China deploys new CCS-5 missiles on borders with India

Discussion in 'China' started by hungo, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. hungo

    hungo Regular Member

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    China has moved new advanced longer range CSS-5 missiles close to the borders with India and developed contingency plans to shift airborne forces at short notice to the region, according to Pentagon.

    Despite increased political and economic relationship between India and China, the Pentagon in a report to the US Congress said, tensions remain along the Sino-India borders with rising instances of border violation and aggressive border patrolling by Chinese soldiers.

    However, a senior Defense Department official told reporters that the US has not observed any anomalous increase in military capabilities along the Sino-India border.

    Noting that China continues to maintain its position on what its territorial claim is, the official said, the two

    capitals - Beijing and New Delhi - have been able to manage this dispute, in a way, using confidence-building measures and diplomatic mechanisms to be able to maintain relative stability in that border area.

    "But it's something that China continues to watch; but I wouldn't say that there's anything in this report that demonstrates a spike or an anomalous increase in military capabilities along the border.

    "It's something that China's paying very careful attention to. It's obviously something that India is paying careful attention to as well," the Senior Defense Department official said.

    In its annual report, the US Defence department said, to improve regional deterrence, the PLA has replaced older liquid-fueled, nuclear capable CCS-3 intermediate range missiles with more advanced and survivable fueled CSS-5 MRBMs.

    "China is currently engaged in massive road and rail infrastructure development along the Sino-India border primarily to facilitate economic development in western China: improved roads also support PLA operations," the Pentagon said.

    The report presented to the Congress said despite increased political and economic relations over the years between China and India, tensions remain along their shared 4,057 km border, most notably over Arunachal Pradesh, which China asserts as part of Tibet and therefore of China, and over the Aksai Chin region at the western end of the Tibetan Plateau.

    "Both countries, in 2009, stepped up efforts to assert their claims. China tried to block a USD 2.9 billion loan to India from the Asian Development Bank, claiming part of the loan would have been used for water projects in Arunachal Pradesh. This represented the first time China sought to influence this dispute through a multilateral institution," the Pentagon said.

    The report said: "The then governor of Arunachal Pradesh announced that India would deploy more troops and fighter jets to the area. An Indian academic also noted that, in 2008, the Indian Army had recorded 270 border violations and nearly 2,300 cases of 'aggressive border patrolling' by Chinese soldiers".

    China refers to its intervention in the Korean War (1950-1953) as the "War to Resist the United States and Aid Korea." Similarly, authoritative texts refer to border conflicts against India (1962), the Soviet Union (1969), and Vietnam (1979) as "Self-Defense Counter Attacks," the Pentagon report said.

    The Pentagon said Beijing remains concerned with persistent disputes along China's shared border with India and the strategic ramifications of India's rising economic, political, and military power.
    http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20100817/1248/twl-china-deploys-new-ccs-5-missiles-on.html
     
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  3. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    More peaceful rising by China. This is not new China has IRBM's pointed at all the major cities from Tibet for the last 3 decades.


    http://frontierindia.net/indian-agni-missiles-deployed-in-tunnels-on-chinese-border


    Indian Agni missiles deployed in tunnels on Chinese border

    India has built atleast 2 tunnels in mountains for storage of Agni Intermediate Range Ballastic Missile (IRBM). It was revealed by Mr. Bharat Karnad, who released his book “India’s Nuclear Policy” in Mumbai yesterday. He said that India is building more such facilities. Such tunnels will help India’s second strike capability, as; the Chinese Thermo Nuclear weapons cannot vaporize mountains.

    Mr. Karnad explaind that it has been done to offset the deployments of Chinese IRBM”s in Chinese occupied Tibet. Mr. Karnad also outlined some scenarios when India and China might actually fight a war and the nuclear weapons might be used. One of the foremost reasons could be the Chinese plans to build a dam and divert water from Yarlung Zangbo (Brahmaputra) to the Yellow river. He said that China has already proceeded by the civil works. In a second scenario, he said, the new generation Tibetians who are very motivated, would launch an armed struggle against Chinese Imperialist. Another important fact he said was that India and China are already engaged in a battle to secure natural resources, even as far as Ecuador.

    Bharat Karnad said that the weakest point of the Nuclear Chain of command was the will of the government to launch retaliatory strike. He said this was told to him by a retired Indian Army General. While Bharat karnad was unsure of current governments will, he and other speakers were unanimous that eventually the decision will come.

    I have difference of opinion with some of the points made by Mr. Karnad. He mentions that the MiG-23 was purchased by IAF when they were given choice of purchasing TU-22M. MiG-23 was purchased was a knee jerk reaction to purchase of F-16’s by Pakistan Air Force. But the general observation of the lack of foresight by the Indian Air Force to build up capabilities against Chinese is agreeable. He also mentioned that India had put the ICBM development in back burner because of lack of resources. My point of view is different. I assume that India is actually building ICBM capabilities in the DRDO’s Advanced Systems laboratory (ASL). ASL does not seem to have a publicly defined mandate. Mr. Karnad says that India is leasing Akulas and it will improve the second strike capability. I just wonder which Indian missile can be fired from it. Mr. Karnad also revealed that India is negotiating for purchase of TU-160 Black Jacks from Russia. He could be right; Russian Air Force did display Tu-160s with their capability to get their job done over Indian Ocean during Indo-Russian Naval Exercises (INDRA).

    I would also like to add some vital comments by some good speakers present at the book launch. Dr. P.K. Iyengar, former Chairman, Atomic Energy Commission made a point that, the Indian nuclear program was about weaponisation right from the start. He observed that, Nasser, Nehru and Tito, the three founders of Non- Alignment Movement (NAM) had agreed that if NAM has to be heard, it needs nuclear weapons. While Apsara reactor was established to get hands on Graphite machining and Cirrus was for extracting Plutonium. Dr. Iyengar was not at his verbal best on his opposition to India-US civil nuclear deal. Dr. Iyengar also recounted an incident that where he had asked the Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi for nuclear test. But Rajiv Gandhi responded by saying that he is putting a note to UN general assembly for disarmament.

    Vice Admiral Madanjit Singh (Retd.) outlined the structure of the Indian nuclear command. He said that there was a National Commission (or Committee, I didn’t get that right). Then Executive Committee. These both are manned by civilians. Then the decision goes to another civil (DRDO and AEC) and military group who would translate the decisions into reality. Vice Admiral Madanjit also outlined the prospects of the Indian Nuclear submarine (ATV) building costs, costs of operation that includes the decision where would the ATV be berthed after it comes back from sea.

    Ambassador Prakash Shah, IFS (Retd.) revealed that India signed Chemical Weapons ban (CWC) with the pre-condition that infamous Australia Group will be dissolved in future.

    Dr. A.N. Prasad, former Director, BARC turned out to be the terrific speaker. He managed to come out with some pointed inferences, while I was wondering what he would speak since everybody else has spoken everything. He said that Thorium is the third stage but what about natural Uranium right now? He said that Dr. Homi Jehangir Bhabha had the vision to start extracting uranium right in 1960 with the uranium in Indian ore of just .07% (700 grams per ton). Those days, the world was operating 2-3% uranium content mines. Then he said that India lost focus and is now realizing the mistake of not continuing to build up on new mines and processing facility. He said that if the Indians would have concentrated on various ways of extracting uranium, we could have found alternative source like the Japanese have found a method of extracting uranium from sea water. One major point he brought out was that when the decision to build the nuclear submarine in 1970’s, the choice of the fuel was enriched uranium and not plutonium. India did not posses the facilities to enrich uranium but subsequently built it up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  4. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    China deploys new CSS-5 missiles on border with India

    China has moved new advanced longer range CSS-5 missiles close to the borders with India and developed contingency plans to shift airborne forces at short notice to the region, according to Pentagon.

    Despite increased political and economic relationship between India and China, the Pentagon in a report to the US Congress said, tensions remain along the Sino-India borders with rising instances of border violation and aggressive border patrolling by Chinese soldiers.

    However, a senior Defense Departmentofficial told reporters that the US has not observed any anomalous increase in military capabilities along the Sino-India border.

    Noting that China continues to maintain its position on what its territorial claim is, the official said, the two capitals – Beijing and New Delhi – have been able to manage this dispute, in a way, using confidence-building measures and diplomatic mechanisms to be able to maintain relative stability in that border area.

    “But it’s something that China continues to watch; but I wouldn’t say that there’s anything in this report that demonstrates a spike or an anomalous increase in military capabilities along the border.

    “It’s something that China’s paying very careful attention to. It’s obviously something that India is paying careful attention to as well,” the Senior Defense Department official said.

    In its annual report, the US Defence department said, to improve regional deterrence, the PLA has replaced older liquid-fueled, nuclear capable CCS-3 intermediate range missiles with more advanced and survivable fueled CSS-5 MRBMs.

    “China is currently engaged in massive road and rail infrastructure development along the Sino-India border primarily to facilitate economic development in western China: improved roads also support PLA operations,” the Pentagon said.

    The report presented to the Congress said despite increased political and economic relations over the years between China and India, tensions remain along their shared 4,057 km border, most notably over Arunachal Pradesh, which China asserts as part of Tibet and therefore of China, and over the Aksai Chin region at the western end of the Tibetan Plateau.

    “Both countries, in 2009, stepped up efforts to assert their claims. China tried to block a USD 2.9 billion loan to India from the Asian Development Bank, claiming part of the loan would have been used for water projects in Arunachal Pradesh. This represented the first time China sought to influence this dispute through a multilateral institution,” the Pentagon said.

    http://idrw.org/?p=442
     
  5. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    When the missile itself has a range of 3000km, it really does not matter where it deploys. This missile could be deployed in Beijing, it still would have enough leg to reach much of india.

    I don't see any reason to get overtly concerned with this news. The current fact is that China has no ballistic missiles deployed in the tibetan autonomous region.
     
  6. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    highlighted part are you sure of it because placements of missiles is not to be given out to media and more so its china
     
  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    We have heard many intel reports leaked in the west stating china has based ballistic missiles in Tibet.
     
  8. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    China has installed missiles in Tibet long back. It nothing new. Even US knows it. But the question is why did the Pentagon have to reveal it?? Whats their objective or motive ???
     
  9. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    don't you think the right question will be what will we do how will we counter

    but we are doing same as a rabbit close his eyes and think nobody is looking at him no danger
     
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    USA is probably trying to sell us Patriot or THAAD,no other reason to reveal this.Chinese have nukes since the 1960's and ICBM's since the 1970's,no urgency from Indian Govt knowing these facts for decades so why the urgency now?So a profit could be made?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  11. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    You have to view this as part of their larger deterrence strategy. As also in light of the negotiations on Arunachal Pradesh. If they're replacing the older DF-3 IRBM's with these new DF-21's, it's a sign of an enhanced threat perception. It'd be useful to know which one of their seven brigades have been tasked to handle the border. There were also reports that some DF-21s/CSS-5 Mod II MRBM's were re-fitted with conventional warheads, so it might be a conventional option for quick infrastructure neutralization during a war, given heightened building activity along the border and the disparity in their air force in that region. Also, if it's the DF-21 C, we have plenty of reason for concern. The new GPS-guidance system has reduced the missiles CEP to 30~40m, enabling it to cause tremendous destruction.

    Meanwhile, what're we doing about our road-mobile deterrence in Aksai Chin? We should deploy the Agni-3 in Himachal Pradesh, giving it the ability to target Xinjiang.
     
  12. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://frontierindia.net/indian-agni-missiles-deployed-in-tunnels-on-chinese-border

    Indian Agni missiles deployed in tunnels on Chinese border

    India has built atleast 2 tunnels in mountains for storage of Agni Intermediate Range Ballastic Missile (IRBM). It was revealed by Mr. Bharat Karnad, who released his book “India’s Nuclear Policy” in Mumbai yesterday. He said that India is building more such facilities. Such tunnels will help India’s second strike capability, as; the Chinese Thermo Nuclear weapons cannot vaporize mountains.

    Mr. Karnad explaind that it has been done to offset the deployments of Chinese IRBM”s in Chinese occupied Tibet. Mr. Karnad also outlined some scenarios when India and China might actually fight a war and the nuclear weapons might be used. One of the foremost reasons could be the Chinese plans to build a dam and divert water from Yarlung Zangbo (Brahmaputra) to the Yellow river. He said that China has already proceeded by the civil works. In a second scenario, he said, the new generation Tibetians who are very motivated, would launch an armed struggle against Chinese Imperialist. Another important fact he said was that India and China are already engaged in a battle to secure natural resources, even as far as Ecuador.

    Bharat Karnad said that the weakest point of the Nuclear Chain of command was the will of the government to launch retaliatory strike. He said this was told to him by a retired Indian Army General. While Bharat karnad was unsure of current governments will, he and other speakers were unanimous that eventually the decision will come.

    I have difference of opinion with some of the points made by Mr. Karnad. He mentions that the MiG-23 was purchased by IAF when they were given choice of purchasing TU-22M. MiG-23 was purchased was a knee jerk reaction to purchase of F-16’s by Pakistan Air Force. But the general observation of the lack of foresight by the Indian Air Force to build up capabilities against Chinese is agreeable. He also mentioned that India had put the ICBM development in back burner because of lack of resources. My point of view is different. I assume that India is actually building ICBM capabilities in the DRDO’s Advanced Systems laboratory (ASL). ASL does not seem to have a publicly defined mandate. Mr. Karnad says that India is leasing Akulas and it will improve the second strike capability. I just wonder which Indian missile can be fired from it. Mr. Karnad also revealed that India is negotiating for purchase of TU-160 Black Jacks from Russia. He could be right; Russian Air Force did display Tu-160s with their capability to get their job done over Indian Ocean during Indo-Russian Naval Exercises (INDRA).

    I would also like to add some vital comments by some good speakers present at the book launch. Dr. P.K. Iyengar, former Chairman, Atomic Energy Commission made a point that, the Indian nuclear program was about weaponisation right from the start. He observed that, Nasser, Nehru and Tito, the three founders of Non- Alignment Movement (NAM) had agreed that if NAM has to be heard, it needs nuclear weapons. While Apsara reactor was established to get hands on Graphite machining and Cirrus was for extracting Plutonium. Dr. Iyengar was not at his verbal best on his opposition to India-US civil nuclear deal. Dr. Iyengar also recounted an incident that where he had asked the Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi for nuclear test. But Rajiv Gandhi responded by saying that he is putting a note to UN general assembly for disarmament.

    Vice Admiral Madanjit Singh (Retd.) outlined the structure of the Indian nuclear command. He said that there was a National Commission (or Committee, I didn’t get that right). Then Executive Committee. These both are manned by civilians. Then the decision goes to another civil (DRDO and AEC) and military group who would translate the decisions into reality. Vice Admiral Madanjit also outlined the prospects of the Indian Nuclear submarine (ATV) building costs, costs of operation that includes the decision where would the ATV be berthed after it comes back from sea.

    Ambassador Prakash Shah, IFS (Retd.) revealed that India signed Chemical Weapons ban (CWC) with the pre-condition that infamous Australia Group will be dissolved in future.

    Dr. A.N. Prasad, former Director, BARC turned out to be the terrific speaker. He managed to come out with some pointed inferences, while I was wondering what he would speak since everybody else has spoken everything. He said that Thorium is the third stage but what about natural Uranium right now? He said that Dr. Homi Jehangir Bhabha had the vision to start extracting uranium right in 1960 with the uranium in Indian ore of just .07% (700 grams per ton). Those days, the world was operating 2-3% uranium content mines. Then he said that India lost focus and is now realizing the mistake of not continuing to build up on new mines and processing facility. He said that if the Indians would have concentrated on various ways of extracting uranium, we could have found alternative source like the Japanese have found a method of extracting uranium from sea water. One major point he brought out was that when the decision to build the nuclear submarine in 1970’s, the choice of the fuel was enriched uranium and not plutonium. India did not posses the facilities to enrich uranium but subsequently built it up.
     
  13. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    you know condition are going very bad for India if we think USA will fight for us then we are in dream neither Russia will help us against china

    its time when we have to do all the thing as we can do

    china will attack in that manner that we will don't have any reaction time they are doing there thing silently and we are just sitting

    we must have to select artillery for our army and mmrca should be fast as soon as possible lca should be induct in IAF

    we have to do if we want to save our pride
     
  14. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Evidently, our politicians are not such fools as you make them out to be.

    Besides, we're not 'doing nothing'. Border roads work and infrastructure has received a tremendous boost in recent times:

    India shoring up presence along border with China
     
  15. Logan

    Logan Regular Member

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    What is the current status of Agni-5,, when would it be deployed with Army??? also China is known to possess ICBM 'Don-Feng' which has greater range than Agni-5.We still have a lot of catching up to do it seems.
     
  16. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    China has DF-31A which is a 3 head MIRV, for China we don't need a ICBM in the traditional sense. Reducing the payload of AGNI 25% will cover all of China.
     
  17. Logan

    Logan Regular Member

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    Relieved to hear that,,really!!Also AGNI-5 i think is transportable i think that means we should be able to hit the northernmost tip of China,,,just hope to see it's induction in the military soon.
     
  18. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    The west views the whole region that encompasses the tibeten autonomous region, the qinghai province, the western part of szechuan province, and the north western corner of yunnan province, as tibet. But by chinese defintion tibet refers to the tibeten autonomous region only. And by this China stands correct that no ballistic missiles are currently deployed in tibet.

    There are missiles deployed in Qinghai though, but we are talking about an area that is about 1000km farther away from the india-china border.
     
  19. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Chinese military presence in the tibeten autonomous region, the 1.2 million square kilo meter area bordering india, is quite pedestrian by any standards. No heavy armour, no combat aircrafts, no offiensive missile units, only 2 or 3 mountain infantry brigades and some very lightly armed PAP units totaling no more than 100000 men, that's about all there is. This stands in sterk contrast with india which has about 300000 troops, armed to the teeth (Bofors gun, Su30MKI, Mig27, T-72, etc), deployed in the border region.

    Don't understand where all this paranoia about an imminent chinese invasion comes from? If anything its we chinese who should be worried.
     
  20. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I didnt know mountainous region allowed for tanks and heavy arty.
     
  21. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    we took few steps for our safety but as compare to china they are nothing we know how china is playing its card
     

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