Chinese Expansionism in Russia with a Twist - Russia Annoyed!

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by sorcerer, Jan 28, 2015.

  1. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    China Eyes Land Giveaway Program in Russia’s Far East

    Despite Russian concerns, Chinese media predict a new “homestead act” will boost Chinese migration to the Far East.

    Russian president Vladimir Putin has offered his support to a “homestead act” that will offer free land to anyone willing to move to Russia’s Far East, Russian media reported last week.

    According to RT, the original plan came from Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Trutnev, who is also the presidential envoy to Russia’s Far East Federal District. Trutnev suggested that Russia provide one hectare (2.5 acres) of free land “to every resident of the Far East and to anyone who is willing to come and live in the region so that they could start a private business in farming, forestry, game hunting or some other enterprise.”
    The government currently owns 614 million hectares of land in the Far East, some of which would be redistributed to citizens under the plan.

    Putin reportedly offered his support for the idea, noting that similar programs had worked in the past. With Putin on board, Moscow Times reports, Far East Development Minister Alexander Galushka believes the program could start as early as this year.

    With the new plan, Trutnev hopes to “strengthen the tendency of people’s migration to the Far East.” Russia’s Far East, though rich in resources, has long been underpopulated and underdeveloped. The Far East Federal District covers a total land area of roughly 6.2 million square kilometers but has a population of just under 6.3 million, giving the region a population density of around one person per square kilometer. Of those 6.3 million, almost 75 percent are concentrated in cities; the new plan would specifically seek to encourage settlement of land located far away from urban areas.

    The new plan has attracted attention in China, with China Daily predicting an increased number of Chinese migrants hoping to take advantage of the new policy. The state-run media outlet says Chinese immigrants could lease the land from its new owners. The report focused in particular on agriculture, noting that an influx of migrants could help develop Russia’s Far East into “the main exporter of green food to China.”

    Russia, however, is wary of Chinese (or other) migrants pouring into its sparsely populated Far East. Trutnev noted that his plan was designed to prevent the free land from being sold to foreign companies and individuals. Moscow Times called this “an important consideration” as “Chinese, Japanese, and South Korean companies are gradually making inroads” into Russia’s Far East.

    Russia’s Federal Migration Service is especially wary of an influx of Chinese migrants across the Russia-China border. It has warned that Chinese could become the largest ethnic group in Russia’s Far East by the 2020s or 2030s; last summer a border official said that 1.5 million Chinese illegally entered Russia’s Far East from January 2013 to June 2014. In part, then, the new “homestead act” may be designed to prevent Chinese dominance in the region, as Moscow hopes to encourage new migration into the area by Russian citizens.

    Yet despite some nervousness about an increased number of Chinese migrants, overall Moscow is encouraging China to play a role in developing its Far East, particularly when it comes to making necessary investments in infrastructure development. Just last December, Trutnev traveled to China to brief Beijing on plans for the Far East development zone. During his time in Beijing, Russia and China pledged to cooperate on the project.

    At the same time, Moscow wants to hedge against overdependence on China in this regard. Russia also hopes to revitalize its northeast by coaxing North Korea to allow goods to travel into more lucrative markets in South Korea – a pipeline and railroad connecting Russia and the Koreas are both on Moscow’s wish-list.


    China Eyes Land Giveaway Program in Russia’s Far East | The Diplomat
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  3. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    why not balance it off with inviting people from South America, Iran, India, Indonesia, Middle-East,
    Nigeria or indeed any over-populated or under-developed country,
    to take that opportunity in the Russian Far East . ..... that way
    no one nationality would be over-represented . . . . -safer for the Russian nation
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
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  4. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    Russia should open up its border to Indians and relax immigration rules. Indians in Russia form a miniscule percentage of the total population compared to Indians in UK/Canada/USA.
     
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  5. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    I think headline is misleading: Both the thread headline and the article headline.

    As I understand, this piece of legislation which has got verbal approval from Putin (but not implemented yet) is designed to increase immigration of Russians to the Far-East Federal District. This in turn is to prevent the increasing (long term) influence of Japan, Korea and most importantly illegal immigration China.

    The idea of the act is to provide 1 hectare of land to Russians. This land will be away from cities, and for a certain period of time (5 years.)
    If the land is developed and used in this time frame, then the land will be given to the person, else he might be evicted.

    The possible benefit for the Chinese (and Koreans, Japanese etc.) is that increased population means increased business, which means increased opportunities for the former.

    And finally Russia is trying to increase investment in the Far-East Federal district from various countries including China, and the attitude of local Russians in the Far-East Federal dist., toward the Chinese is more positive as compared to russians in other federal districts of russia.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  6. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    I don't think Russia is looking for a repeat of French situation.
    Multiculturalism usually doesn't work, at lest not in europe.
    Take a look at the rise of far-right in Europe to see why.
    If immigrating populations do not adopt one of the native cultures it will cause friction, as is being demonstrated in Europe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  7. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well..The headline was larger than the stipulated title length.SO I had to rephrase it.
    CHinese is more positive and is leasing them from RUssians; which exactly what RUssians dont want.
    What the article pointed out is a definite Pattern of Chinese influx which could in future lead to skirmishes.
     
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  8. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Judging from my Russian friends here, that may not turn out well for Russia for even the most die hard Russophiles would rather stay in the US than Russia. :rolleyes:

    And it is in Russia's Far East, they will be ice creamed before they last one year there...
     
  9. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    That goes without saying.
    Considering Russia's population, these seem like desperate measure. On one side of border you have small cities and a few million people on the other side there tens of millions in massive cities. This is making russia a bit worried.
    Although Chinese are moving in both legally and illegally, demographic shift which alters the dominant ethnicity (russian) is unlikely.
    It is doubtful that Russia's grip over Sibieria will loosen, but current situation in europe (ukr) means china is in advantageous position.
     
  10. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    People do live there in spite of the cold. And I think this legislation is directed mostly at russians.
    And it is unclear how the current warming trend is going to affect the region, because the entire of Siberia is a massive chunk of permafrost.
     
  11. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Thats why I posted the graphic with the camel and the tent! A well known Chinese attitude !
     
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  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Russia far East is populated by Turkic, Eskimo–Aleut, Chukotko-Kamchatkan, Tungusic stocks and some non denomimation Yukaghirs, Nivkhs, and Ainus. The majority are nomadic people and quite a few are animists. There are also those who are of Mongol stock and have connection with Mongolia and Inner Mongolia of China. The Russia and European influence is marginal.

    Therefore, it is prone to subversion by either Japan (since there is a section of population who are of Japanese descent) and China (which is always on the prowl to annexe territory which are prime for annexing).

    As I have stated before, Russia may look at China and will improve trade and technology sales to China for economic reasons, yet Russia is very apprehensive of China's hegemonic pursuits and territorial annexation. The Ussuri and Amur conflict ghost always haunts Russia of Chinese intents.

    By encouraging European Russia stock into the Far East. Russia will be ensuring that the Chinese threat is countered and Russia's apprehensions reduced.
     
  13. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Historically there were millions of Japanese, Koreans and Chinese in the Far East of Russia.

    Sakhalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Kuril Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Most of Koreans were exiled to Central Asia during WW2 for fear of their "collaboration with Japanese" (Korea had become a Japanese colony). Many died in purges.

    Having given up S. Sakhalin Japanese still holds fast to their claim of S. Kurils (so-called " northern territories"). Japanese cartoon on "not to forget northern territories” :shocked:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Historically there were millions of Chinese, Koreans and Japanese ??

    Your quoted text says there were 400k Japanese and koreans in South Sakhalin (which is an island off the coast of mainland russia).
    But what about the "millions" of Chinese ? And what exactly you mean by chinese ? Sure, there were significant nos. of jurchen (manchu) and mongolic tribes, but "millions" ??? and of han too ? :)

    Koreans are still a significant ethnic group in Sakhalin, I guess.

    Also the Japnese had good chance of solving kurile islands problem, but they lost the chance as they had to obey uncle's commands with regards to russia.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  15. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    In spite of all those ethnic groups in Siberia, Russians are still the majority in most provinces of Siberian and Far-Eastern Federal Districts.
    Russians are majority in every province it borders with china. The only siberian provinces with international border, where they aren't majority are the Buryat republic and tuva republic (both bordering buffer state mongolia.)

    But as you said, I guess this "homestead act" is to bring in more ethnic russians into the region because inspite of being majority, their numbers are still just a few million in a few cities, while on other side (heilongjiang) there are ten of millions of chinese.
     
  16. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    how amusing u an Indian question me like a spokesman of Russia!? :tsk:

    let me show u the numbers , apart from the 400k Japanese on Sakhalin + Kurils (also part of THEIR far east)

    Koryo-saram - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Ethnic Chinese in Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Even based on the above census / open sources 400k + 500k + 100k that was already 1 million of Japanese, Korean and Chinese back then!
    :mad:
    It's very a bad habit of u to distort as millions of Chinese while leaking Koreans and Japanese in the full text.
     
  17. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Well, it is an open thread so if you can make a statement on this thread, why can't I.

    You said millions of Chinese, koreans and japanese. So I thought you meant there were millions of Chinese and also of koreans and also of japanese.

    But the numbers you show in above quotes seem to show 75k (three-quarter of 100k) chinese in Far-East, and 400k japnese and koreans.

    Also these 75k "chinese" in Far-East russia, were the manchu and mongol tribes or were they han, any info on that ? My guess is they were mostly Mongol and manchu tribes.

    Btw I think that 500k number you have used above cannot be used in this calculation because it is the number of koreans present in post soviet states in the present date, not in the past.

    So, in effect just 400k+ 75k= 475k rather than your claimed "millions."

    Also I don't understand your last statement.
    I distorted something ? :confused:
    And what you mean by "leaking koreans..."
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    [​IMG]
    Far Eastern Federal District (highlighted)

    Russian Far East is said to have 6.3 million people which translates to slightly less than one person per square kilometer.

    It is the most sparsely populated areas in the world and hence vulnerable.

    Though Russians and Ukrainians are the majority, they are mostly in urban areas. That means that most of the area is not populated with Russians or Ukrainians.

    There has been significant drop in population of Russian European population and this homestead act is seen to be a measure to populate the area with Russians.

    There is a sizeable Chinese community in urban areas of Khabarovsk, Vladivostok, and Ussuriys in the Russian Far East.

    Then there are the Chinese contract workers (Larin, Victor (2006), "Chinese in the Russian Far East: Regional views")

    Further, this is of interest from Harvard International Review of July 2012

    Russia sure that reasons to be worried.

    China is doing a 'Bangladeshi illegal immigrants turned Indians' on Russia with the Chinese illegals into Russia.

    And soon China will whip out an 'ancient' map rubbed in mud to show authenticity and claim all the Russian areas as China's glorious lands snatched by imperialist Russia.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
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  19. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Correction: "Indian friends"
     
  20. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    It's nothing new Russia has always been importing labor >> Russia, North Korea to sign agreement on migrant labor / Sputnik International
    Now perhaps more Russians relocate to the west for opportunities than those who migrate from the European part to the Far East with harsh living conditions .

    Separately I have mentioned how S. Korea regulates their foreign contract labour like Nepalis as well as Korean Chinese. Likewise Japanese are "importing" many Chinese and Mongols by means of students visa etc..

    Canada is also sparsely populated and hugely energy sector based economically. Only that Canadians (in a more open society) are so much obsessed with cultural "homongeneity and superiority". As a matter of fact Russia has been quite multi-cultural throughout its expansion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  21. Gabriel92

    Gabriel92 Regular Member

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    The Russians do not like every person that isn't white,or look european,and people are talking about importing chinese indians or whatever.
    The govt will probably accept that,but what about the population ?
     

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