China's expansive territorial claims
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Re: China's Invented History Beijing is rewriting the past to justify its expansive c
History has created all this territorial problems, and if we keep going back to that and do not find a solution based on the present. It would be a total mess.
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First Circumnavigation of the Globe, begun in 1519, was an attempt to prove that the coveted Spice Islands, or Moluccas, were actually property of Spain. Finding a direct route between the Spice Islands and Spanish Peru would be argument enough for ownership of these lands.
Worldmap from a portolan atlas showing the route that Magellan took around the world and the route from Cadiz, Spain, to Peru, 1544.
Therefore, the world belongs to Spain?!
Worldmap from a portolan atlas showing the route that Magellan took around the world and the route from Cadiz, Spain, to Peru, 1544.
Therefore, the world belongs to Spain?!
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Re: China's Invented History Beijing is rewriting the past to justify its expansive c
Historical Champa consisted of up to five principalities:
Indrapura ("City of Indra") was the capital of Champa from about 875 to about 1000 AD. It was located at the site of the modern village of Dong Duong, near the modern city of Da Nang. Also in the region of Da Nang are the ancient Cham city of Singhapura ("City of the Lion"), the location of which has been identified with an archeological site in the modern village of Trà Kiệu, and the valley of Mỹ SÆ¡n,[1] where a number of ruined temples and towers can still be viewed. The associated port was at modern Há»™i An. The territory once controlled by this principality included present-day Quảng Bình, Quảng Trị, and Thừa Thiên–Huế provinces.
Amaravati was located in present-day Quảng Nam province.
Vijaya was located in present-day Bình Äịnh Province. The capital has been identified with the archeological site at Cha Ban. The associated port was at present-day Qui NhÆ¡n. Important excavations have also been conducted at nearby Thap Mam, which may have been a religious and cultural center. Vijaya became the political and cultural center of Champa around 1000 AD, when the northern capital of Indrapura was abandoned due to pressure from the Viet. It remained the center of Champa until 1471, when it as sacked by the Viet and the center of Champa was again displaced toward the South. In its time, the principality of Vijaya controlled much of present-day Quang-Nam, Quang-Ngai, Binh Dinh, and Phu Yen Provinces.
Kauthara was located in the area of modern Nha Trang in Khánh Hòa Province. Its religious and cultural center was the temple of Po Nagar, several towers of which still stand at Nha Trang.
Panduranga was located in the area of present-day Phan Rang in Ninh Thuáºn Province. Panduranga was the last of the Cham territories to be annexed by the Vietnamese.
Within the four principalities there were two main clans: the "Dua" and the "Cau". The Dua lived in Amarvati and Vijaya while the Cau lived in Kauthara and Panduranga. The two clans differed in their customs and habits and conflicting interests led to many clashes and even war. But they usually managed to settle disagreements through intermarriage.
So the Green Part of Vietnam is Indian? Right?
Between the 7th and the 15th centuries, Champa at times included the modern Vietnamese provinces of Quảng Nam, Quảng Ngãi, Bình Äịnh, Phú Yên, Khánh Hòa, Ninh Thuáºn, and Bình Thuáºn. Though Cham territory included the mountainous zones west of the coastal plain and (at times) extended into present-day Laos, for the most part the Cham remained a seafaring people dedicated to trade, and maintained few settlements of any size away from the coast.claim its their territory. you miss few words. what malay/ph/vietnam/taiwan base on? another fairy tale
Historical Champa consisted of up to five principalities:
Indrapura ("City of Indra") was the capital of Champa from about 875 to about 1000 AD. It was located at the site of the modern village of Dong Duong, near the modern city of Da Nang. Also in the region of Da Nang are the ancient Cham city of Singhapura ("City of the Lion"), the location of which has been identified with an archeological site in the modern village of Trà Kiệu, and the valley of Mỹ SÆ¡n,[1] where a number of ruined temples and towers can still be viewed. The associated port was at modern Há»™i An. The territory once controlled by this principality included present-day Quảng Bình, Quảng Trị, and Thừa Thiên–Huế provinces.
Amaravati was located in present-day Quảng Nam province.
Vijaya was located in present-day Bình Äịnh Province. The capital has been identified with the archeological site at Cha Ban. The associated port was at present-day Qui NhÆ¡n. Important excavations have also been conducted at nearby Thap Mam, which may have been a religious and cultural center. Vijaya became the political and cultural center of Champa around 1000 AD, when the northern capital of Indrapura was abandoned due to pressure from the Viet. It remained the center of Champa until 1471, when it as sacked by the Viet and the center of Champa was again displaced toward the South. In its time, the principality of Vijaya controlled much of present-day Quang-Nam, Quang-Ngai, Binh Dinh, and Phu Yen Provinces.
Kauthara was located in the area of modern Nha Trang in Khánh Hòa Province. Its religious and cultural center was the temple of Po Nagar, several towers of which still stand at Nha Trang.
Panduranga was located in the area of present-day Phan Rang in Ninh Thuáºn Province. Panduranga was the last of the Cham territories to be annexed by the Vietnamese.
Within the four principalities there were two main clans: the "Dua" and the "Cau". The Dua lived in Amarvati and Vijaya while the Cau lived in Kauthara and Panduranga. The two clans differed in their customs and habits and conflicting interests led to many clashes and even war. But they usually managed to settle disagreements through intermarriage.
So the Green Part of Vietnam is Indian? Right?
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Re: China's Invented History Beijing is rewriting the past to justify its expansive c
They physically moved and not merely made maps.
South China Sea dispute: The inconvenient truth that Han Chinese sailors are latecomers in history
The conflict between the Philippines and China over the Scarborough Shoal may appear at first sight a minor dispute over an uninhabitable rock and surrounding shallow waters. But it is hugely important because it encapsulates China's assumption that the histories of the non-Han peoples whose lands border two-thirds of the waters known in English as the South China Sea are irrelevant.
The Philippine case over Scarborough has been mostly presented as one of geography. The feature is 135 nautical miles from Luzon, the main Philippine island, and roughly 350 miles from the mainland of China and 300 miles from the tip of Taiwan. It is thus also well within the Philippines' Exclusive Economic Zone.
China leapfrogs these inconvenient geographical truths to come up with justifications of its claims which can be applied to the whole South China Sea and thus justify the dotted line on map which vaguely defines them. This line has never been precisely delineated but comes well within the 200-mile limits of all the other countries, and close to Indonesia's gas-rich Natuna islands.
In the case of the Scarborough Shoal, its historical justification is that this rock and surrounding shallow water is mentioned in a Chinese map of the 13th century when China itself was under alien – Mongol – rule. The fact that a vessel from China had visited the shoal and recorded its existence has thus become one basis for its claim. Very similar pieces of history are trotted out to justify claims to other islands visited by ships from China. Likewise, China's assumption of hegemony is often based on the fact that foreign merchant ships had to pay taxes to trade with China.
History, however, shows that Chinese sailors were latecomers to the South China Sea, let alone to onward trade to the Indian Ocean. The seagoing history of the region, at least for the first millennium of the current era, was dominated by the ancestors of today's Indonesians, Malays, Filipinos and (less directly) Vietnamese. Thus, as China's own records reveal, when the 4th century Buddhist pilgrim Fa Hsien, went to Sri Lanka, he travelled from China to Sumatra and then on to Sri Lanka in Malay ships.
This was not the least surprising given that during this era of sea-going prowess, people from Indonesia were the first colonisers of the world's third largest island, Madagascar, some 4,000 miles away. (The Madagascan language and 50% of its human gene pool are of Malay origin.) This was a thousand years before the much-vaunted voyages of Chinese admiral Zheng He in the 15th century.
Malay seagoing prowess was to be overtaken by south Indians and Arabs, but they remained the premier sea-farers in Southeast Asia until well into the era of European dominance of the region. Indeed, the Malay-speaking Hindu (like much of Southeast Asia at that time) mercantile state of central Vietnam dominated South China Sea trade until the 15th century. The 10th century Arab traveller and geographer al-Masudi made reference to the "Cham Sea", and trade between Champa and Luzon was well established long before the Chinese drew their 13th century map. As Scarborough Shoal not only lies close to the Luzon coast but is on the direct route from Manila bay to the ancient Cham ports of Hoi An and Qui Nhon, it was known to the Malay sailors long ago.
All in all, the Chinese claim to have 'been there first' is like arguing that Europeans got to Australia before its aboriginal inhabitants. But given China's reluctance to acknowledge that Taiwan was Malay territory until the arrival of European conquerors, and then of a surge of settlers from the mainland, such refusal to acknowledge the rights of other peoples is not surprising.
At times, China itself seems to recognise the flimsy basis of some of its historical claims. In the case of the Scarborough Shoal, it backs up its position by reference to the Treaty of Paris 1898 concluding the Spanish-American war and yielding Spanish sovereignty over the Philippine archipelago to the US. This did not mention the shoal but described a series of straight lines drawn on the map which left the shoal a few miles outside the 116E longitude defined by the treaty.
Given that China rejects "unequal treaties" imposed by western colonialists, it is remarkable to find it relying on one between two foreign powers conducted without any reference to the inhabitants of the Philippines. Vietnam can equally well claim all the Spratly Islands as inheritor of French claims over them.
For sure, China has the power to impose its will. But its aggressive stance towards the Philippines, so often seen as an especially weak state, has alerted others, including Japan, Russia and India as well as the US, to its long-term goal which is not ownership of a few rocks but strategic control of the whole sea, a vital waterway between northeast Asia and the Indian Ocean, the Gulf and Europe. The Scarborough Shoal is not just a petty dispute over some rocks. It is a wake-up call for many countries.
South China Sea dispute: The inconvenient truth that Han Chinese sailors are latecomers in history - The medical and societal journal of a vitreo-retinal surgeon. | Eye Dr DeLengocky
History proves their claim.claim its their territory. you miss few words. what malay/ph/vietnam/taiwan base on? another fairy tale
They physically moved and not merely made maps.
South China Sea dispute: The inconvenient truth that Han Chinese sailors are latecomers in history
The conflict between the Philippines and China over the Scarborough Shoal may appear at first sight a minor dispute over an uninhabitable rock and surrounding shallow waters. But it is hugely important because it encapsulates China's assumption that the histories of the non-Han peoples whose lands border two-thirds of the waters known in English as the South China Sea are irrelevant.
The Philippine case over Scarborough has been mostly presented as one of geography. The feature is 135 nautical miles from Luzon, the main Philippine island, and roughly 350 miles from the mainland of China and 300 miles from the tip of Taiwan. It is thus also well within the Philippines' Exclusive Economic Zone.
China leapfrogs these inconvenient geographical truths to come up with justifications of its claims which can be applied to the whole South China Sea and thus justify the dotted line on map which vaguely defines them. This line has never been precisely delineated but comes well within the 200-mile limits of all the other countries, and close to Indonesia's gas-rich Natuna islands.
In the case of the Scarborough Shoal, its historical justification is that this rock and surrounding shallow water is mentioned in a Chinese map of the 13th century when China itself was under alien – Mongol – rule. The fact that a vessel from China had visited the shoal and recorded its existence has thus become one basis for its claim. Very similar pieces of history are trotted out to justify claims to other islands visited by ships from China. Likewise, China's assumption of hegemony is often based on the fact that foreign merchant ships had to pay taxes to trade with China.
History, however, shows that Chinese sailors were latecomers to the South China Sea, let alone to onward trade to the Indian Ocean. The seagoing history of the region, at least for the first millennium of the current era, was dominated by the ancestors of today's Indonesians, Malays, Filipinos and (less directly) Vietnamese. Thus, as China's own records reveal, when the 4th century Buddhist pilgrim Fa Hsien, went to Sri Lanka, he travelled from China to Sumatra and then on to Sri Lanka in Malay ships.
This was not the least surprising given that during this era of sea-going prowess, people from Indonesia were the first colonisers of the world's third largest island, Madagascar, some 4,000 miles away. (The Madagascan language and 50% of its human gene pool are of Malay origin.) This was a thousand years before the much-vaunted voyages of Chinese admiral Zheng He in the 15th century.
Malay seagoing prowess was to be overtaken by south Indians and Arabs, but they remained the premier sea-farers in Southeast Asia until well into the era of European dominance of the region. Indeed, the Malay-speaking Hindu (like much of Southeast Asia at that time) mercantile state of central Vietnam dominated South China Sea trade until the 15th century. The 10th century Arab traveller and geographer al-Masudi made reference to the "Cham Sea", and trade between Champa and Luzon was well established long before the Chinese drew their 13th century map. As Scarborough Shoal not only lies close to the Luzon coast but is on the direct route from Manila bay to the ancient Cham ports of Hoi An and Qui Nhon, it was known to the Malay sailors long ago.
All in all, the Chinese claim to have 'been there first' is like arguing that Europeans got to Australia before its aboriginal inhabitants. But given China's reluctance to acknowledge that Taiwan was Malay territory until the arrival of European conquerors, and then of a surge of settlers from the mainland, such refusal to acknowledge the rights of other peoples is not surprising.
At times, China itself seems to recognise the flimsy basis of some of its historical claims. In the case of the Scarborough Shoal, it backs up its position by reference to the Treaty of Paris 1898 concluding the Spanish-American war and yielding Spanish sovereignty over the Philippine archipelago to the US. This did not mention the shoal but described a series of straight lines drawn on the map which left the shoal a few miles outside the 116E longitude defined by the treaty.
Given that China rejects "unequal treaties" imposed by western colonialists, it is remarkable to find it relying on one between two foreign powers conducted without any reference to the inhabitants of the Philippines. Vietnam can equally well claim all the Spratly Islands as inheritor of French claims over them.
For sure, China has the power to impose its will. But its aggressive stance towards the Philippines, so often seen as an especially weak state, has alerted others, including Japan, Russia and India as well as the US, to its long-term goal which is not ownership of a few rocks but strategic control of the whole sea, a vital waterway between northeast Asia and the Indian Ocean, the Gulf and Europe. The Scarborough Shoal is not just a petty dispute over some rocks. It is a wake-up call for many countries.
South China Sea dispute: The inconvenient truth that Han Chinese sailors are latecomers in history - The medical and societal journal of a vitreo-retinal surgeon. | Eye Dr DeLengocky
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chinease excercise in tibet on march-10
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