Chinese Expansionism in Russia with a Twist - Russia Annoyed!

[sorcerer]

China Eyes Land Giveaway Program in Russia's Far East

Despite Russian concerns, Chinese media predict a new "homestead act" will boost Chinese migration to the Far East.

Russian president Vladimir Putin has offered his support to a "homestead act" that will offer free land to anyone willing to move to Russia's Far East, Russian media reported last week.

According to RT, the original plan came from Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Trutnev, who is also the presidential envoy to Russia's Far East Federal District. Trutnev suggested that Russia provide one hectare (2.5 acres) of free land "to every resident of the Far East and to anyone who is willing to come and live in the region so that they could start a private business in farming, forestry, game hunting or some other enterprise." The government currently owns 614 million hectares of land in the Far East, some of which would be redistributed to citizens under the plan.

Putin reportedly offered his support for the idea, noting that similar programs had worked in the past. With Putin on board, Moscow Times reports, Far East Development Minister Alexander Galushka believes the program could start as early as this year.

With the new plan, Trutnev hopes to "strengthen the tendency of people's migration to the Far East." Russia's Far East, though rich in resources, has long been underpopulated and underdeveloped. The Far East Federal District covers a total land area of roughly 6.2 million square kilometers but has a population of just under 6.3 million, giving the region a population density of around one person per square kilometer. Of those 6.3 million, almost 75 percent are concentrated in cities; the new plan would specifically seek to encourage settlement of land located far away from urban areas.

The new plan has attracted attention in China, with China Daily predicting an increased number of Chinese migrants hoping to take advantage of the new policy. The state-run media outlet says Chinese immigrants could lease the land from its new owners. The report focused in particular on agriculture, noting that an influx of migrants could help develop Russia's Far East into "the main exporter of green food to China."

Russia, however, is wary of Chinese (or other) migrants pouring into its sparsely populated Far East. Trutnev noted that his plan was designed to prevent the free land from being sold to foreign companies and individuals. Moscow Times called this "an important consideration" as "Chinese, Japanese, and South Korean companies are gradually making inroads" into Russia's Far East.

Russia's Federal Migration Service is especially wary of an influx of Chinese migrants across the Russia-China border. It has warned that Chinese could become the largest ethnic group in Russia's Far East by the 2020s or 2030s; last summer a border official said that 1.5 million Chinese illegally entered Russia's Far East from January 2013 to June 2014. In part, then, the new "homestead act" may be designed to prevent Chinese dominance in the region, as Moscow hopes to encourage new migration into the area by Russian citizens.

Yet despite some nervousness about an increased number of Chinese migrants, overall Moscow is encouraging China to play a role in developing its Far East, particularly when it comes to making necessary investments in infrastructure development. Just last December, Trutnev traveled to China to brief Beijing on plans for the Far East development zone. During his time in Beijing, Russia and China pledged to cooperate on the project.

At the same time, Moscow wants to hedge against overdependence on China in this regard. Russia also hopes to revitalize its northeast by coaxing North Korea to allow goods to travel into more lucrative markets in South Korea – a pipeline and railroad connecting Russia and the Koreas are both on Moscow's wish-list.


China Eyes Land Giveaway Program in Russia's Far East | The Diplomat
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[roma]

why not balance it off with inviting people from South America, Iran, India, Indonesia, Middle-East,
Nigeria or indeed any over-populated or under-developed country,
to take that opportunity in the Russian Far East . ..... that way
no one nationality would be over-represented . . . . -safer for the Russian nation

 

[Peter]

Russia should open up its border to Indians and relax immigration rules. Indians in Russia form a miniscule percentage of the total population compared to Indians in UK/Canada/USA.

 

[Razor]

I think headline is misleading: Both the thread headline and the article headline.

As I understand, this piece of legislation which has got verbal approval from Putin (but not implemented yet) is designed to increase immigration of Russians to the Far-East Federal District. This in turn is to prevent the increasing (long term) influence of Japan, Korea and most importantly illegal immigration China.

The idea of the act is to provide 1 hectare of land to Russians. This land will be away from cities, and for a certain period of time (5 years.)
If the land is developed and used in this time frame, then the land will be given to the person, else he might be evicted.

The possible benefit for the Chinese (and Koreans, Japanese etc.) is that increased population means increased business, which means increased opportunities for the former.

And finally Russia is trying to increase investment in the Far-East Federal district from various countries including China, and the attitude of local Russians in the Far-East Federal dist., toward the Chinese is more positive as compared to russians in other federal districts of russia.

 

[Razor]

why not balance it off with inviting people from South America, Iran, India, Indonesia, Middle-East,
Nigeria or indeed any over-populated or under-developed country,
to take that opportunity in the Russian Far East . ..... that way
no one nationality would be over-represented . . . . -safer for the Russian nation

I don't think Russia is looking for a repeat of French situation.
Multiculturalism usually doesn't work, at lest not in europe.
Take a look at the rise of far-right in Europe to see why.
If immigrating populations do not adopt one of the native cultures it will cause friction, as is being demonstrated in Europe.

 

[sorcerer]

I think headline is misleading: Both the thread headline and the article headline.

As I understand, this piece of legislation which has got verbal approval from Putin (but not implemented yet) is designed to increase immigration of Russians to the Far-East Federal District. This in turn is to prevent the increasing (long term) influence of Japan, Korea and most importantly illegal immigration China.

The idea of the act is to provide 1 hectare of land to Russians. This land will be away from cities, and for a certain period of time (5 years.)
If the land is developed and used in this time frame, then the land will be given to the person, else he might be evicted.

The possible benefit for the Chinese (and Koreans, Japanese etc.) is that increased population means increased business, which means increased opportunities for the former.

And finally Russia is trying to increase investment in the Far-East Federal district from various countries including China, and the attitude of local Russians in the Far-East Federal dist., toward the Chinese is more positive as compared to russians in other federal districts of russia.

Well..The headline was larger than the stipulated title length.SO I had to rephrase it.
CHinese is more positive and is leasing them from RUssians; which exactly what RUssians dont want.
What the article pointed out is a definite Pattern of Chinese influx which could in future lead to skirmishes.

 

[asianobserve]

Russia should open up its border to Indians and relax immigration rules. Indians in Russia form a miniscule percentage of the total population compared to Indians in UK/Canada/USA.

Judging from my Russian friends here, that may not turn out well for Russia for even the most die hard Russophiles would rather stay in the US than Russia.

And it is in Russia's Far East, they will be ice creamed before they last one year there...

 

[Razor]

Well..The headline was larger than the stipulated title length.SO I had to rephrase it.
CHinese is more positive and is leasing them from RUssians; which exactly what RUssians dont want.
What the article pointed out is a definite Pattern of Chinese influx which could in future lead to skirmishes.

That goes without saying.
Considering Russia's population, these seem like desperate measure. On one side of border you have small cities and a few million people on the other side there tens of millions in massive cities. This is making russia a bit worried.
Although Chinese are moving in both legally and illegally, demographic shift which alters the dominant ethnicity (russian) is unlikely.
It is doubtful that Russia's grip over Sibieria will loosen, but current situation in europe (ukr) means china is in advantageous position.

 

[Razor]

Judging from my Russian friends here, that may not turn out well for Russia for even the most die hard Russophiles would rather stay in the US than Russia.

And it is in Russia's Far East, they will be ice creamed before they last one year there...

People do live there in spite of the cold. And I think this legislation is directed mostly at russians.
And it is unclear how the current warming trend is going to affect the region, because the entire of Siberia is a massive chunk of permafrost.

 

[sorcerer]

That goes without saying.
Considering Russia's population, these seem like desperate measure. On one side of border you have small cities and a few million people on the other side there tens of millions in massive cities. This is making russia a bit worried.
Although Chinese are moving in both legally and illegally, demographic shift which alters the dominant ethnicity (russian) is unlikely.
It is doubtful that Russia's grip over Sibieria will loosen, but current situation in europe (ukr) means china is in advantageous position.

Thats why I posted the graphic with the camel and the tent! A well known Chinese attitude !

 

[Ray]

Russia far East is populated by Turkic, Eskimo–Aleut, Chukotko-Kamchatkan, Tungusic stocks and some non denomimation Yukaghirs, Nivkhs, and Ainus. The majority are nomadic people and quite a few are animists. There are also those who are of Mongol stock and have connection with Mongolia and Inner Mongolia of China. The Russia and European influence is marginal.

Therefore, it is prone to subversion by either Japan (since there is a section of population who are of Japanese descent) and China (which is always on the prowl to annexe territory which are prime for annexing).

As I have stated before, Russia may look at China and will improve trade and technology sales to China for economic reasons, yet Russia is very apprehensive of China's hegemonic pursuits and territorial annexation. The Ussuri and Amur conflict ghost always haunts Russia of Chinese intents.

By encouraging European Russia stock into the Far East. Russia will be ensuring that the Chinese threat is countered and Russia's apprehensions reduced.

 

[amoy]

Historically there were millions of Japanese, Koreans and Chinese in the Far East of Russia.

In August 1945, after repudiating the Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact, the Soviet Union invaded southern Sakhalin. The Soviet attack started on August 11, 1945, a few days before the surrender of Japan. The Soviet 56th Rifle Corps, part of the 16th Army, consisting of the 79th Rifle Division, the 2nd Rifle Brigade, the 5th Rifle Brigade and the 214 Armored Brigade,[11] attacked the Japanese 88th Infantry Division. Although the Soviet Red Army outnumbered the Japanese by three to one, they advanced only slowly due to strong Japanese resistance. It was not until the 113th Rifle Brigade and the 365th Independent Naval Infantry Rifle Battalion from Sovetskaya Gavan landed on Tōro, a seashore village of western Karafuto on August 16 that the Soviets broke the Japanese defense line. Japanese resistance grew weaker after this landing. Actual fighting continued until August 21. From August 22 to August 23, most remaining Japanese units agreed to a ceasefire. The Soviets completed the conquest of Karafuto on August 25, 1945 by occupying the capital of Toyohara.

Of the approximately 400,000 people - mostly Japanese and Korean - who lived on South Sakhalin in 1944, about 100,000 were evacuated to Japan during the last days of the war. The remaining 300,000 stayed behind, some for several more years.[12] While the vast majority of Sakhalin Japanese and Koreans were gradually repatriated between 1946 and 1950, tens of thousands of Sakhalin Koreans (and a number of their Japanese spouses) remained in the Soviet Union.[13][14]

No final peace treaty has been signed and the status of four neighboring islands remains disputed. Japan renounced its claims of sovereignty over southern Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands in the Treaty of San Francisco (1951), but claims that four islands currently administered by Russia were not subject to this renunciation. Japan has granted mutual exchange visas for Japanese and Ainu families divided by the change in status. Recently, economic and political cooperation has gradually improved between the two nations despite disagreements.[15]

Sakhalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Each village had a district forestry system, a marine product examination center, salmon hatchery, post office, police station, elementary school, Shinto temple, and other public facilities. In 1930, 8,300 people lived on Kunashiri island and 6,000 on Etorofu island, and most of them were engaged in coastal and high sea fishing.

There were 17,291 Japanese islanders on the Kurils.[citation needed]

Kuril Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Most of Koreans were exiled to Central Asia during WW2 for fear of their "collaboration with Japanese" (Korea had become a Japanese colony). Many died in purges.

Having given up S. Sakhalin Japanese still holds fast to their claim of S. Kurils (so-called " northern territories"). Japanese cartoon on "not to forget northern territories" :shocked:

 

[Razor]

Historically there were millions of Japanese, Koreans and Chinese in the Far East of Russia.


Sakhalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kuril Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Most of Koreans were exiled to Central Asia during WW2 for fear of their "collaboration with Japanese" (Korea had become a Japanese colony). Many died in purges.

Having given up S. Sakhalin Japanese still holds fast to their claim of S. Kurils (so-called " northern territories"). Japanese cartoon on "not to forget northern territories" :shocked:

Historically there were millions of Chinese, Koreans and Japanese ??

Your quoted text says there were 400k Japanese and koreans in South Sakhalin (which is an island off the coast of mainland russia).
But what about the "millions" of Chinese ? And what exactly you mean by chinese ? Sure, there were significant nos. of jurchen (manchu) and mongolic tribes, but "millions" ??? and of han too ?

Koreans are still a significant ethnic group in Sakhalin, I guess.

Also the Japnese had good chance of solving kurile islands problem, but they lost the chance as they had to obey uncle's commands with regards to russia.

 

[Razor]

Russia far East is populated by Turkic, Eskimo–Aleut, Chukotko-Kamchatkan, Tungusic stocks and some non denomimation Yukaghirs, Nivkhs, and Ainus. The majority are nomadic people and quite a few are animists. There are also those who are of Mongol stock and have connection with Mongolia and Inner Mongolia of China. The Russia and European influence is marginal.

Therefore, it is prone to subversion by either Japan (since there is a section of population who are of Japanese descent) and China (which is always on the prowl to annexe territory which are prime for annexing).

As I have stated before, Russia may look at China and will improve trade and technology sales to China for economic reasons, yet Russia is very apprehensive of China's hegemonic pursuits and territorial annexation. The Ussuri and Amur conflict ghost always haunts Russia of Chinese intents.

By encouraging European Russia stock into the Far East. Russia will be ensuring that the Chinese threat is countered and Russia's apprehensions reduced.

In spite of all those ethnic groups in Siberia, Russians are still the majority in most provinces of Siberian and Far-Eastern Federal Districts.
Russians are majority in every province it borders with china. The only siberian provinces with international border, where they aren't majority are the Buryat republic and tuva republic (both bordering buffer state mongolia.)

But as you said, I guess this "homestead act" is to bring in more ethnic russians into the region because inspite of being majority, their numbers are still just a few million in a few cities, while on other side (heilongjiang) there are ten of millions of chinese.

 

[amoy]

Historically there were millions of Chinese, Koreans and Japanese ??

Your quoted text says there were 400k Japanese and koreans in South Sakhalin (which is an island off the coast of mainland russia).
But what about the "millions" of Chinese ? And what exactly you mean by chinese ? Sure, there were significant nos. of jurchen (manchu) and mongolic tribes, but "millions" ??? and of han too ?

Koreans are still a significant ethnic group in Sakhalin, I guess.

Also the Japnese had good chance of solving kurile islands problem, but they lost the chance as they had to obey uncle's commands with regards to russia.

how amusing u an Indian question me like a spokesman of Russia!?

let me show u the numbers , apart from the 400k Japanese on Sakhalin + Kurils (also part of THEIR far east)

Approximately 500,000 ethnic Koreans reside in the former Soviet Union, primarily in the now-independent states of Central Asia. There are also large Korean communities in southern Russia (around Volgograd), the Caucasus, and southern Ukraine. These communities can be traced back to the Koreans who were living in the Russian Far East during the late 19th century.

There is also a separate ethnic Korean community on the island of Sakhalin, typically referred to as Sakhalin Koreans. Some may identify as Koryo-saram, but many do not. Unlike the communities on the Russian mainland, which consist mostly of immigrants from the late 19th century and early 20th century, the ancestors of the Sakhalin Koreans came as immigrants from Gyeongsang and Jeolla provinces in the late 1930s and early 1940s, forced into service by the Japanese government to work in coal mines in Sakhalin (then known as Karafuto Prefecture) in order to fill labour shortages caused by World War II.[3]

In 1937, facing reports from the NKVD that the Japanese had infiltrated the Russian Far East by means of ethnic Korean spies, Joseph Stalin and Vyacheslav Molotov signed Resolution 1428-326 ss, "On the Exile of the Korean Population from border Raions of the Far East Kray", on 21 August.[14] This order gave Koreans the option of crossing the border into Manchukuo or Japanese-colonised Korea, or face administrative exile to Central Asia. Few took the former option. According to the report of Nikolai Yezhov, 36,442 Korean families totalling 171,781 persons were deported by 25 October.[15]

Koryo-saram - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the First All-Union Census of the Soviet Union, conducted in 1926, 100,000 respondents declared that they held Chinese nationality or that Chinese was their primary language; three-quarters of these were in the Russian Far East. Vladivostok was 22% Chinese, and even Moscow had a community of roughly 8,000 Chinese, largely of Shandong origin, who ran laundries, bakeries, and knitwear shops, as well as engaging in streetside peddling. Outside of the cities, others engaged in mining and opium cultivation. Under the New Economic Policy, they spread out into other urban centres, including Novosibirsk and Barnaul.[17]

Ethnic Chinese in Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even based on the above census / open sources 400k + 500k + 100k that was already 1 million of Japanese, Korean and Chinese back then!

It's very a bad habit of u to distort as millions of Chinese while leaking Koreans and Japanese in the full text.

 

[Razor]

how amusing u an Indian question me like a spokesman of Russia!?

Well, it is an open thread so if you can make a statement on this thread, why can't I.

let me show u the numbers , apart from the 400k Japanese on Sakhalin + Kurils (also part of THEIR far east)



Koryo-saram - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ethnic Chinese in Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even based on the above census / open sources 400k + 500k + 100k that was already 1 million of Japanese, Korean and Chinese back then!

It's very a bad habit of u to distort as millions of Chinese while leaking Koreans and Japanese in the full text.

You said millions of Chinese, koreans and japanese. So I thought you meant there were millions of Chinese and also of koreans and also of japanese.

But the numbers you show in above quotes seem to show 75k (three-quarter of 100k) chinese in Far-East, and 400k japnese and koreans.

Also these 75k "chinese" in Far-East russia, were the manchu and mongol tribes or were they han, any info on that ? My guess is they were mostly Mongol and manchu tribes.

Btw I think that 500k number you have used above cannot be used in this calculation because it is the number of koreans present in post soviet states in the present date, not in the past.

So, in effect just 400k+ 75k= 475k rather than your claimed "millions."

Also I don't understand your last statement.
I distorted something ?
And what you mean by "leaking koreans..."

 

[Ray]

Far Eastern Federal District (highlighted)

Russian Far East is said to have 6.3 million people which translates to slightly less than one person per square kilometer.

It is the most sparsely populated areas in the world and hence vulnerable.

Though Russians and Ukrainians are the majority, they are mostly in urban areas. That means that most of the area is not populated with Russians or Ukrainians.

There has been significant drop in population of Russian European population and this homestead act is seen to be a measure to populate the area with Russians.

There is a sizeable Chinese community in urban areas of Khabarovsk, Vladivostok, and Ussuriys in the Russian Far East.

Then there are the Chinese contract workers (Larin, Victor (2006), "Chinese in the Russian Far East: Regional views")

Further, this is of interest from Harvard International Review of July 2012

In June 2010, the Xinhua News Agency reported that China had leased a total of 426,600 hectares in the Jewish Autonomous Oblast (District) – popularly known as Birobidzhan – and the Khabarovsk region of Russia to Chinese farmers. This has caught Russian nationalists' attention; they have called the arrival of waves of farmers the beginning of "the Chinese conquest" of Siberia.

A floating population of tens of thousands Chinese traders and seasonal workers continually moves back and forth across the border, one of the longest in the world. The immigrants settle not only in border areas but increasingly deeper into Russian territory, and some backlash is imminent. These developments raise several questions for Russia as to the migration's impact, China's long-term plans for Siberia, and potential Chinese dominance in the region.

Alexander Shaikin, in charge of controlling the Russian-Chinese border, said on June 29 that 1.5 million people from China have illegally entered the Russian Far East over the past 18 months.

It's impossible to know the exact level of Chinese migration into the Russian Far East; Russia has not run a census in over a decade. But by all indications, a significant river of people is surging across the border.

The Moscow Carnegie Center, the only organization to launch an independent study, claimed that there were about 250,000 Chinese in Russia in 1997. The Interior Ministry has claimed that there are 2 million. Other estimates place the Chinese population at 5 million.

Regardless, the Federal Migration Service fears a flood. The service has repeatedly warned that the Chinese could become the dominant ethnic group in the Russian Far East in 20 to 30 years. Such an occurrence would require an annual influx of about 250,000 to 300,000 Chinese, less than one-third the rate that Shaikin currently claims.

China Looks the Other Way

There are reasons to believe that the flow will hit these levels, with at least tacit help from Beijing. The Russian Far East is becoming China's safety valve, much like Mexico lets off population pressures with migration into the United States. China has more than 1.2 billion people — more than eight times Russia's population. Only 7.4 million Russians populate the entire Russian Far East, versus more than 70 million in northeast China. The Russian Far East is comparatively empty, with only 1.3 people per kilometer. China's Manchurian population has increased 13 percent in a little more than a decade.

Any kind of Chinese expansion into the region will eventually bring about a question: What is Beijing's claim there? Most of the border region — an area roughly the size of Iran — used to be Chinese. Russia took the territory in 1858 and 1860 with the Treaties of Aigun and Peking, respectively. Of all of the unequal treaties forced upon the Qing dynasty by outside powers in the 19th century, these are the only two China has not managed to overcome. China and Russia signed a border agreement in 1999, but the Beijing government has never formally accepted the Aigun and Peking treaties.

Valuable Ports and Resources

The Russian Far East also holds resources that are valuable to an ever-growing China. The region is rich in natural resources such as oil, gas and timber. It is easier to send these goods to Asia instead of shipping them 3,000 miles to Moscow. The size of the Russian work force is shrinking as the country grows older. China's young — and growing — population is more than able to fill the gap and exploit these resources.

But there is no reason to believe that, over time, Moscow will simply let the region slip from its grasp. The territory at stake includes all of Russia's access to the Pacific Ocean. Vladivostok is Russia's only warm-water Pacific port. Nikolayevsk, at the mouth of the Amur River, processes most of Siberia's remaining exports. Both are well within former Chinese territory.

The local Russian population is increasingly nervous. The governor of Primoskiy Kray, Yevgenii Nazdratenko, on June 1 called for relocating 5 million Russians from European Russia to the Far East.

Police in Russian cities are responding with aggressive ethnic profiling. Law enforcement personnel check the documentation of foreigners, and they actively target ethnic Asians. The policy results from a widespread feeling — as far away as St. Petersburg — that China is the source of undesirable immigration.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=82969

Russia sure that reasons to be worried.

China is doing a 'Bangladeshi illegal immigrants turned Indians' on Russia with the Chinese illegals into Russia.

And soon China will whip out an 'ancient' map rubbed in mud to show authenticity and claim all the Russian areas as China's glorious lands snatched by imperialist Russia.

 

[asianobserve]

Judging from my Russian friends here, that may not turn out well for Russia for even the most die hard Russophiles would rather stay in the US than Russia.

And it is in Russia's Far East, they will be ice creamed before they last one year there...

Correction: "Indian friends"

 

[amoy]

It's nothing new Russia has always been importing labor >> Russia, North Korea to sign agreement on migrant labor / Sputnik International

North Korea is fourth among countries outside the former U.S.S.R. in terms of the number of labor migrants working in Russia. In 2004, about 15,000 North Koreans worked in Russia, in 2005, more than 20,000, and in 2006, over 21,700.

"The implementation of the agreement's provisions will make possible the normalization of the process of attracting and using the labor of North Korean and Russian citizens carrying out labor activity in both states, increase their social protection and strengthen the guarantees that their rights as workers are observed," the government said.

Now perhaps more Russians relocate to the west for opportunities than those who migrate from the European part to the Far East with harsh living conditions .

Separately I have mentioned how S. Korea regulates their foreign contract labour like Nepalis as well as Korean Chinese. Likewise Japanese are "importing" many Chinese and Mongols by means of students visa etc..

Canada is also sparsely populated and hugely energy sector based economically. Only that Canadians (in a more open society) are so much obsessed with cultural "homongeneity and superiority". As a matter of fact Russia has been quite multi-cultural throughout its expansion.

 

[Gabriel92]

The Russians do not like every person that isn't white,or look european,and people are talking about importing chinese indians or whatever.
The govt will probably accept that,but what about the population ?