BRICS Development Bank

[pmaitra]

Guys,

Please do not write in all caps.
Please write in English.

 

[amoy]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

This is a good proposal. Petty politics should be put aside.

Indeed. Rather than infighting members shall focus on making use of this new leverage to their advantage within and beyond the bloc.

Some geopolitical implications are surfacing even though the Bank is still in the offing

Brazil now has it to elevate her standing in Latin America >>> https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/brics-south-american-leaders-hold-053204936.html

Rousseff left open the possibility of using the fund to help non-BRICS nations, saying the group would be willing to "examine" any request from Argentina.

"We are open to see what relationship (the fund) could have with countries outside the BRICS group but it hasn't been decided yet because we just formed this institution," she said after Tuesday's summit.

"If Argentina will benefit or not is something that we will have to examine "¦ (but) first Argentina must make a request," she said. "Our view is that we would be generous to developing countries."

Russia also needs it as an offset to the "freeze-out" >>> Faced With Western Freeze-Out, BRICS Bank Is a Coup for Russia | Business | The Moscow Times

Russia's recent experience over Ukraine has shown that the West is ready to eject politically unruly countries from its economic system. If they are able to successfully establish themselves, the BRICS's inauguration of multilateral financial institutions rooted outside the reach of Western oversight could provide insulation from Western economic clout to countries like Russia and China, whose growth threatens to put it at odds with Japan, a U.S. ally and G7 member.

 

[nimo_cn]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

India will ensure that China does not try to dominate others !!!

All BRICS countries will contribute equally... If India objects funds for TIBET then China have to respect that ...

One China and One India are mutually inclusive....

BRICS without India will fail ....

then India has to provide good causes for your objections, otherwise it only proves that India is an irresponsible partner.

equality is what separates brics bank from other similar existing organizations, but that doesnt mean every member in the bank will have the equal amount of influence.

China will have more influence than India, that is natural since China has more strength. it's something India has to accept and adjust to, not something you fight against.

so far, India is not doing good as a constructive contributor. the bank almost could not make it because at the last minute India was still pitching Delhi although the other 3 agreed on Shanghai. in order to make it happen, Brasil gave on the first presidency in exchange for India's compromise.

Shanghai has unparalled advantages over Delhi to be the headquarter of the bank, what India was doing is simply selfish.

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[bose]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

then India has to provide good causes for your objections, otherwise it only proves that India is an irresponsible partner.

equality is what separates brics bank from other similar existing organizations, but that doesnt mean every member in the bank will have the equal amount of influence.

China will have more influence than India, that is natural since China has more strength. it's something India has to accept and adjust to, not something you fight against.

so far, India is not doing good as a constructive contributor. the bank almost could not make it because at the last minute India was still pitching Delhi although the other 3 agreed on Shanghai. in order to make it happen, Brasil gave on the first presidency in exchange for India's compromise.

Shanghai has unparalled advantages over Delhi to be the headquarter of the bank, what India was doing is simply selfish.

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All will have equal influence as they all contribute equally for the corpus... As I said India wants to ensure that China does not try to take advantage un duly ...

 

[nrupatunga]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

China will be providing Brazil's and South Africa's funding tranches for the bank as several callable notes made to specialized entities set up in each of those countries. The board members from those countries come from those entities, and not directly from their governments. China can call in portions or all of Brazil's and South Africa's funding tranches at any time, effectively granting China de facto control over the votes of Brazil and South Africa because China can unilaterally defund those entities and hence kick them out of the bank at any time. In conjunction with Russia's concession to Chinese leadership on this issue, China controls 4/5ths of the votes in the bank.

India gets the president post for 5 years, but the bylaws of the bank will not be set up like the IMF/World Bank where the President has de facto project authority. Under the new bylaws (which China won the right to write), the vast majority of the bank's authority will be concentrated in an operating staff drawn from the Chinese Ministry of Finance and Chinese Development Bank, and they will be the ones responsible for finding projects for the bank to lend to.

Of course, it is well and good that the Indian commentariat feels like it has 'won' on this issue, given how easily bruised their feelings are. But de facto power in the bank still resides in China's hands, it will be hidden, and the average Indian will never know about it.

This is not to suggest India 'lost' at the meeting. India's weak hand at the meeting, coupled with China's skill at trade and commercial negotiation, meant this outcome was a foregone conclusion. It is interesting, however, to see how Modi has shown his skills as a politician and manager of public relations, even if his lack of experience in playing hardball international negotiation (he has only been PM for 2 months vs. Xi's experience as China's VP since 2008) has shown through.

Can you please elaborate(about the part highlighted in bold). Basically i want to know how the bank could/would function. What are the roles& responsibilities of president and other board members. #justasking. Also please provide links for that. Thanks.

 

[Samar Rathi]

So far i can grasp from the Chinese members comment seems unhinged as if this is the case then what they always talk about Multipolar world?

China seems to be pushing for Chinese hegemony rather than USA hegemony so there is a collision of interests between India and China and even Russia and China.

It will be interesting to see how this bank will developed but by far it seems doomed because sooner or later India will back out due to Chinese influence over bank.

Just my speculation from Chinese posters comment

 

[Meriv90]

Amigos here comes a potential [1ST] biz for NEW Development Bank

China supports Peru-Brazil transcontinental railway


Perfectly engaging Brazil and China as BRICS founding members, plus Peru a neighbour of Brazil

LOL it isn't a railway, it is a simple highway, and since it is crossing the amazonia you can imagine how big il will be

If brasil really wants to connect to China there is already a transoceanic railway trought Bolivia, just 20 km left to connect the two sides and the need to modernize it. Plus Bolivia is chinese friendly and has a strategic world resource, 50% of world lithium, everyone that understand a bit of electronics know how important it is, if not just open your cellphone battery slot and read it.

so it is just propaganda

 

[nimo_cn]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

All will have equal influence as they all contribute equally for the corpus... As I said India wants to ensure that China does not try to take advantage un duly ...

theoritically, each member has equal influence. in reality, the one with more resource will have an upper hand.

each country offered a city to be the headquarter of the bank, Shanghai wons because of its unmatched advantage. there will be other cases in the future where China offers items no one would deny, that is influence.

India's insecurity over Chinese influence in the bank right before the establishment of the bank sends a disturbing signal, that India could very possibly be an obstacle to the operation of the bank.

if India's priority is to contain Chinese influence in the bank instead of promoting the influence of the bank globally, i am expecting more inner struggle within the bank in the future. i think China should not put too much faith in the bank.

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[amoy]

LOL it isn't a railway, it is a simple highway, and since it is crossing the amazonia you can imagine how big il will be

If brasil really wants to connect to China there is already a transoceanic railway trought Bolivia, just 20 km left to connect the two sides and the need to modernize it. Plus Bolivia is chinese friendly and has a strategic world resource, 50% of world lithium, everyone that understand a bit of electronics know how important it is, if not just open your cellphone battery slot and read it.

so it is just propaganda

Well, based on sources available so far all points to a "trilateral work group" to be set up. If this were merely a "propaganda" as u suggested, the 3 countries really have made it BIG involving the 3 presidents in the hoooopla but what's the point for such a bravado?

During a meeting with Peruvian President Ollanta Humala, Xi noted that the three countries will issue a joint statement later in the day on the railway project, which will run all the way from the Peruvian Pacific coast to the Brazilian Atlantic coast.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2014xibricssummit/2014-07/17/content_17808950.htm

Meantime I agree commercial viability of such a gigantic project does look doubtful.

In 2011 China Largest Investor in Brazil -

Chinese direct investment and value of foreign assets in Brazil totaled over US$ 15 billion as of 2010, according to an official with the Brazilian government.

In 2010 alone, Chinese public and private investment in Brazil increased to US$ 300 million, making it the largest investor in Brazil, said Tatiana Rosito, minister-counselor to Brazil's embassy in Beijing.

 

[bose]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

theoritically, each member has equal influence. in reality, the one with more resource will have an upper hand.

Since all will contribute financially equally so China getting upper hand does not exist. Moreover India will be heading the Bank for next 6 years... China will try to influence it but if it tries to dominate India will stand upto it...

each country offered a city to be the headquarter of the bank, Shanghai wons because of its unmatched advantage. there will be other cases in the future where China offers items no one would deny, that is influence.

New Delhi provides same facilities as Shanghai... un solicited influence from China will be taken care off by India... make no mistake... India provides as much as China...

India's insecurity over Chinese influence in the bank right before the establishment of the bank sends a disturbing signal, that India could very possibly be an obstacle to the operation of the bank.

if India's priority is to contain Chinese influence in the bank instead of promoting the influence of the bank globally, i am expecting more inner struggle within the bank in the future. i think China should not put too much faith in the bank.

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The so called BRICS bank will be a disaster if China wants to poke its nose into its operations... India will resist it tooth and nail...
It is India and Japan are the only countries that can contain China...

 

[Meriv90]

Well, based on sources available so far all points to a "trilateral work group" to be set up. If this were merely a "propaganda" as u suggested, the 3 countries really have made it BIG involving the 3 leaders in the hoooopla but what's the point for such a bravado?


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2014xibricssummit/2014-07/17/content_17808950.htm

Meantime I agree the return on investment in such a gigantic project does look doubtful.

In 2011 China Largest Investor in Brazil -

Becuase you don't how much opposition is building a highway trought amazonian jungle generate, and we aren't speaking about China, luckely Brasil is a democracy, etnics groups, opposition, ngo, etc.. Etc.. Will be all over the place. Plus they will be under media cover since olympics are coming and after all FIFA world cup protest .

It will awake the Sino fear that is present in some countries like argentina were they had to stop you land grabbing.

China plants bitter seeds in South American farmland - Washington Times

second, are you going to transport soy beans on wheels for all that distance? Please don't make me laught at how much the price of that transport will be.

third, in a country like brasil do you think ship ports lobbies (I don't have time to look for the economist article about brasil logistics) will allow this?(check demography map of the country)

 

[right wing]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

Bose you are a BBB- country versus China that has AA- credit ranking. Your 10 billions have less value than chinese one because they have a lot more garantees.

It is like comparing Japan (AA-) to Morocco (BBB-).

And the rest of the brics can easily be blackmailed by China imports.

...we are donating as a bank not as a nation,so no difference here with the chinese...it will be bank money,not his or her money,the bank will get common rating...
blackmailing russia and brazil is not very easy,usa couldnt blackmail brazil,and it imports hugely from her,and putin will claim his huge pound of flesh...self defeating for china to sell out so much just to check india...

 

[right wing]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

theoritically, each member has equal influence. in reality, the one with more resource will have an upper hand.

each country offered a city to be the headquarter of the bank, Shanghai wons because of its unmatched advantage. there will be other cases in the future where China offers items no one would deny, that is influence.

India's insecurity over Chinese influence in the bank right before the establishment of the bank sends a disturbing signal, that India could very possibly be an obstacle to the operation of the bank.

if India's priority is to contain Chinese influence in the bank instead of promoting the influence of the bank globally, i am expecting more inner struggle within the bank in the future. i think China should not put too much faith in the bank.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

surely the chinese leadership isnt....it is already making plans for asian investment bank...with full chinese control..it has again made a dangle by inviting india as a founding member with a cake slice stake....india may well take it,cause frankly our pm is a gujju,who knows the value for money lik u guys.
in return for our support to that bank,u will give us cheap cash in our infra projects...bigger and grander on scale than even most chinese projects...
it gives u business and gets our work done...

But as far the BRICS bank is concerned,neither u or we benefit much of it,because tussle for power will be there..it is mainly aimed to tell the imf and world bank to behave..rather than fund the developing world...

 

[right wing]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

theoritically, each member has equal influence. in reality, the one with more resource will have an upper hand.

each country offered a city to be the headquarter of the bank, Shanghai wons because of its unmatched advantage. there will be other cases in the future where China offers items no one would deny, that is influence.

India's insecurity over Chinese influence in the bank right before the establishment of the bank sends a disturbing signal, that India could very possibly be an obstacle to the operation of the bank.

if India's priority is to contain Chinese influence in the bank instead of promoting the influence of the bank globally, i am expecting more inner struggle within the bank in the future. i think China should not put too much faith in the bank.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

u won shanghai because putin and mms had gifted it to u,else u wudnt have it...
south africa wud hav got it...and similarly brazil and sa pitched indian head at the bank to stem ur influence...so brazil is not that friendly or afraid of u...it has dreams of controlling southern hemisphere...it doesnt give a damn about usa,nor will u get to bully it...
so better believe in democratic bank working and get full support from india...we always support good initiatives...from recognising ur nation,to helping u in initial years,to helping u in un ,even after that backstab....if ur just,u get our support...simple!!!so be just and dont bully...it will not help u...and this ur leaders know..

 

[p2prada]

What is the voting percentage for each country? Is it 20% each?

 

[EXPERT]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

surely the chinese leadership isnt....it is already making plans for asian investment bank...with full chinese control..it has again made a dangle by inviting india as a founding member with a cake slice stake....india may well take it,cause frankly our pm is a gujju,who knows the value for money lik u guys.
in return for our support to that bank,u will give us cheap cash in our infra projects...bigger and grander on scale than even most chinese projects...
it gives u business and gets our work done...

But as far the BRICS bank is concerned,neither u or we benefit much of it,because tussle for power will be there..it is mainly aimed to tell the imf and world bank to behave..rather than fund the developing world...

Yeah, but Chinese always want to show there influence. .
They don't want to be equal in any aspect so they always put some extraaaaaa butter on every decision.
Don't you worry Indians are best in eating butter without any harm ,but the bread will be distributed equally. . .

 

[EXPERT]

What is the voting percentage for each country? Is it 20% each?

Yes it's 20% each. . .

 

[p2prada]

Yes it's 20% each. . .

Not bad. We have a say in at least one major institution. It's a start.

 

[aerokan]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

Bose you are a BBB- country versus China that has AA- credit ranking. Your 10 billions have less value than chinese one because they have a lot more garantees.

It is like comparing Japan (AA-) to Morocco (BBB-).

And the rest of the brics can easily be blackmailed by China imports.

Probably you need to revise your basics again.

Let me give you a simple question:

Which one has more value? (One 10 dollar bill) or (Ten 1 dollar bills)?

For those who still could not understand, Indian contribution of 10 billion American dollars is not less than Chinese contribution of 10 billion American dollars and certainly would not be any different if an alien from a different planet gives 10 billion American dollars at any given point of time. Just so you know, India holds around 300 billion dollars of forex reserves, more than enough to meet it's obligations in dollars. Let's talk when the currency to fund the BRICS bank change from dollars to SDR's/(new reserve currency)/commodities/gold etc.

If China can blackmail Brazil and Russia which have similar GDP's as India, what stops China from blackmailing India? (when the percentage of trade (import & export combined) with China stands at 10 - 16% for all the BRICS nations and all of them have no big difference in trade balance in favor of the respective countries against China).

 

[aerokan]

Re: Brics bank and what does india get out of it

then India has to provide good causes for your objections, otherwise it only proves that India is an irresponsible partner.

equality is what separates brics bank from other similar existing organizations, but that doesnt mean every member in the bank will have the equal amount of influence.

China will have more influence than India, that is natural since China has more strength. it's something India has to accept and adjust to, not something you fight against.

so far, India is not doing good as a constructive contributor. the bank almost could not make it because at the last minute India was still pitching Delhi although the other 3 agreed on Shanghai. in order to make it happen, Brasil gave on the first presidency in exchange for India's compromise.

Shanghai has unparalled advantages over Delhi to be the headquarter of the bank, what India was doing is simply selfish.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

theoritically, each member has equal influence. in reality, the one with more resource will have an upper hand.

each country offered a city to be the headquarter of the bank, Shanghai wons because of its unmatched advantage. there will be other cases in the future where China offers items no one would deny, that is influence.

India's insecurity over Chinese influence in the bank right before the establishment of the bank sends a disturbing signal, that India could very possibly be an obstacle to the operation of the bank.

if India's priority is to contain Chinese influence in the bank instead of promoting the influence of the bank globally, i am expecting more inner struggle within the bank in the future. i think China should not put too much faith in the bank.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

Would you be kind enough to explain what 'unparalleled advantages' and 'unmatched advantages' Shanghai has over the other countries to setup a BRICS bank?

India is not an obstacle if Chinese objective is the smooth running of the bank with equal importance to all the BRICS countries. Yes, India is and will be an obstacle, if China's ambition is to replicate USA in IMF. It's not India which is being selfish here. You conveniently sidetracked China's insistence on higher percentage share for more money and making an issue out of the location of the BRICS bank true to the nature of Chinese stronghold of sidetracking.

As you rightfully observed, China should not put too much faith in this bank because China can't live without hegemony and false pride and India couldn't resist being an obstacle to any kind of hegemony. No wonder we almost always end up on the opposite sides because China still couldn't get out of its shame induced inferiority complex even after 100 years.