China to give Pakistan two more nuclear reactors, India protests

Discussion in 'China' started by Vishwarupa, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. Vishwarupa

    Vishwarupa Senior Member Senior Member

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    China is well on track to firm up the sale of two more nuclear
    reactors to Pakistan, raising serious concern in India which has conveyed its objections at both the political and official levels in China, as well as the Nuclear Suppliers Group in the last few months.

    The deal in question will constitute the first foreign sale of China's indigenous 1,100 MW nuclear reactor series called ACP 1000 which is set to be a major technological advance for Beijing.

    The project, which is to be located off Karachi (KANNUP 2 and 3), is valued at about $9.6 billion. Although there has been talk of this in the past year, concern levels rose in new Delhi after reports that the China National Nuclear Corporation Ltd had signed some initial commercial contracts with Pakistani authorities.

    It is reliably learnt that India raised the matter with China in the last few months at high-level official meetings and even escalated it to a political level, pointing out to the incongruity of this prospective sale with China's own international commitments as a NPT member as well as within the NSG.

    Further, sources said, India has made it known to the Chinese side that any deepening of China's nuclear cooperation with Pakistan has security implications for India given that Islamabad is not committed to separate its civilian programme from the military.

    Before taking it up with Beijing, sources said, New Delhi first red flagged the issue to its NSG interlocutors last year when nascent signs of such a conversation between China and Pakistan first emerged. However, it was only at this year's NSG at Prague on June 13-14 that some of the members are learnt to have raised objections to China proceeding with another project with Pakistan.

    Matters did pick up pace on the Indian side in the following months as New Delhi brought it up in its official-level conversation with the US ahead of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit to Washington and then took it up at back-to-back meetings with China.

    Even as preparations are afoot for the PM's visit to China later this month, expectations from Beijing on this issue remain minimal. The Chinese argument, sources said, continue to hover around the point that all this cooperation falls within the Sino-Pak nuclear cooperation agreement which precedes Chinese accession to the NSG.

    Despite the fact that this position has been fiercely contested within the NSG, the Chinese side successfully went ahead with its commitment on building two more reactors at Chashma. To avoid being caught up in a debate with the NSG, the Chinese side circulated the notification of this sale at the International Atomic Energy Agency, surprising all member states as that has never been the convention.

    The key problem with China's growing nuclear cooperation with Pakistan is that the NSG guidelines make it mandatory for supplier nations to sell nuclear fuel and technology to only those countries which have their entire programme under IAEA safeguards except for five declared nuclear weapons power. The only exception that the NSG has granted is to India under the 2008 nuclear deal.

    The Non-Proliferation Treaty makes it mandatory for all its members, barring the five nuclear weapon states, to ensure their full programme is under IAEA safeguards. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and as a non-NPT country does not follow the norm of full-scope safeguards. But China has always sought to take refuge under the grandfathering clause in the NSG guidelines that provides a window to deals finalised by member states before they became part of the NSG.

    China to give Pakistan two more nuclear reactors, India protests - Indian Express
     
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  3. jmj_overlord

    jmj_overlord Regular Member

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    why no countries are making a fuss as pakis are not following the norms of IAEA and there is threat of the nukes falling into terrorists hands? Iran and NK was imposed with sanctions for even thinking nuclear................
     
  4. angeldude13

    angeldude13 Lestat De Lioncourt Senior Member

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    Well china is one of them P5.
    They can do whatever they want and no one can do nothing about it not even USA,UK,Russia and France.
    China will veto everything against her interest.
     
  5. Free Karma

    Free Karma Senior Member Senior Member

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    China will understand once jihadi groups start to look in their direction. there are sparks of it in certain provinces.

    They are playing with fire.
     
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  6. Vishwajeet

    Vishwajeet New Member

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    There is a saying in our country.....NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU GIVE MILK TO SNAKE, FINALLY HE WILL SPIT OUT POISON ONLY.

    US already experienced this. I am pretty much sure same thing will happen with China too.

    Finger crossed
     
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  7. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    That's a thought what would PRC do if the Pakistani terrorist attacked them. I believe they will attack Pakistan without any hesitation. But will it be proportional and more - if not will it be like the Americans did. Deep down PRC utilise the Pakistani.

    the American approach and PRC approach to Pakistan is different. If This nuclear deal with Pakistan is grandfathered from a earlier one - How many grandsons can it have. Also the risk of nuclear proliferation from Pakistan is known.
     
  8. DEJAVU

    DEJAVU Regular Member

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    Why US giving third world country like India to give nuclear energy power.
    India home to a quarter of the world’s hungry: Global Hunger Index report - The Times of India

    In a striking irony, the number of hungry people in the world was estimated at 842 million in 2011-13 by the Global Hunger Index (GHI) report released on Monday even as world cereal production was estimated at a near record level of 2,489 million metric tons a few days ago. About a quarter of the world's hungry, or 210 million, are in India alone.

    The number of hungry people appears to have declined slightly from the 870 million estimated in 2010-12, but the current GHI report says that this is due to a recalculation of how undernourishment is measured by the UN-linked Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO). Since 2006, the absolute number of undernourished people has remained unchanged but their proportion to total world population is declining because the world population is growing.

    The 2013 GHI is calculated for 120 countries for which data on its three component indicators are available and where measuring hunger is considered most relevant. The three indicators used are: the proportion of people who are undernourished, the proportion of children under five who are underweight, and the mortality (death) rate of children younger than age five. The report has been brought out by the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), and two international charities Welthungerhilfe and Concern Worldwide.

    Where is India in all this? The 2013 GHI says that in India the proportion of undernourished declined from about 21% of the population to 17.5%, the proportion of underweight children declined from 43.5% to about 40% and under-five mortality declined from 7.5% to about 6%. All this put together means that the hunger index for India declined from 24 to 21 between 2003-07 and 2008-12. The proportion of underweight children is an estimate done by IFPRI as the last survey was done in 2004-05.

    In other words, the proportions and the index for India are at best an approximation. Other surveys done more recently have shown trends that indicate that the nutritive value of food consumed per person is dipping. A recent survey of consumer expenditure said that nutritional intake measured in terms of calories declined from 2,153 kilocalories (Kcal) per person per day in 1993-94 to 2,020 in 2009-10 in rural areas and from 2,071 to 1,946 Kcal in urban areas. These shocking results are according to a report of the 66th round of survey done by the National Sample Survey Organisation (NSSO). Even between 2004-05 and 2009-10, the calorie intake per person per day dipped from 2,047 to 2,020 in rural areas and from 2,020 to 1,946 in urban areas.
    Despite these caveats regarding the GHI data, India still continues in the "Alarming" category of countries classified by severity of hunger. That puts it in the category where the hunger index is between 20 and 29.9. Others in this category are Ethiopia, Sudan, Congo, Chad, Niger, and other African countries. These are places ravaged by resource wars and extreme poverty, and they make up the bottom most bunch in the Human Development Index rankings. Meanwhile, an October report on food prospects issued by FAO forecast a record cereal harvest for 2013 powered by a 7% increase in production over 2012. Wheat output is estimated at 705 million metric tons (MMT), a record. Coarse grains output is put at 1,288 MMT, another record. And rice output is estimated at 496 MMT, yet another record. Wheat prices have declined in international markets by 16% over last year, rice prices are down 23% and maize prices by 35%, according to FAO's price monitor in October quoting prices for September 2013. With huge production and declining prices worldwide, why the world's hungry are not getting enough food is a conundrum that policy makers and experts are groping to answer.
     
  9. cw2005

    cw2005 Regular Member

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    Why bother? China's products are considered, by most memebers in this forum, cheap and useless. Such equipment installed in Pakistan would harm Pakistan more than India does and would make a very good and easy target in future conflict. Does it not?
     
  10. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    few days ago i posted the respective rates what french charged us for jaitapur,russians for kudankulam.
    even being not that big on power generated,the cost of construction is relatively higher for pakistan.

    either china is milking pakistan or there is a secret deal other than a civilian reactor
     
  11. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    Because DFIers care about Pakistan's welfare, can't you tell?
     
  12. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    ohh so now you are justifying your move of supplying nuclear reactors to pakistan!remember one thing,it's your country that started this dirty game but it's India which will end this one.i just look forward to the day when we will provide nuclear technologies to Vietnam and S.Korea along with the blue print of our Agni series IRBMs.well we'll definitely pay you back in your own coin!!
     
  13. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    see just like you much you love and care for your immediate neighbor Japan for what they did to your countrymen 70 years back!!:rofl:
     
  14. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    so nowadays Pakis have the audacity to call us a third world country when the reality is that their own country is dirt poor and is surviving all these years on I.M.F. loans and bailout packages!!makes me wonder,are pakis really that stupid or they pretend to be one....
     
  15. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    Not sure if this is applicable but if we look at the instance(s) when countries in Asia (excluding Israel) detonated nuclear device(s) each one was a developing country (india, Pakistan, North Korea, and PRC). Now if we look at them and determine which country become poorer post facto the detonation there are two out of the four. What do these two have in common.

    With reference to India - is a member of the nuclear weapons state and part of the global comity of nations and is playing by the rules. Yes india is a developing country and is developing nuclear weapons state.

    But if india compares it self when it detonated its nuclear device(s) it was more developed compared to when the others detonated their devices at the time of the first detonation. We can look at the precedents of our neighbours.

    With nuclear weapons India did it right and with a lot of nonsense and obstacles against it. The CTBT is what's the joker in the pack we need to overcome not the third world statistics.
     
  16. datguy79

    datguy79 Regular Member

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    Who is footing the $ 9.6 billion bill?
     
  17. BangersAndMash

    BangersAndMash Regular Member

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    Chinese loan???

    Chinese BOO (Build, Own, Operate)???

    How many pakis will steal lecy from the national grid? How many pakis can afford lecy?
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Has protest by India has any effect in the neighbourhood or elsewhere?
     

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