Brand new IAF C-130 crashed in Gawalior

Yatharth Singh

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Did I forgot to add that kids of army personnels are given preference over other candidate??
What kind of professionalism is this???
I know that someone lost his brother/father/husband and that brave guy flying c-130j was serving his country and gave his life while doing his duty.
But its not about valor and bravery,it's about the unprofessionalism of the trip services.
Exactly why army brats are given priority above other candidates??
Because there father is something big in army and nothing else.
Chacha bhatijawaad is not good for the tri-services.
Why these men have to loose there life in the first place???
Until or unless this unprofessionalism is removed from the army we will have to see the brave guys loosing there lives.
Do you know that our army still follow those colonial era rules made by Britishers???
Please dont go there because those discussions on quota and reservations have no limit. Thats a huge topic involving not just armed forces but entire nation.
Of course it might be due to lack of maintenance from support staff but lets hold our calm, wait for the inquiry to finish and then comment upon the unprofessionalism. Accidents happen. Much more have taken place within the most professional forces of the world. IAF is young and still has much to learn from experiences. BUT it is among the most professional forces of this world without a doubt. SKILLS MATTER.
 

laughingbuddha

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Could it have been executing low level maneuvers? After all this aircraft has been procured for our special forces.
 

Yatharth Singh

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Buddy i can understand your feeling and i also do feel the same about the dead ones but let's face the fact that the I.A.F. is one of the most incompetent air forces in the entire world.It's record speaks for itself.There are dozens of countries that operate Mig-21 or J-7 aircraft on a regular basis for the last 3 or 4 decades but it's only our I.A.F. pilots who literally made a impeccable record of crashing more than half of the Mig-21 aircraft built by India.Mate most of the Indian members in this forums are nationalists and shower both love and respect to the Indian Armed Forces but we must be rational regarding this type of incident caused due to insufficient pilot training.
I am being rational thats why I wrote it. Most of the Migs built by HAL were seriously flawed and poor maintenance made them vulnerable to crash and to catch fire in flight. Its the HAL i would rather say who is unprofessional.
And "Insufficient Pilot Training", seriously! Those insufficiently trained pilots showed USAF and Pentagon its stand against the PROFESSIONAL Air Forces in the world during the joint air exercises in the past..
I might doubt the quality of fleet maintenance crew of the IAF but never that of its pilots because they are hardened by 100s of hours of training upon simulators and actual jets.
 

Eastman

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I hope a fair and transparent investigation happens and report released so that we can know where has the lapse occurred and rectified, as it was an US plane and a highly reputed one, I hope US investigators steps in.
 
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Peter

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RIP to those who died in this unfortunate incident.I wish such an incident never occurs in future.
 

SilentKiller

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Govt needs to own up responsibility for IAF accidents: BJP | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

they are playing politics with this tragedy, as if planes will fly without accident if they come to power :tsk:
really @&^&# politics. Brave men have died.
Without knowledge and half knowledge blame game is bad. let pray for those u died and wait for investigation report.
Plane crashes do happen its a machine and person flying them is a Human. We all can make mistake but their can take their lives so be sincere with ur comments.
So please be responsible, i though this forum is of responsible people who analyse before writing, don't disappoint.
 

SilentKiller

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Could it have been executing low level maneuvers? After all this aircraft has been procured for our special forces.
Might be its a military move and such moves r risky, if its executed well we will watch video and say wow and post and send this video on whatsapp and when such sad incidents happen will bring and write wrong comments forward few junk msg such as only 2 C130's have crashed till date etc.
 

Sea Eagle

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Sources said the C-130J was part of the two aircraft formation that had taken off from Agra and was to carry put low-level flying training before RTB

The Aircraft was inducted in 2010, was commanded by Wing Commander Prashant Joshi, an experienced pilot and Second-in-Command of the 77 "Veiled Viper" squadron
It had three others on board, including one undergoing training

The aircraft numbered KC 3803 was the number two in formation. The loss of aircraft was ascertained by the lead aircraft and rescue choppers from Gwalior were sent.

The crash was sudden and there was no indication from the crew that anything was wrong

The investigation is expected to be focused on a Controlled Flight Into Terrian (CFIT) situation or a sudden loss of control due to a technical or human error.

Accounts from ground said the aircraft was observed to be flying low and hitting a small hillock before disintegrating and catching fire
 

pmaitra

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To those suggesting the US has supplied low quality airplane, I doubt it. This is not Boeing, and this particular model has a good track record.

To those suggesting the US flipped the kill switch, I doubt it. It will only hurt the reputation of an American company.

My bet is on poor maintenance, or pilot error, or both.
 

hit&run

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Go ahead and ask your robots to fly for one of the world's largest air force,in the most harsh and diverse terrains in the world. Go and ask your robots to fly pounding the enemy arses and bringing relief during calamities.
Seriously man,what the hell is wrong with you people? I can understand people across the border sh!tmouthing,but why my own people? Crashes happen everywhere for a variety of reasons. Why in the hell are you blaming our men and institutions when even the reason for the crash isn't determined.
You have missed the whole point, wasn't expected from you. You guys want to treat this thread to mourn the death of those soldiers.....I am fine with it. Please don't quote me now, cause that will derail the discussion of condolences etc.

Regards.
 

happy

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IAF trophy plane crashes

New Delhi, March 28: Five soldiers were killed when one of the most modern planes with the Indian military crashed near Gwalior this morning, marking a prolonged year of disasters for the armed forces.

The Super Hercules C-130J, codenamed "Dragon 2", took off from the Indian Air Force base in Agra at 10 this morning and, in an hour, crashed 112km west of Gwalior on the Rajasthan-Madhya Pradesh border.

This is only the third reported crash of a Herc — as the Hercules is called — in more than 30 years of operations with 16 air forces worldwide. Each aircraft cost around Rs 1,000 crore at the 2008 exchange rate of the rupee against the dollar.

This aircraft was the second of two on a training mission and was captained by Wing Commander Prashant Joshi. The other crew members were the co-pilot, Wing Commander Raji Nair, Squadron Leader Kaushik Mishra (also a pilot), navigator Squadron Leader Ashish Yadav and systems operator (flight gunner) Warrant Officer Krishna Pal Singh.

But for Nair, whose family is based in Agra, the rest of the crew have their families in Hindon, just east of Delhi, where the 77 "Veiled Vipers" Squadron commanded by Group Captain Tejbir Singh is based.

The Herc is a special operations and tactical transport aircraft with four engines. Its makers, Lockheed Martin of the US, claim it can fly even on just one engine and its safety record is better than most commercial aircraft's even if it is primarily used for military purposes.

In August, the Indian defence ministry had described the landing of a C-130J at the 14,000ft-high Daulat Beg Oldie airstrip — the world's highest — in Ladakh near the China frontier as a "significant capability demonstration". Even now, an IAF Herc is deployed in Malaysia in the search for the missing Malaysian Boeing 777, flight MH 370.

An Indian Air Force court of inquiry — mandatory after each accident — should be able to detect the causes of today's crash more easily than those of most such mishaps. The flight data recorder (black box) has been recovered from the site that was visited after the incident by the IAF's directors-general (inspection and safety and air operations). But the IAF doubts it will have eyewitness accounts from the "buddy" aircraft because it (Dragon 1) was in the lead.

IAF spokesperson Group Captain Gerard Galway said the aircraft were on a "routine training sortie" from Agra.

The Agra airbase is also home to the Para Training School for special forces of both the army and the air force. The C-130J, configured for tactical manoeuvres, including insertion of troops behind enemy lines and delivery of cargo, is often deployed to Agra from Hindon. This particular aircraft was tasked to return to Agra after manoeuvres.

It is understood that part of the manoeuvres involved the risky business of flying extra low-level or "tree top height", which tests not only the technology of the aircraft but also piloting skill.

The Opposition BJP, in the heat of the election season, was quick to point a finger at defence minister A.K. Antony's style of functioning because of the series of incidents that have rocked the armed forces.

Last month, navy chief Admiral Devendra Kumar Joshi resigned in disgust after two officers were killed in a submarine mishap. Last year, five Indian Army soldiers were beheaded near the Line of Control and even this morning, one was killed in a firefight with militants in Jammu and Kashmir.

"This is absolutely a shocking incident. The Hercules is such a sturdy aircraft, it doesn't meet with such accidents. It needs not just only an inquiry but the government needs to own up responsibility," BJP spokesperson Prakash Javadekar said.

The plane that crashed today was procured through a government-to-government deal from the US.

"We are very saddened by the incident and we are standing by to provide any assistance that the IAF may require," said a spokesperson for Lockheed, the plane's manufacturer.

It is understood that the IAF is already in touch with the company to investigate the causes. A total of six C-130J Hercules were procured under a $1.1-billion (about Rs 6,000 crore) deal signed with the US in 2008.

The first aircraft was delivered in 2011, two months before schedule. The Indian government has pursued a follow-on order for six more of the aircraft.

The crash today has baffled the IAF. An officer who knew Wing Commander Prashant Joshi, who was commanding the aircraft, said "he had plenty of wind beneath his wings", meaning that he was vastly experienced and knew how to keep flying even in dangerous circumstances.

The loss of the C-130J, after India's biggest loss of a military platform in peacetime —the sinking of the INS Sindhurakshak submarine in Mumbai in August last year — peppered with other lesser incidents, is prompting the armed forces to ask if it is their poor safety standards or if the malaise goes deeper into management principles. While the submarine was old but had been upgraded, the C-130J is a brand new platform.
 

acetophenol

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You have missed the whole point, wasn't expected from you. You guys want to treat this thread to mourn the death of those soldiers.....I am fine with it. Please don't quote me now, cause that will derail the discussion of condolences etc.

Regards.
You have asked me not to quote you,but I am sorry,I can't resist it. All those who were loud mouthing about "poor training" and "poor maintenance" of IAF,see,the latest reports indicate the aircraft was carrying out maneuvers,flying at tree top heights with cargo. Not matter how good you are accidents do happen,especially when you are doing such risky stuff.
 

Known_Unknown

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Great, $200 million down the drain in an instant. :toilet: Just imagine how much money we've lost so far on hundreds of avoidable incidents involving expensive subs and jets. And then the armed forces cry for more money and more hi-tech equipment-even though they have a hard time maintaining the stuff they already have. These frequent crashes, fires and sinkings have become an embarrassment and demonstrate the incompetence of all branches of the armed forces.

Let us hope (against hope and despite a record of inertia in this regard) that this leads to some positive changes in training, processes and personnel.
 

Bhadra

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hit&run

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You have asked me not to quote you,but I am sorry,I can't resist it. All those who were loud mouthing about "poor training" and "poor maintenance" of IAF,see,the latest reports indicate the aircraft was carrying out maneuvers,flying at tree top heights with cargo. Not matter how good you are accidents do happen,especially when you are doing such risky stuff.
No problem, more people talk to me more I get the idea of their level of intellect. So thanks.

Accidents don't happen, only dick heads do accidents and those innocents who do not do accidents still die being there, at wrong time-wrong place.

In this case the plane was manoeuvred (your own words) and got involved in a deadly crash. The fault lies with Pilot; how difficult it is for you to understand ? There are detailed practises and protocols in place (universally) in aviation, on how planes should be manoeuvred when flying low or doing any manoeuvre what so ever.

No one spends 10,000,000,000 Rupees on a plane and hand over it to trainees to fly low and bump it on muddy humps. If it wasn't a trainee but an expert then the sin gets sinner.

BTW have you ever managed a business or an organization involving machineries ? Do you even know what organizations do to people who do accidents ? They are grounded forever.

As long as such mentality is going to prevail that ACCIDENTS DO HAPPEN I see future of our forces bleak and such News flashing frequently heck It has been the case with us, no wonder.

I remember Decklender boasting in this forum how he would get hold on new machines and assigned for new roles after crashing few before, serving IN. 'Sab kuch Bhagwaan ke saharey'.
 

hit&run

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Let us hope (against hope and despite a record of inertia in this regard) that this leads to some positive changes in training, processes and personnel.
This is the most important thing now.

I remember one of the active poster who is a commercial pilot flying Boeing 777 on another forum, after an incident stating with confidence that now this mistake will never happen in the history of aviation in their part of the world and many other dos and don'ts will becomes mandatory part of their training manual.
 

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