China moving full speed ahead in construction of aircraft carriers

Discussion in 'China' started by Rowdy, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    3,256
    Likes Received:
    2,959
    Location:
    Milky Bar
    Adding a second carrier to fleet could give China a way to project power overseas.

    Satellite photos analyzed by IHS Janes show China has dramatically ramped up efforts to construct a second aircraft carrier—the first to be built indigenously there. While the new ship will likely not be a match for US aircraft carriers, it is important for a number of reasons, and representative of China's ambitions to be a naval superpower. The ship is in "advanced state of construction" in a Dailan shipyard, according to analysis of commercial satellite images by IHS Jane's. And China's goal is reportedly to launch the new carrier by this December (in time for Mao Zedong's 122nd birthday), and outfit it by the end of next year.

    China's plans to build new carriers have not exactly been a secret. Construction of the ship started in March, and was confirmed to be a carrier by People's Liberation Army (PLA) officials speaking to Hong Kong Commercial Daily. The new carrier, called the Type 001A, will include technology currently only used aboard US carriers, according to PLA Navy senior officers: an electromagnetic catapult that will allow aircraft to be launched with greater fuel and weapons loads. That would put China into a very exclusive club.

    The Type 001A is likely the first of at least three new carriers that will be built by China. The PLA Navy's existing carrier, the Liaonang—an extensive rebuild of a never-completed former Soviet carrier acquired from Ukraine—took sixteen years to obtain and rebuild. But during that time, China has acquired a wealth of data about how aircraft carriers work—purchasing other derelict carriers (including one from Australia) and technical data from other countries—including data likely stolen from US defense contractors. China's military leaders have said that they believed they could now build a carrier in as little as two years.

    Force projection
    China's leadership doesn't just want carriers so that it can challenge the US naval dominance of the Pacific. It's part of President Xi Jingping's "Chinese dream" to make China the most powerful country in the world in this century, reversing the effects of what Xi once called a "century of humiliation." Xi and a collection of hardliners within the PLA and Communist party want to return China to the dominant position it held before the First Opium War and Britain's forcing of the cession of Hong Kong in 1842. China was forced to capitulate in part because of Britain's naval power.

    In 2011, Lieutenant General Qi Jianguo, then assistant chief of the People's Liberation Army general staff, told a Hong Kong newspaper, told the Hong Kong Commercial Daily, "All of the great nations in the world own aircraft carriers—they are symbols of a great nation." But carriers also happen to be a great way to project national power much further; and catapult-equipped carriers even more so.

    Catapult-operating aircraft carriers have been the center of US expeditionary naval strategy since World War II. The US Navy has more aircraft carriers in its fleet than the rest of the navies of the world combined, providing the US with something few other powers can achieve: a forward-based "air force" nearly anywhere in the world within days. Because of the catapult systems used to launch US carrier-based aircraft, they can fly further and carry more armament than planes launched from the "ski-jump" style carriers used by practically every other Navy other than France's nuclear-powered Charles de Gaulle.(The UK dropped plans for a catapult system aboard the HMS Queen Elizabeth, forcing the Royal Navy to go exclusively with the F-35B "jump jet" variant.)

    The upside of catapult carriers can be counted in the number of bombs they can deliver on targets. In the US Navy's case, while F/A-18 Super Hornets can't carry nearly as much as an Air Force B-52, B-2 or B-1, they make up for that with their ability to stay on station longer because they have less distance to fly, and refuel and rearm within a few hours and return. Strikes by the Air Force often have involved flying planes as far as halfway around the world, refueling in flight multiple times before striking their targets once.

    A very short runway
    Ski-jump carriers, on the other hand, require jets to take off purely under their own power, giving them a slight boost into the sky with the ramp. That means either using "jump jets" like the AV-8B Harrier or the future F-35B, or using aircraft with low enough stall speeds to stay airborne on their afterburners alone on launch. The second route is the one China, India, and Russia have followed with their carrier-based fighters.


    But China has faced a big problem in building fighters capable of flying off a ski-jump: the gas turbine engines China manufactures indigenously lack the acceleration power to achieve the required thrust off the ramp to stay airborne. The J-15 Flying Shark fighter—China's answer to the F/A-18 Super Hornet—uses Russian-built engines to get aloft.


    Even so, a report by one Chinese media outlet called the Flying Shark a "flopping fish" unable to take off with loads over 12 tons—and anything more than two tons of weaponry when fully fueled. As a result, according to the report, a version of China's anti-ship missile modified for the J-15 has reduced range, and "the J-15 will be boxed into less than 120 [kilometers] of attack range" (74 miles)—not exactly "force projection."

    The ski jump is also a problem for heavier support aircraft, such as airborne early warning (AEW) radar planes. They just can't build up enough speed on a short deck, even with a ramp boost, to fly. To really do the sort of carrier air operations China aspires to, catapults are a prerequisite.

    China isn't the only country building new carriers in Asia that need catapults. India, which also has a former Soviet ski-jump carrier, has two new carriers planned: INS Vikrant, which is already being built, and the future INS Vishal. And over the summer, India began a collaboration with the US, gaining access to the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EALS), a catapult system used aboard the US Navy's Gerald R. Ford class carriers.

    However, China may also have gained access to EALS technology in its own ways-including computer espionage. Satellite photos published in March showed a catapult test facility in China. Days later, PLA Navy Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, cited as an expert in “naval propulsion and electrical engineering by Hong Kong Commercial Daily, confirmed the project and told the paper that a homegrown electromagnetic catapult system would be ready for the new planned carriers. Ma said that China's electromagnetic catapult was more advanced than the US technology, and had performed smoothly in tests. He was confident that the system was ready for real-world use.

    There are other technological issues facing China's carrier ambitions. The Liaoning is, despite being nearly fully rebuilt, fairly low-tech in terms of its engineering plant. It is powered by oil-fired steam boilers, one of which burst during initial sea trials forcing an evacuation of an engine room. Analysts believe China lacks the experience with nuclear propulsion systems to build a nuclear-powered carrier, though they could conceivably use a large number of low-power reactors designed for submarines. That's the route the US took when building its first nuclear carrier, the USS Enterprise, in the late 1950s with 8 reactors.

    Even with new carriers, it will take some time for the PLA Navy to gain enough experience with flying carrier aircraft to actually use them for anything other than training. Until November of 2012, the only carrier that PLA pilots had flown from was a concrete replica built atop a building. There's the matter of logistical support and fleet operations with carriers as well—the PLA Navy is just beginning to perform fleet operations, such as the ships that travelled to Alaska's coast last month, and coordinating defense of a carrier group is significantly complex. But it's clear that China plans on rapidly surpassing its near neighbors' abilities soon, if only to be used as a persuasive tool as the country exerts its political muscle.
    http://arstechnica.com/information-...d-ahead-in-construction-of-aircraft-carriers/
    @Mad Indian @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @pmaitra @DingDong @blueblood etc
     
    blueblood, brational, pmaitra and 2 others like this.
  2.  
  3. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    12,830
    Likes Received:
    7,522
    Location:
    Podigai Hills.
    And we have people debating why AC are a waste of money :lol:
     
    Sameet2 and Abhijat like this.
  4. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Location:
    New Delhi
    China has taken the first baby steps towards fielding Carriers. Their pilots have hardly any experience and they have hardly any experience of fielding the carriers on the sea.

    On the other hand Indian Navy successfully brought back INS Vikramaditya back to India with a full escort of ships including a resupply ship, which enabled the flotilla to travel without stopping en route.

    Even the Russian CBG has the worlds largest tug accompanying them as their AC keeps on breaking down mid way.
     
    OneGrimPilgrim likes this.
  5. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    They started in March and are going to launch it in December? That means 9 months. Beyond that, of course, there will be a few months for fitting and then trials. In any case, this is quick. I think India has a thing or two to learn.

    Moreover, the magnetic catapult is a thing to look out for.
     
    Illusive likes this.
  6. sabari

    sabari Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    81
    We still have time .we never need large navy to dominate world we Indian ocean if we control Indian ocean we control oil shipment .oil and gas will control world at least for next 3 to 4 decade .our location is a big advantage for us and big did advantage for China they cant control India ocean region with out controlling Andaman necobar
     
  7. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    645
    Magnetic catapult is more of a right royal mess.
     
  8. sabari

    sabari Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    81
    Sir what do you think about solid propellent use in lakshya .solid propellent can be left in water once the jet take off if is the easy way to launch jet than any other systems. though the jet independent from carrier for launchings
     
  9. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,678
    Likes Received:
    6,655
    As if Chinese are the most rational people on earth!
     
  10. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,418
    I thought the debate was about selecting between conventional and nuclear carrier, not if should we have a carrier at all.
     
  11. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    645
    Something like that has been tried and it works.

    My guess is people are just waiting for somebody to gather enough courage to do it first.

    See with 94% of the defence budget being hogged by the armed forces with only 6% left for R&D, we are really in no position to do it, even if it can be done. No Indian researcher will risk his neck, for the thankless leadership we have at some places. Its not just the question of budgets and careers. There are real people with real ideas involved. No point losing a fruitful life's work merely to become a Shaheed Ghazi for the thankless.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2015
  12. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    12,830
    Likes Received:
    7,522
    Location:
    Podigai Hills.
    Compared to Indians, they definitely are in almost every aspect.
     
    Rowdy and Sakal Gharelu Ustad like this.
  13. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    3,256
    Likes Received:
    2,959
    Location:
    Milky Bar
    I love how they deal with RoP and RoL
     
    Mad Indian likes this.
  14. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    12,830
    Likes Received:
    7,522
    Location:
    Podigai Hills.
    I don't know about RoL. Heard that the RoL has a strong backing from govt there. But they definitely know how to deal with RoP.
     
  15. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    3,256
    Likes Received:
    2,959
    Location:
    Milky Bar
    lol They made their own church "Peoples patriotic Church" and only that is allowed to preach the Bible... no vatican etc. :pound::pound:
     
    OneGrimPilgrim likes this.
  16. sabari

    sabari Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    81
    OK sir.....'...'...........................'..................
     
  17. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,678
    Likes Received:
    6,655
    RoL is making huge inroads there. Well, they even change their names to sound American.
     
  18. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,172
    Likes Received:
    422
    No, my friend, it will be Americans, not Chinese, coming to stop you.
    Actually, the real problem for you is: American thinks Indian ocean is currently under their control.
     
  19. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,536
    Likes Received:
    6,539
    USA has over a dozen bases around South China sea . To project power China will have to make it out of there first.
     
  20. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,848
    Likes Received:
    454
    Location:
    India
    There was news the PRC Air Craft carrier was in and part of Syria recent Russian bombings ...

    PRC wanting to show to Russia that they want to help but can only help in a big way if they are given better equipment and stuff. The range of the jets and bombs come into play also. It wont be lost on Russian that the Air Craft Carrier was supposed to be a casino and the jet were supposed to be their own and how and why PRC is trying to show what they are doing.
     
  21. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    3,256
    Likes Received:
    2,959
    Location:
    Milky Bar
    It still is...... they are gambling with the lives of the sailors and the success of the mission objectives. :rofl:
     
    blueblood likes this.

Share This Page