei and ZTE are beating them. There is nothing wrong in being cheap.

height of copying is that most of their logs will even have logo of Cisco on it . that means they do a copy and paste for developing applications . not bothered to even remove the names of original developers .

Again, Chinese copies! Why not give yourself a break?

Judging from your location, i presume that you are working in IT industry, you must own more knowledge about how IT compay works.

So tell me, how could huawei manage to copy the source code of Cisco's IOS(Internet Operating System)? Is it like Ctrl+C, then Ctrl+V?

If Huawei is just copying, does it need to employ more than 35,000 computer engineers to do that? Copying can't be such a tough task.

You cannot argue with me. I personally know many hua wei employees.

Sounds as if you know a lot about Huawei! Knowing many Huawei employees, big deal?

I have personally worked in Huawei as an intern in 2008 for 5 months. Four of my college classmates have been working in Huawei since 2008, one of them was send to Bangalore last year and stayed there for 3 months.

Is that enough for me to argue with you?

they work their ass off for minimum 13-14 hrs a days and sometimes even 7 days a week.

So what? Being hardworking is a fault? Should Huawei be expelled from India for that?

 

[tarunraju]

Quality or the fact that they're "copies" are not the issue. Chinese companies, especially Huawei and UTStarcom make decent-quality hardware, which is good enough to operate in the harsh climate conditions of India. The issue is the fact that many of these companies are very close to the Chinese state, and the fact that they could implant spyware into it.

Then again, my contention all through has been that only high-level equipment must be embargoed, or GoI should set up a regulatory body like America's FCC (federal communications commission), which inspects the source-code and blue-prints of all communications devices before giving clearance for sale in their country. With FCC, the Government and the company come to an agreement that the government will inspect the equipment, while not steal the intellectual property that is protected by patents. India has high standards of property rights, so Chinese designs (well actually they were copied, remember? =P) are safe.

 

[SHASH2K2]

The point is Huawei and ZTE are beating them. There is nothing wrong in being cheap.



Again, Chinese copies! Why not give yourself a break?


Judging from your location, i presume that you are working in IT industry, you must own more knowledge about how IT compay works.

So tell me, how could huawei manage to copy the source code of Cisco's IOS(Internet Operating System)? Is it like Ctrl+C, then Ctrl+V?

If Huawei is just copying, does it need to employ more than 35,000 computer engineers to do that? Copying can't be such a tough task.



Sounds as if you know a lot about Huawei! Knowing many Huawei employees, big deal?

I have personally worked in Huawei as an intern in 2008 for 5 months. Four of my college classmates have been working in Huawei since 2008, one of them was send to Bangalore last year and stayed there for 3 months.

Is that enough for me to argue with you?



So what? Being hardworking is a fault? Should Huawei be expelled from India for that?

I will answer one by one.


its known worldwide that chines are good at spying . Ie steling sensitive information using spies, spywares, trojans. you guys blackmailed microsoft to share windows xp source code. who knows some of your spies might have hand on other sensitive source codes as well.Its globally known that your government support stealing intellectual property. I Suggest that Indian government should also ban computers made in china . who knows they have tweaked windows xp as well to steal sensitive information or to support their malwares.

2nd point . we both will fight but cannot reach to a conclusion .
3rd point . first is the main and only one . Your govt need to wake up and leave their anti India and Pro Pakistan attitude. Till now thy have not lost much but time has come that they will be loosing from now onwards.

JAI HIND

 

[SHASH2K2]

regarding ISO of yours. its difficult to create exact copy of Cisco but given chinese company track record of producing cheap ripped of version opf softwares and hardwares . I have full faith in you guys . YOU CAN DO IT.

 

[nimo_cn]

Quality or the fact that they're "copies" are not the issue.

I am glad we are reaching a consensus that India doesn't ban Huawei and ZTE for the quality of their products.

But i still reserve the right to dispute the unfounded allegation that the products of Huawei and ZTE are copies.

Chinese companies, especially Huawei and UTStarcom make decent-quality hardware, which is good enough to operate in the harsh climate conditions of India.

Actually, UTStarcom is an American company.

Accoding to some reports, it is banned in India because most of its employees are Chinese and most of its products are manufactured in China.

Obviously, India is very paranoid over China.

The issue is the fact that many of these companies are very close to the Chinese state, and the fact that they could implant spyware into it.

First, i would like to know how to define whether a company is close to a state or not. And how would that affect the security of another country.

Second, how would that be possible for a company to implant spyware in their telecom equipments without being caught? The core of a router is its IOS, which although has a similar funtion with PC's OS, is too simple and to small too accomadate any malware without being discoverd.

Third, it is too risky to do that, once such thing is exposed, Huawei and ZTE are doomed.

Then again, my contention all through has been that only high-level equipment must be embargoed, or GoI should set up a regulatory body like America's FCC (federal communications commission), which inspects the source-code and blue-prints of all communications devices before giving clearance for sale in their country. With FCC, the Government and the company come to an agreement that the government will inspect the equipment, while not steal the intellectual property that is protected by patents. India has high standards of property rights, so Chinese designs (well actually they were copied, remember? =P) are safe.

I think the latter suggestion is a pretty sound one.

India should set up a special department to inspect such issue professionally. Once a company doesn't pass the inspection, a more specific report can be given by that department to the public, so that no misunderstanding will be caused by lack of transparency.

 

[nimo_cn]

its known worldwide that chines are good at spying .

If Chinese were good at spying, how could you possibly know we are spying? Explain that paradox!

Ie steling sensitive information using spies, spywares, trojans. you guys blackmailed microsoft to share windows xp source code. who knows some of your spies might have hand on other sensitive source codes as well.

China blackmailed Microsoft to share windows xp source code? Man, what are you smoking? Could you please provide me with some sources? That is a big news!

Its globally known that your government support stealing intellectual property.

Give me proof to substantiate the accusation that Chinese government supports stealing IP.

I Suggest that Indian government should also ban computers made in china . who knows they have tweaked windows xp as well to steal sensitive information or to support their malwares.

You are out of fashion, it is the age of Window 7.
Hmm, maybe you can come out with another theory that Chinese government has blackmailed Microsoft to share the source code of Window 7.

2nd point . we both will fight but cannot reach to a conclusion .

I am not fighting, i am trying to reason!

3rd point . first is the main and only one . Your govt need to wake up and leave their anti India and Pro Pakistan attitude. Till now thy have not lost much but time has come that they will be loosing from now onwards.

JAI HIND

It is a little off topic, but your words just verified my initial assumption, India bans Chinese telecom equipments for political reasons rather than economic or security-related reasons. India wants to use trade weapon to intimidate China.

Nevertheless, i still want to say China has alway been trying to improve the bilateral relation with India. A closer tie between China and India need efforts from both sides. Before lecturing us on what we should do, have you pondered over what you should do?

 

[SHASH2K2]

India bans Chinese telecom equipment citing security reasons
By: NIRMALA GEORGE
Associated Press
04/30/10 7:05 AM EDT

NEW DELHI — India has banned telecom equipment from China citing national security reasons, heightening trade tensions between the two Asian economic giants.

In a recent order, the government has told mobile operators not to import any network equipment manufactured by Chinese vendors such as Huawei and ZTE.

Indian officials say the ban was prompted by concerns that Chinese telecom equipment could have spyware or malicious software — known as "malware" — embedded in it which could give Chinese intelligence agencies access to telecom networks in India.

The ban and other regulations come less than a week after media reports that Chinese hackers had broken into the computer networks of India's security, defense and diplomatic establishment.

Under strict new conditions, Indian telecom companies will have to get "security clearance" from India's home ministry before projects are approved, an official said Friday.

"All service providers have to submit details of the equipment used, and their applications will have to get security clearance from the home ministry," said Satyendra Prakash, a telecommunications ministry spokesman.

The government also ordered that the operation and maintenance of telecom networks be carried out "entirely" by Indian engineers.

Prakash said most countries had similar rules in place making it mandatory for companies to reveal their service providers in order to protect their database and network security systems.

China itself is involved in a tussle with Europe and the United States over Beijing's attempts to force foreign suppliers of computer security technology to disclose how it works.

The United States and Europe have said Beijing's requirement that global technology suppliers reveal the inner workings of computer encryption and other security products to conduct business in China was protectionist.

The immediate beneficiaries from the ban on Chinese equipment imports would be European, U.S.-based and Indian telecom equipment manufacturers who would fill the enormous demand for mobile equipment in India.

The number of mobile phone users in India is expected to hit 1 billion by 2014, roughly twice what it is now, with some 20 million new users added each month.

Last year the government banned imports of Chinese handsets without the International Mobile Equipment Identity, or IMEI, number, again citing security reasons such as the use of stolen handsets to make terror or hoax calls.

The IMEI number of a mobile phone is a 15 digit number unique to every mobile handset. It prevents stolen handsets from making calls and allows security agencies to track down a specific user.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://dev.www.washingtonexaminer.c...-security-reasons-92492149.html#ixzz0oNeJuK00

 

[nimo_cn]

regarding ISO of yours. its difficult to create exact copy of Cisco but given chinese company track record of producing cheap ripped of version opf softwares and hardwares . I have full faith in you guys . YOU CAN DO IT.

Please tell me how to creat a non-exact copy of Cisco. I think it is no easier than creating an exact copy of Cisco.

 

[tarunraju]

There has to be a strong basis for that paranoia, otherwise a democratic India which is also a developing country would never block communications equipment, especially when it's coming at affordable prices. Indian government is smart enough not to block Chinese imports for no good reasons.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Please tell me how to creat a non-exact copy of Cisco. I think it is no easier than creating an exact copy of Cisco.

Dude smoke come only when fire is there . you may fight for quality of fire but only fire give birth to smoke . hope you understand what I am saying. All these allegations must have a solod reasons behind them. govt of India must have very strong reason for its action

 

[death.by.chocolate]

I am glad we are reaching a consensus that India doesn't ban Huawei and ZTE for the quality of their products.

But i still reserve the right to dispute the unfounded allegation that the products of Huawei and ZTE are copies.



Actually, UTStarcom is an American company.

Accoding to some reports, it is banned in India because most of its employees are Chinese and most of its products are manufactured in China.

Obviously, India is very paranoid over China.



First, i would like to know how to define whether a company is close to a state or not. And how would that affect the security of another country.

Second, how would that be possible for a company to implant spyware in their telecom equipments without being caught? The core of a router is its IOS, which although has a similar funtion with PC's OS, is too simple and to small too accomadate any malware without being discoverd.

Third, it is too risky to do that, once such thing is exposed, Huawei and ZTE are doomed.



I think the latter suggestion is a pretty sound one.

India should set up a special department to inspect such issue professionally. Once a company doesn't pass the inspection, a more specific report can be given by that department to the public, so that no misunderstanding will be caused by lack of transparency.

I'm surprised the Chinese expect fair play when their own behavior past and present is exploitive and dubious.
Expect more bad news as more nations discover ways to legally exclude Chinese competition.

 

[Iamanidiot]

Tell us who owns you, says India to China network firms
17 May 2010 Daniel Shane


Government won't lift ban on Chinese networking gear until vendors disclose ownership, as source links them to People's Liberation Army

The Indian government has demanded that Chinese networking firms Huawei and ZTE produce details of their ownership within one month if they are to lift the current ban on importing their equipment, the Wall Street Journal reports.

Earlier this month, authorities imposed an effective embargo on local telecommunications operators importing Chinese-made technology on grounds of national security.

Following a meeting between representatives from ZTE and the Indian Home Secretary late last week, the vendors have reportedly been issued with a deadline for disclosing the precise nature of their ownership.

At present, the Department of Telecommunications itself is not forbidding the import of Chinese gear, but all individual procurement requests are routinely being blocked by India's Ministry of Home Affairs, with one unnamed official claiming the government has uncovered alarming information regarding the ownership of ZTE and Huawei.

"We have evidence that the two companies are owned by the PLA (People's Liberation Army) of China, and India's security concerns are well-founded," the anonymous source told Dow Jones Newswires.

Shenzhen-based Huawei's founder Ren Zhengfei is a former officer of the PLA and it is this fact that is commonly cited as one of the main reasons why the company's attempted acquisition of US networking equipment vendor 3Com eventually collapsed.

Huawei neither confirmed nor denied the presence of a ban on its technology for use by Indian carriers. "We are not able to comment on any specific measures taken or contemplated," Ross Gan, global head of corporate communication, told the Wall Street Journal.

Last week, a separate company spokesperson told Reuters that Huawei was considering building an India-based manufacturing plant in a bid to allay its neighbour's security fears.

Security tensions between the two Asian giants remains an ongoing issue. In November 2009, Indian authorities reportedly told state-run telco Bharat Sanchar Nigam not to use Chinese equipment in politically sensitive regions, such as those areas bordering Pakistan, Bangladesh and Myanmar.

In April this year, Indian officials blamed attempted cybersecurity breaches targeted at the India Defense Ministry and the Dalai Lama's office on Chinese hackers.

http://www.information-age.com/channels/comms-and-networking/news/1254933/tell-us-who-owns-you-says-india-to-china-network-firms.thtml


Rumours are thick in india that Chidu and ex-nsa(each others bete noire)in a rare moment of unity have agreed to unanimously boot the chinese out in the competition.Both are heavy weights in the PMO and GOI.IF that is so the chinese can kiss goodbye to the indian market

 

[nandu]

Nod to allow import of telecom equipment after certification

In a move that could help several cellular operators, the government has agreed to allow import of telecom equipment certified by international security audit firms.

The Department of Telecom is preparing the modalities for the import of sensitive telecom gears to which the Ministry of Home Affairs agreed to.

The move will prove to be a breather for Chinese vendors like Huawei and ZTE, as well as Indian telcos like Reliance Communications and Tata Teleservices that are looking for cost-effective telecom gear to expand their networks.

As per the proposal, telecom companies will be allowed to import the equipment from foreign suppliers only after an International Certification Agency visits the plant of the vendor and gives a security clearance.

India currently does not have any Certification Agency so it was planning to rope in eight such international bodies to carry out the task.

The Mobile operators who intend to import telecom equipment have to give a bank guarantee to the Department of Communication. The operators will be liable to forfeit their bank guarantee and may also face criminal proceedings, if any security threats are detected in the equipment at a later stage.

The stopgap solution, which will be in place for the next 12 months, will ensure that Indian telcos do not face project delays.

The government, in the meantime, will initiate the process to set up an indigenous Certification Agency of international standard.

http://beta.thehindu.com/business/Industry/article444776.ece

 

[badguy2000]

Nod to allow import of telecom equipment after certification

In a move that could help several cellular operators, the government has agreed to allow import of telecom equipment certified by international security audit firms.

The Department of Telecom is preparing the modalities for the import of sensitive telecom gears to which the Ministry of Home Affairs agreed to.

The move will prove to be a breather for Chinese vendors like Huawei and ZTE, as well as Indian telcos like Reliance Communications and Tata Teleservices that are looking for cost-effective telecom gear to expand their networks.

As per the proposal, telecom companies will be allowed to import the equipment from foreign suppliers only after an International Certification Agency visits the plant of the vendor and gives a security clearance.

India currently does not have any Certification Agency so it was planning to rope in eight such international bodies to carry out the task.

The Mobile operators who intend to import telecom equipment have to give a bank guarantee to the Department of Communication. The operators will be liable to forfeit their bank guarantee and may also face criminal proceedings, if any security threats are detected in the equipment at a later stage.

The stopgap solution, which will be in place for the next 12 months, will ensure that Indian telcos do not face project delays.

The government, in the meantime, will initiate the process to set up an indigenous Certification Agency of international standard.

http://beta.thehindu.com/business/Industry/article444776.ece

well, it is hight time for Nokia and Simense to blackmail India...ahahahah