China has 75 submarines

Discussion in 'China' started by Martian, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    China has 75 submarines.

    The chart includes the fourth Type 094 Jin-class SSBN[1] and the three new Type 093G SSNs.[2]
    Also, China had built one more Yuan SSK with AIP.[3]


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    References.

    1. Source (IHS Jane's): US upgrades assessment of China's Type 094 SSBN fleet - IHS Jane's 360
    "Meanwhile, an ONI report issued on 9 April stated that China has four Type 094s in service."

    2. Source (Defense Industry Daily): New Hypersonic Vehicle Build X51 | Cyber RFP Redo | Canada Installs Oversight System >$100 Million Contracts
    "[T]he PLAN also recently commissioning three new Type-093G nuclear-powered attack subs."

    3. Source (The Diplomat): Why China’s Submarine Force Still Lags Behind | The Diplomat
    "The bulk of China’s conventional sub armada consists of...13 Yuan-class (Type 039A) air independent-powered (AIP) attack submarines with an additional 20 Yuan-class vessels planned for production."
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    Supplementary pictorial citation.

    Huludao Shipyard has completed the construction of three Type- 093 submarine | Errymath

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    China's "Huludao Shipyard has completed the construction of three Type 093G nuclear-powered attack submarines" with a Vertical Launch System (VLS).
     
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  3. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Another ONI report for your pleasure.

    [​IMG]

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  4. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    The graphs are inaccurate for two reasons.

    Firstly, China's Type 093 Shang-class SSN had not entered service when the graph was released. Obviously, the graph is propaganda.

    Secondly, China's submarines are obviously superior to Russian submarines for two important reasons. China uses the world's fastest supercomputers (e.g. Tianhe-1 and Tianhe-2) to design its submarines. Russia has never built fast supercomputers. Also, China builds and uses advanced five-axis CNC machine tools to build its military weapons (which includes submarines). The build quality can be seen on the Chengdu J-20 stealth fighter. When closed, the Chengdu J-20 weapon bay doors cannot be seen. China uses 3-micron or better machine tools. Russia does not manufacture its own CNC machine tools.

    In conclusion, Chinese submarines are superior to Russian submarines due to China's access to the world's best supercomputers and CNC machine tools. The graphs are fakes. The real acoustic emissions are classified.
     
  5. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    How does that work? ONI report you are citing is good but ONI report I am citing is propaganda.:clap2::clap2::clap2:

    China also has faster supercomputer than US, UK, France, Germany, Japan which proves China is making superior military systems than all of the above.

    snake-oil-salesman.jpg
     
  6. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    In many military areas, China is superior to the United States.

    For example, China has been successful in two out of two GBI intercepts (or 100%).

    During the past five years, the US has only been successful in 1 out of 4 intercepts (or 25%).
    ----------
    When it comes to anti-satellite weaponry, China destroyed a 4-foot cube target.

    The United States has only proven it can shoot down a 30-foot bus-size target.

    In anti-satellite weaponry, China is a sniper and the US is shooting at the side of a barn. It's not the same thing. China is more sophisticated technologically.

    ONI can be used to cite reported facts (e.g. China has built four Type 094 SSBNs). ONI cannot be used to cite a clearly false chart (when it was released prior to the Type 093 SSN entering service). Also, ONI cannot be cited when it is clearly ridiculous. Chinese supercomputers and five-axis CNC machine tools are building incredibly modern and reliable weapons. To assert that modern Chinese submarines are inferior to 30-year-old Russian submarines (which were designed without supercomputers and built without five-axis CNC machine tools) is simply stupid beyond belief.

    In conclusion, ONI is only allowed to make claims that are plausible. When it makes ridiculous claims, ONI should be ignored.
     
  7. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    Song surfacing within torpedo-range of US aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk is proof of Chinese quality

    Anyone can make a propaganda acoustic chart. The real proof is demonstrating a Chinese submarine's quietness and surfacing within torpedo-range of a US aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk battle group.

    Source (The Washington Times): http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/nov/13/20061113-121539-3317r/?page=all

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    PROOF THAT THE ONI CHART IS BALONEY.
     
  8. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    How about a source for that and no, Richard Fisher don't count?

    Shocking that US chose to down its malfunctioning 30 foot satellite. China strong.

    Your delusions are amusing.

    In conclusion, you can peddle your bullshit however you want. As I stated and you conveniently avoided is that Chinese submarines are superior to every other nation because of Chinese supercomputers.

    So, Astute class or Yasen class ain't got nothing on Chinese SSNs.

    But, ONI defending their good friends Russians is hardly a surprise.

    ALL I HEAR IS BULLSHIT WITHOUT SOURCES OR LINKS.

    During the Cold War, the U.S. Navy would arrange its own submarines in lines where each boat was 25 miles from the next, forming a sort of net to catch Soviet subs. With the introduction of the latest generation of quiet Russian diesel subs in the 1990s, the Americans thought that convergence-zone detection was no longer possible. But the Navy’s just discovered that China’s homemade subs are even louder than 20-year-old Russian boats. “Apparently they [U.S. subs] are making first convergence zone detections and holding them,” the analyst reports.

    http://www.wired.com/2011/12/china-submarines/
     
  9. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Excellent, my Western sources above should not give you indigestion then.
     
  10. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    Well,USA is still militarily much more advanced than china.but such leading edge can not bee sustainable,while USA real economy is smaller than china. In a word,china simplly can narrowen the gap by investing more.
     
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  11. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    You are talking about nearly 70 years of time, money and human resources blown into by far the largest MIC world has ever seen especially since the end of cold war. China has long way to catch up but it will eventually.
     
  12. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    Speed of Supercomputers plays little role in the submarines quality... :lol:
    Yes this is a valid point.
     
  13. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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  14. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    blueblood likes this.
  15. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    Supercomputers are also important in signal processing of acoustic signal returns.

    The speed of supercomputers is extremely important. A more powerful tool enables a superior submarine design and extraction of an accurate signal of an enemy submarine.

    https://www.osc.edu/research/report/data_target
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    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
  16. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Because there is no tender system in China
     
  17. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    Supercomputers are used onboard submarines for both passive and active sonar signal processing.

    The faster the supercomputer, the faster the analysis. Furthermore, a faster supercomputer allows analysis with a finer resolution to increase accuracy. A more powerful supercomputer also permits real-time multi-spectrum analysis.

    http://nreip.asee.org/labs/naval_undersea_warfare_center_newport
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

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    Yes that is right. But why cannot the Chinese engineers be doing that ahead of the American ones?

    Have you tried to read about the pace of construction of submarines and the quality coming from the Chinese harbours. Or have you allowed yourself to believe the incessant US propaganda to belittle Chinese efforts.

    You forget the American propaganda machine has said some of the same things about Indian Nuke facilities. Probably there is a similarity in the methods.
     
  19. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    Have there been any accidents and issues with PRC nuke subs ...

    Impressed with the dedication of PRC navy to build the submarine arm of its navy
     
  20. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    SUBMARINE NUCLEAR LEAK

    A leak of radioactive material was detected at a submarine base near the Chinese port city of Dalian in northern China, the U.S.-based Chinese website Boxun reported over the weekend.

    The accident reportedly occurred Friday, according to Boxun, when one of the two Jin-class ballistic missile submarines at the Xiaopingdao naval base near Dalian was being outfitted with electronic equipment.

    The news portal reported that the information came from adirect and exclusive source” familiar with the mishap. Questioned by Inside China, a Boxun editor stated that the source for the report was from inside the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) who was “reliable.” Pentagon spokesmen have not commented on the reported accident.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/3/inside-china-945032103/?page=all#pagebreak

    Report couldn't be confirmed so take it however you want it to be.

    ..................................................................................................................

    The submarine hull number No. 361 with name Great Wall # 61 (长城61号) is a Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy Type-035AIP (ES5E variant) (NATO reporting name Ming III) conventional diesel/electric submarine. It was reported to have suffered an accident killing all on board in 2003 while at the Bo Hai Sea between North Korea and eastern Shandong Province of China.

    No. 361 was part of the 12th Brigade of the North Sea (Bo Hei) Fleet of the PLAN based at Lu Shun (formerly Port Arthur) in the Liao Ning Province.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_submarine_361

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2003-07/02/content_936853.htm
     

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