China syndrome: Why China is different from Middle East

Discussion in 'China' started by kickok1975, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Report from Times

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    The man lived near a tiny Maine town called China (pop. 4,100). But that wasn't why, as he drove me through the backwoods of New England, he wanted to talk about the huge country halfway across the globe where I lived. Nearly every day for the past month, he had watched television images of wave after wave of protesters standing up to their autocratic rulers. His question was only natural: When would China — the country, not the town — face its own uprising?

    On the face of it, there are similarities between China and those nations catalyzed by the Jasmine Revolution. While China is not ruled by a dictator entrenched for decades, an authoritarian, one-party regime has long held power. As in the Arab world, the country is struggling with rising food and real estate prices, as well as growing unemployment among college graduates. Corruption gnaws at society. A widening wealth gap means the impoverished feel poorer than they once did.

    But there is a crucial difference — and this is why expectations of a Beijing Spring are premature. In the Middle East and North Africa, even in countries with decent economic growth, governments are seen as the problem. In China, for all the Communist Party's sins and ideological contortions, the regime is regarded by its people as the engineer of the most spectacular economic expansion the world has ever seen. Even as the rest of the globe suffered during the financial crisis, China kept chugging along. Why throw the bums out when the bums keep delivering? Few Chinese, schooled as they are in the perils of revolution, would want to risk Arab-style chaos.

    Now that we are used to the idea of a resurgent China, the gains that the country has made during three decades of economic reform seem almost commonplace. But let's recap: hundreds of millions lifted out of poverty, and an economy that, now the world's second largest, has doubled roughly every eight years. Savvy about its survival, the Communist Party has made sure to equate the country's remarkable gains with its own longevity. China's social contract goes like this: We bring you economic betterment, you don't complain about political stagnation. Despite significant social problems, China brims with hope for an ever better future and pride in an ever stronger role in global affairs. Walk the streets of China's cities and the air is thick not only with pollution but also with ambition.

    Of course, stability is also helped by the fact that Beijing has built one of the world's most comprehensive security apparatuses. (Last year China spent $75 billion on domestic security, according to official figures.) When exile democracy groups issued online calls for a Jasmine Revolution to bloom in China on Feb. 20, Beijing launched a furious pre-emptive strike. Dozens of dissidents were detained or forced to "drink tea" with public security agents who warned them against joining any demonstrations. Chinese Internet censors worked overtime, blocking searches of the Mandarin words for jasmine or Egypt. Long before the Arab street erupted, Facebook and Twitter, the technological midwives to revolution, were banned in China. And just as a reminder that Big Brother is watching, President Hu Jintao said on Feb. 19 that "virtual society," or the Internet, needed to be monitored more closely.

    Some might say that even a month ago few expected the Arab street to burn as it is now burning. This much, then, is true: even if China doesn't explode, its government faces an existential problem. Those high growth rates needed to guarantee a pliant populace and absorb new waves of labor cannot last forever. By its own estimation, China needs growth of 7% to 8% in order to maintain social stability. Already, China suffers from around 80,000 small-scale protests a year, according to government statistics. Imagine what might happen when gravity finally pulls the Chinese economy back into the normal atmosphere.

    In the same Feb. 19 speech in which he called for greater Internet controls, Hu also urged the government to "solve prominent problems that might harm the harmony and stability of society." Many Arab leaders did not think their people would turn against them. After decades of political repression, they had grown overconfident of their enduring power. In contrast, since the Tiananmen protests of 1989, China's leaders have been paranoid about any public discontent mushrooming into antigovernment fervor. The anticipation of unrest expressed by the man from China, Maine, is shared by the Communist Party — but readiness does not ensure perpetual survival.
     
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  3. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    CCP will be toppled eventually if not now then in 100 years...freedom is everlasting although it has its disadvantages if people in power misuse it.
     
  4. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    To hold power long time, CCP will need reform, gradually and steadily to meet the demand of Chinese people. Of course, economy is top priority because the resentment could grow substantially if people couldn't find job, afford their standard of living. It's a very tough job require excellent performance. There is no guarantee of success and riots could happen from time to time.

    If CCP could create a mechanism let people have a place to unleash their anger, It would probably help them better manage the country. For example, a mechanism of resignation of government if it is extremely unpopular, and replace them with new blood, even from same CCP party.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  5. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    I am one supporter of Chinese current political system, that is ,an authoritarian, one-party regime.



    I do believe that only one authoritarian,one party regime can reject the short-sighted politics for vote-stock and turn CHina to one industrialized country in the long-sighted interest of the country,because the majority of people usually play a role of defender for their short-sighted individual interest during the rapidly society transform.

    democracy can not help CHina finish such a society transform,from one agriculture-based society to one industrialized society. the vote-stock politics would would stop CHina's pace.


    However I am not the supporter of CCP. I don't care who is the "one party" of "one authoritarian,one party regime"!
    If some day ,CCP of the " "one authoritarian,one party regime" were to be replaced by someone else,I would never feel sorry for CCP.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  6. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Japan is actually a good model for China to learn. Even Japan is a democratic country, it was ruled by one single party FDP for over half century. Only in last 2 years it was replaced by DP but it is increasingly likely they could regain power again. If CCP wants to rule China for long term, they should create a check and balance at least within the party where good performers rewarded while under-performer should give up their posts to other party members and take the responsibility and blame of angry citizens.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  7. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    obviously your world has only 1 demension, you always assume a country only needs to deal with it's own problems, and forgot there are a lot forces and impacts from other countries. If China is the only country in this world I will 100% agree with you. China never has the same nice environment as what Japan had, but as a Chinese I don't feel sorry about that, I take that as an honor, only country which has potential to be #1 has to suffer in this way.
     
  8. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    What is a better Chinese government has to do with other countries force? Please explain. Do you suggest Chinese government should not improve because of pressure from outside world? Or do you suggest if Chinese government reformed and become less autocratic, the country will become weaker therefore become prey of foreign force?

    If a country can't deal with her problems internally, how could it deal with problem externally? Rome was defeat from within. It’s not a one dimension or three dimension questions, it’s a question of how to maintain their power and legitimacy in a country with 1.3 billion people.

    Like I said, there are ways to do it. CCP can continue evolving together with China’s development or stuck there do nothing. Even former CCP chairman Mr. Jiang zemin said the Party need “progress with time” and “Reform” is always a hot word frequently used by CCP leaders.

    It has nothing to do with outside force. When a Party can really lead Chinese people to further progress and win their hearts, they are unstoppable.
     
  9. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

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    political system is all overrated. pro democratic fever is a remnant of the cold war. what is true democracy and freedom? is it America? they have plenty of groups calling for action against the government. none more amusing then...whats his name...that documentary maker who yells on microphones and claims to be fighting Illuminati. when is the freedom of americans superseded by "national security"? it seems national security can be used to fight every value of these so called free societies these days. you can get arrested, monitored and you can block other companies hindering free enterprise.

    is it Canada? despite democratic rhetoric of freedom of choice and so on and so forth, has Quebec ever become independent despite continuously saying they want it?

    a country should use w/e model works best for them. Singapore is heavily controlled, but it is so successful people dont try that freedom thing with them. its pointless. its easy to demonize another political system when it is failing or having hard times. even in democracies, opposing parties do this to each other all the time.
     
  10. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The two examples you used (US and Canada) are irrelevant to the topics. It’s like compare Apple to Orange. US passed national security act after 9-11, but the citizen still share one of the most freedom in the world. FBI can tap into you phone if they suspect you are a terrorist but they can’t arrest you without proof. For Canada, you must use the wrong example. Canadian government actually allowed Quebec referendum and its citizen themselves there in Quebec narrowly defeat the independence.

    Back to topic, I’m talking about how CCP could become a better party by creating a self renew mechanism, not a regime change. If you are advocating even a dictatorship needed within the party, then please tell me what the merits are.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It is an interesting suggestion that to be No #1 in the world, one has to mortgage one soul, body and mind to a group of individuals, who have organised for themselves the clout, who will decide the individual's and society's good as they deem to be fit.

    Such a thought that prevalent and popular in China is not so surprising and odd, as it may seem.

    Given China's history of poverty and feudalism, where there was a vast economic and social difference between the ruling class and the ruled, the Communist capitalised on the grievances and with dramatic combat victories (one is always afraid of the tough people) galvanised the deprived peasant masses to march to power by defeating the KMT.

    Being a past master of psychology and psyops, Mao Tse Tung, outwardly projected the cosmetic aura that he was 'a part of the peasants and workers' when in actuality he was the son of a rich grain dealer.Technically, by Communist standards the bourgeoisie was taken to be an exploiter of the masses and thus his father was an exploiter of the poor, Notwithstanding, Mao took over mantle of the CCP.

    His complex mind and capacity to justify whatever he did as correct can be ascertained by the way he organised his married and not so married life.

    He married Yang Kaihui, Professor Yang's daughter and a fellow student, despite an existing marriage with Luo Yixiu arranged by his father at home, which Mao never acknowledged. In October 1930, the Kuomintang (KMT) captured Yang Kaihui as well as her son, Anying. The KMT imprisoned them both, and Anying was later sent to his relatives after the KMT killed his mother. At this time, Mao was living with He Zizhen, a co-worker and 17 year old girl from Yongxing, Jiangxi.

    Mao the wise (from the CCP point of view) with slow persuasion and not so slow persuasion, changed the Chinese mindset to accept the dictates of the CCP as the panacea of all problems of the individual,society and the Nation.

    Mao was an excellent operative of psywar, wherein the people believed that the Cultural Revolution was actually to cleanse China of the 'revisionists' and 'capitalist roaders'. The principal targets of Mao's ire were, on the one hand, party and government officials who he felt had become a “new class” divorced from the masses and, on the other, intellectuals who, in his view, were the repository of bourgeois and even feudal values. In actuality, he fomented a total confusion in China so as to eliminate his rivals in the CCP including China's president, Liu Shaoqi.

    It is interesting to note the Chinese posters praise Deng. The market-oriented economic policies that China has followed since Deng Xiaoping came to power in the late 1970s represent a thorough repudiation of everything the Cultural Revolution stood for! And Deng has been purged by Mao and his Cultural Revolution!! This should indicate that the Chinese has no set principles and instead are the mouthpiece of the CCP because once denounced as a 'capitalist roader', the man surfaces as the Hero of Modern China!!!

    This psychology, through disinformation, deceit and even skulduggery, has become ingrained in the Chinese mindset and has become a placebo, wherein the fear of the unknown, mortifies the Chinese mind.

    Therefore, change or a departure from the orderly and regimented life under the CCP becomes an anathema.

    Now, with the money flowing in, due to the pragmatic policy of Deng, encouraged by Chou en Lai, there can be no return from the ecstasy that has gripped the once impoverished tiller of the land or shabby peasants and the labour of the crude industries of Mao's China.
     
  12. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    People always say "Why change it when it's not broken?". It's fine for regular commodities but for a country's system, it might be too late to change when its broken. A proactive leader will recognize it and take the initiative.
     
  13. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

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    most freedom is such a gross overlook of the real issue. yes, american are even free to the point of carrying guns. they also have highest murder and crime rate in the world.

    they can hold you indefinitely without due process. i think you are not aware of the pride of american judicial system. or at least what they claim is so great about it.

    wrong example? you better relook what the Clarity Act of 1999 is if you actually think Canada would allow Quebec to separate.



    ok, you want merits of 1 party control in China? simple. average Chinese is not ready for the freedoms they could get with democracy. in fact, i dont even think they are ready to accept the responsibility of the power they hold as netizens. i, personally, hold ZERO faith in the average citizen. i think they are stupid and easily manipulated. that is why only the capable should be leaders.

    why do you think such disparity always occurs in free markets? because "evil" corporations always cheat and steal? NO, because not all people are equal. some are smart, some are dumb. some are cut out for corporate world, some are better off serving burgers. every single time there is an equal playing field time and time again result is humans are not equal in ability or intelligence.

    and this is why it is not only dangerous, but stupid to give any influence that could tip the power out of the ones of the capable.
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The first error that quite a few Chinese are making is what Democracy is.

    Democracy is no monolith. It has numerous interpretations since democracy of each country differs as per their history, customs, demography, culture et al.

    It is therefore a rather ill informed comparison of US Democracy with any other democracy. As incongruous as chalk and cheese..

    While Hong Kong Chinese may revel that they have a democratic system, in actuality, they don’t.

    The issue is simply - having a govt ‘OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE’

    Is the National People's Congress of China composed through universal suffrage to be truly of body that is ‘OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE’ ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    So, it is assumed that China is free from the 'evils' of free market.

    But then Greed skews any market and Greed is an established factor in China and even agreed here by the Chinese that it is the altar where metaphorically incense sticks are burnt 24 x 7.
     
  16. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Clarity Act

    The Clarity Act (known as Bill C-20 before it became law) is legislation passed by the Parliament of Canada that established the conditions under which the Government of Canada would enter into negotiations that might lead to secession following such a vote by one of the provinces. The Clarity Bill (C-20) was tabled for first reading in the House of Commons on December 13, 1999. It was passed by the House on March 15, 2000, and by the Senate, in its final version, on June 29, 2000.[1]
    The Clarity Act was created in response to the 1995 Quebec referendum and ongoing independence movement in that province. The content of the Clarity Act was based on the 1998 secession reference to the Supreme Court of Canada made by the federal government under Jean Chrétien.
    The Quebec Contingency Act (Bill C-341) was a private member's bill tabled in Canada's federal Parliament in 1996 to establish the conditions which would apply to a referendum regarding the separation of Quebec from Canada. It was a precursor to the Clarity Act of 2000.
    Key points
    The key points of the legislation included the following:
    • Giving the House of Commons the power to decide whether a proposed referendum question was considered clear before the public vote;
    • Specifically stating that any question not solely referring to secession was to be considered unclear;
    • Giving the House of Commons the power to determine whether or not a clear majority has expressed itself in any referendum, implying that some sort of
    supermajority is required for success;
    • Stating that all provinces and the First Nations were to be part of the negotiations;
    • Allowing the House of Commons to override a referendum decision if it felt the referendum violated any of the tenets of the Clarity Act;
    • The secession of a province of Canada would require an amendment to the Constitution of Canada.

    Note this this is way a goverment deal with secession. However, Quebec has its own law to overhaul this act.
     
  17. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

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    no, that example was about how people are not equal which is why only the smart and capable should rule. free market is ideal. because the talented will succeed, the stupid will fail. as it should be in nature.
     
  18. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

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    exactly. you do realize the natives of Canada were probably the ones who swayed the other vote to keep Quebec in Canada right? these are all round about ways of basically saying Quebec cannot separate.

    what law is that?
     
  19. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Back to topic and don’t attempt to deflect. Here we are talking about how the very Party could become better, not one party or Multi Party ruling. Isn’t it considered as dangerous?

    By the way, I disagree your comments that regular people are stupid and don’t know how to make right decision. Given them freedom of information and choice, they will make right decision. Your comments actually just proved in a country where regular citizen is brainwashed by one way propaganda, they could be manipulated and therefore become “Stupid” as per your say.
     
  20. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Quebec mirror law

    Following the adoption of the Clarity Act by the federal government, the Quebec provincial government adopted its own law : An Act respecting the exercise of the fundamental rights and prerogatives of the Québec people and the Québec State, R.S.Q., chapter E-20.2. This provincial act was inspired by the same decision of the Supreme Court of Canada that the federal one was.

    This Quebec act emphasizes the right to self-determination according to the public international law. Under this law, a 50% of the valid votes cast plus one represents a clear expression of Quebecers to their right to determine their own future. It also claims the right to territorial integrity of the province of Quebec. The Act also recognizes the rights of Quebec's English-speaking minority and of the First nations of Quebec. Finally, Article 13 clearly responds to the Canadian federal Clarity Act by stating: "No other parliament or government may reduce the powers, authority, sovereignty or legitimacy of the National Assembly, or impose constraint on the democratic will of the Québec people to determine its own future
     
  21. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

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    you need to be more clear what you think would make the party better than because i thought you were talking about democracy.

    yeah right. which gov. you actually think doesnt use propaganda? all avg citizens are susceptible to brainwashing. and the ones that do are exactly the dumb ones im talking about. americas use of propaganda is legendary.

    watch Century of Self. corporations could even use psychology to create the american consumer through marketing. it is only too amusing.
     

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