Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim - Secret Agent, Soldier and Statesman

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by amoy, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,519
    Likes Received:
    1,544
    I used to think Sibelius and Nokia may be better known Finn names among Chinese. @jouni I just found actually Secret Agent, Soldier and Statesman – Horse That Leaps Through Clouds | Retracing Mannerheim's Journey Across Asia is another Finn who had a lot to do with China (though perhaps of Dutch descent?).

    Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim

    [​IMG]
    Mannerheim met the 13th Dalai Lama in Central China as Russia was competing with Britain for infiltrating into Tibet.

    He's "the Greatest Finn of all time" Of course for his feats such as -

    - See more at: Secret Agent, Soldier and Statesman – Horse That Leaps Through Clouds | Retracing Mannerheim's Journey Across Asia
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    Kay, ghost and TrueSpirit1 like this.
  2.  
  3. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    He is a true statesman alright, respected by at least by Czar of Russia, Churchill, Roosevelt, Hitler and Stalin. He embodies what Finland is all about: you can be friend of everybody and still do it all for your country. No need to use your life gathering enemies. I hope his trips to China don't make him enemy of India in the eyes of Indians, though.

    He was also bi-sexual crossdresser, which maybe is why in Finland sexual freedom has been appreciated for a long time.

    Historical overview of the Marshal's situation. His military image was created in the image to mask his true nature. His generation of the high-ranking Finnish officers knew about Marshal's bisexuality, artistic soul, and bohemianism. Mannerheim's appointment for the White Finnish Army Commander and the appointment later to Marshall of Finland caused a certain types of swallowing by Finnish officers at the highest stage.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
  4. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,519
    Likes Received:
    1,544
    Well, that "crossdresser" part was not what I knew of Carl :eyebrows:

    He had a Chinese name and took a lot of photos.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here's his journal on his missions -


    [​IMG]
     
    ghost likes this.
  5. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    His history made him great in a way, that he understood world and human soul. He knew how to both start and end a war. His actions in the war are testament to that, for example he refused to bomb Leningrad and he did not cut permanently Murmansk railroad. I think that he and Sun Tzu would have had great time together!

    [​IMG]
    Mannerheim with General Erfurh. He was a great culinarist.

    http://www.mannerheim.fi/10_ylip/e_ryyppy.htm

    His letter to Hitler when Finland decided to make separate peace. He promised that Germans will be remembered as comrades of arms, not enemy. I can vouch for that today they are remember just like that in Finland.

    Marshal CG Mannerheim's "Letter" Adolf Hitler 02.09.1944:



    This in front of the difficult decisions the moment I feel the need to inform you like coming to the belief that the rescue of the people requires me to quickly find a way to break away from the current war.
    The general war situation unfavorable to the development of Germany to restrict more and more opportunities to give us probably still coming reason of the greatest times of need at the right time and in sufficient quantity for assistance which may need and that Germany was in my view, sincerely would like to submit to us. Already a single German division Moving to Finland takes time so much so that in the meantime, our resistance to collapse the enemy's superiority. The situation does not allow, as you well understand, the fact that a sufficient number of German divisions would be considered specifically in Finland operational.

    Here put forward military assessment of the situation, it is an ever growing majority of Finnish MPs. Even if I were in the second and soul, then I will not constitutional, the longer it would be possible to ignore this for now, clearly indicate the majority of the people's will. When Mr. General Field Marshal Keitel Your mandate of the recently visited me, he referred to the fact that the Greater German people will undoubtedly be able to go to war for another ten years, if fate so requires. I pointed out that, even if - as I hope - this is true of 90-million people, it is certain, however, that we Finns alone, we are unable to withstand the degree of physical relaxation is longer than the war. Already the Russians in June's major attack has cleared the Reserve. We can no longer allow ourselves the kind of blood loss without compromising the size of a small Finnish nation's continued existence.
    I would particularly like to emphasize that, although if fate will grant your weapons success, Germany will, however, still live. The same can not be said about Finnish people. If this is unlikely that if four million people would be won militarily, it seems without a doubt that thet will be deported from their country or disposed of extinction. Such as endangered I can not let my people.

    Although hardly venture to hope that you recognize true or you accept this aspect and to my argument, however, I wanted to before the decision to send you these lines.
    Your path is Likely to be very different from our way soon. But the German comrades memorial will be here in life. In Finland the Germans are by no means been the guest of violence representatives, but helpers and comrades in arms. But such is the position of the visitors always difficult and more demanding. I can provide you with a certificate that the whole of the last few years in Finland, nothing has happened, what might we see in the German forces in the country that are stuffed or oppressors. I believe that the North-Finland-based approach of the German army on the population and the authorities will move our history may be a unique example in similar conditions, intervals of advanced correctivity and warmth.
    I like my duty to lead people out of the war. I do my own will never be able to and I do not want to turn our guns upon us so generously been donated, against the Germans. I hope that you, even though you does not agree with this in its written submissions, and would you like me and all the Finnish implemented so far and our relationship with the final settlement at all costs to avoid their unnecessary escalation
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
    ghost likes this.
  6. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,519
    Likes Received:
    1,544
    Ya, indeed. I try also to find an Asian parallel to him and Finland. Perhaps Thailand (Siam) matches Finland in some ways. Siam was forced aboard Japan in WW2 initially but fortunately pulled out in due time and maintained her independence without much of loss.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    ghost and jouni like this.
  7. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
  8. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    Two years ago a movie was made about Mannerheim, he was played by a black actor, which caused some controversy in Finland ( also with Hitler )



    [​IMG]

    Statue of Mannerheim and Finnish parliament house ( Finnish parliament house was inspiration to new Reichs chancellory built in the late thirties in Berlin )

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    Kay, amoy and ghost like this.
  9. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    Movie about Mannerheims visit to China "the butterfly of Ural"



     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    ghost likes this.
  10. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    Hitler´s visit to Mannerheims birthday ( note how the Finns does not do "german salute")



    Mannerheims visit to Hitler ( etiquette required )

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    ghost likes this.
  11. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
    amoy likes this.
  12. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    His funeral in Helsinki

    [​IMG]
     
  13. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,519
    Likes Received:
    1,544
    I like @jouni 's signature in particular, which I just noticed. A land of aurora maybe :tea:
    [​IMG]

    To an extent Mannerheim as the helmsman wisely steered the nation out of a David-and-Goliath fight.

    [​IMG]
    The passport China (Qing Dynasty) issued to him

    [​IMG]
    His marks perhaps
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    jouni likes this.
  14. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,519
    Likes Received:
    1,544
    Speaking of "cross-dressing" many great minds share interesting "hobbies", like our emperor Yongzheng, who had himself painted in different dresses, a precursor of modern-day cosplay.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Kay and jouni like this.
  15. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    I think many great leaders have softer or feminine side. Maybe that is even the secret of their success and popularity. They got that "mystic" quality in the eyes of population.
     
  16. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    [​IMG]

    Mannerheims bust revealed in St.Petersburg in 2007.

    According to Malyshev, “Stalin did not forget 1939 but he viewed the Finish marshal with his own unique respect, personally crossing out his name among the list of those accused in Nuremburg” where many others wanted him to face justice as an ally of Hitler.

    http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.fi/2014/02/window-on-eurasia-stalin-mannerheim-and.html

    Finnish independence is due to the World War sacrifices of its excellent army. The dictator, Stalin himself, said in 1948:

    "Nobody respects a country with a poor army, but everybody respects a country with a good army. I raise my toast to the Finnish Army."
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  17. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    [​IMG]

    Putin lays wreath at Mannerheims grave.

    President of Russia

    Medvedev lays flowers to Mannerheims grave

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  18. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    "... in war the psychological factors are often decisive. An adversary who feels inferior is in reality so."

    Carl Gustav Baron von Mannerheim - Finnish Supreme Commander, The Memoirs of Field Marshal Mannerheim, 1953
    .

    [video=youtube_share;Z920TsoAnQA]http://youtu.be/Z920TsoAnQA[/video]

    Choir sings Finlandia hymn at Mannerheims grave on christmas eve.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  19. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    [​IMG]

    Mannerheim at Görings hunting lodge "Carinhalle". Görings hunting laws are still used in Germany today.
     
  20. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    [video=youtube_share;gHrS7XvEiCo]http://youtu.be/gHrS7XvEiCo[/video]
    @JBH22, Here is documentary about Finlands Nazi collaboration.
    @Ray, @pmaitra, @Razor, sirs (document is in four parts)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  21. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    @jouni, thank you for sharing this documentary.

    The good thing: It acknowledges that the Nazis were evil.

    The bad things: It leaves out some convenient facts about history, and smears the documentary with the tag of propaganda.

    Firstly, according to this documentary, Mannerheim lead the country to independence. According to what I know, the Russian Republic, wanted Russification of Finland while Finland wanted to be an autonomous state within the new Russian Republic. The Russians were prepared to fight the Finns, and had they fought, they would have probably won, as the Russian Army then was a very professional army with well trained and experienced officers. It was Lenin who granted a bloodless independence to Finland, and it is not true, at least to me, that Mannerheim led Finland to independence, but perhaps that is what they teach in Finnish history books, just like those fraudulent claims that Prince Rurik was Finnish.

    The Civil War that this documentary refers to happened after Lenin granted Finland its independence, and squarely blames the Reds of having received support from the Russian Communists. We all know who supported the Communists in Russia - yes, the English and Germans. Because the Reds won in Russia, the Whites had to win in Finland. Had the Whites won in Russia, the Reds would have received Anglo-German support in Finland. The entire Bolshevik Revolution was an Anglo-German plan to weaken Russia, but the Bolsheviks had their own plans. Mannerheim was no different from Stalin. He set up his own gulags where he killed 11,000 of his countrymen.

    Secondly, this documentary states that Mannerheim might have known the Russian Army like the back of his hand, but the Soviet Army that invaded Finland was Stalin's Army, devoid of the trained officer corps of the old Russian Army, and Finland's defeat was less severe only because the Soviet Army was not as good as the old Russian Army. This documentary does a poor job of distinguishing between "Russian" Army and "Soviet" Army. It mentions "Red" Army only in the end.

    This documentary gives undue adulation to Mannerheim and lacks objectivity.

    Were the Finns right in allying with the Nazis to defend their land? Yes. Is Finland right in refusing to condemn Nazism today? No.

    P.S.: Pardon me if this comes across as a curt response. I have a fanatic obsession with historical accuracy. Very recently I have accommodated changes in my stance towards Vladimir Lenin, thanks to some persuasive arguments by another knowledgeable member @Razor. Folks in this forum know how much I have defended Lenin.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015

Share This Page