BrahMos Cruise Missile

[AmoghaVarsha]

Isnt extended range 450km and not 600km?

 

[archie]

'ER' is just a fancy word added to Brahmos, Current Brahmos was always capable to cover 600km range. The actual Brahmos ER (Block V?) will have 900-1000km range.

i think it comes down to the profile of the flight.. Hi-Lo should be optimum distance and Lo-Lo should be max stealth... and that should give the range differences

 

[no smoking]

Not posts but to destroy your entire airforce bases and bridges....

No, India missile force doesn't have the necessary quality, quantity and training to carry on such scale of strike.

New generation brahmos are especially developed for mountain warfare along the india tibbet borders .

No, the so called "upgrading" only improves the missile's capability to aim the target in the final stage. But its vulnerability to the air-defense network in mountain area is still there: as I said, flying too high and too slow.

Brahmos is not the only missile we have other options too.

It is the only missile can have the necessary accuracy.

If you can target Indian cities we will destroy Shanghai and Beijing.

Well, if you target Lhasa, I really don't think why can't Chinese target your cities.

 

[Kalki_2018]

There is no if this or that, if war starts it china is the target not tibet or uighurs.

 

[airtel]

No, India missile force doesn't have the necessary quality, quantity and training to carry on such scale of strike.

LULZ Says a Chinese

India has Enough quantity , quality and training to destroy Entire China ........and You know that very well .

we will prove that in actual war .

No, the so called "upgrading" only improves the missile's capability to aim the target in the final stage. But its vulnerability to the air-defense network in mountain area is still there: as I said, flying too high and too slow.

So DRDO /Russia shared all the capabilities with You ??

It is the only missile can have the necessary accuracy.

Indian Missiles are extreamly accurate and what is the need of that much accuracy ?? just fire 3-4 Missile ............the Missiles which will Miss the target Will Kill some Useless CCP members

Well, if you target Lhasa, I really don't think why can't Chinese target your cities.

You can target Indian Cities but Indian Population is distributed in all over India , 90% of indians Live in Villages & small cities ................we will just target Your Coastal cities with Nukes


First of all we will Nuke shanghai and then we will nuke Beijing and all the other Cities .


Tibet is not a Part of China so we will not Kill them ...........so lhasa will be the safest Place in Asia for civilians

 

[Khagesh]

Theek Hai.

But when the Indian side speaks of targeting Lhasa that does not mean killing Tibetans. So no point in this back and forth regarding Lhasa.

Lhasa is a major PLA base, communication and transportation node and long term strategic importance and hence a lucrative target. Coincidentally it is within range of Indian capabilities even if estimated highly conservatively. And also happens to be a place that PLA will find nearly impossible to defend against Indian attack.

http://www.vifindia.org/article/2015/september/18/china-s-focus-on-military-activities-in-tibet
http://www.idsa.in/jds/2_2_2008_TheTraintoLhasa_SArya

Units in and around Lhasa also played a role in the latest Doklam related military exercises by PLA.

https://www.thequint.com/india/2017/07/17/china-army-live-fire-drills-standoff-doklam

Separately, Tibet's mobile communication agency conducted a drill on 10 July in Lhasa – capital of Tibet – where members of the agency practiced setting up of a temporary mobile network to secure communications in an emergency.

 

[Chinmoy]

No, the so called "upgrading" only improves the missile's capability to aim the target in the final stage. But its vulnerability to the air-defense network in mountain area is still there: as I said, flying too high and too slow.

Mach 2.8 is too slow? Ok, lets agree on this, even then quote me one full proof AD system which could take out a cruise missile flying at Mach 2.8 at an altitude of 10km. With one missile one could be lucky, but what about a salvo?

 

[no smoking]

Mach 2.8 is too slow? Ok, lets agree on this, even then quote me one full proof AD system which could take out a cruise missile flying at Mach 2.8 at an altitude of 10km.

Oh, there are too many air-defence system can do this job, such as S-300, FD-2000, SM-2. All of them are able to intercept those tactic short-range ballistic missile between 20km-40km altitude. Do you really believe they can take out a 2.8M missile in 10km?

Besides, intercepting supersonic cruise missile has become an ordinary training for air-defence units. All big countries have their own supersonic target missile for training. It is really not a difficult job for them.

The real difficulty is the supersonic cruise missile flying at low altitude (10m-500m). That was the standard anti-ship tactic for Soviet navy. However, it is impossible for a supersonic cruise to do that in mountain area. That is why no one deploy supersonic missile to attack land targets except India.

With one missile one could be lucky, but what about a salvo?

Again, the salvo tactic works on the sea because the only air defence force is those destroyers in one direction. 36 missiles will overwhelm the computing capability of the system on the ships. On the land, however, you are facing the air-defence matrix. The threats come from every direction, under the command of central computer, enemy can decide which air defence unit take care which cruise missile. If it is missed, then get the next one ready. Of course some will get through and hit the target, but these are land based target, easier to replace and repair.

 

[Arihant]

Oh, there are too many air-defence system can do this job, such as S-300, FD-2000, SM-2. All of them are able to intercept those tactic short-range ballistic missile between 20km-40km altitude. Do you really believe they can take out a 2.8M missile in 10km?

Besides, intercepting supersonic cruise missile has become an ordinary training for air-defence units. All big countries have their own supersonic target missile for training. It is really not a difficult job for them.

The real difficulty is the supersonic cruise missile flying at low altitude (10m-500m). That was the standard anti-ship tactic for Soviet navy. However, it is impossible for a supersonic cruise to do that in mountain area. That is why no one deploy supersonic missile to attack land targets except India.




Again, the salvo tactic works on the sea because the only air defence force is those destroyers in one direction. 36 missiles will overwhelm the computing capability of the system on the ships. On the land, however, you are facing the air-defence matrix. The threats come from every direction, under the command of central computer, enemy can decide which air defence unit take care which cruise missile. If it is missed, then get the next one ready. Of course some will get through and hit the target, but these are land based target, easier to replace and repair.

Dear Weed Smoking.. Only Barak-8 is capable of stopping Brahmos. U can say brahmos is slow. But don't you know why this missile is called the best cruise missile, because it maintains Mach 2.8 speed through all its path, not for only terminal phase. That is why it have enough kinetic energy to cut even a warship in two parts. No air defence is capable of stopping a salvo of Brahmos. Only kinetic energy is enough to destroy targets, warhead is free with Brahmos.

 

[Vijyes]

All cruise missiles are interceptable. Supersonic or subsonic, both types of cruise missiles are still relatively slow. Mountainous areas can't be targeted with ballistic missiles and need only cruise missiles as the ballistic missiles can't maneuver the steep slopes to target people hiding behind it. Even nuclear bombs don't work well as the mountains shield it to a good extent. Mountain warfare is extremely difficult. Indian side of the himalayas is extremely mountainous while chinese side is plateau type. So, India can use brahmos or even ballistic missiles but china will find it difficult. Moreover, China population centre is within the confines of the great wall - 90% are within it and even then 60% of chinese are urban. Indian population is close to. Himalayas and 30% are urban.

China had several disadvantages while fighting in tibet -
1. Logistics problems
2. Unnecessary escalation risk of nuclear warfare and the 60% urban population posing as easy target
3. Hilly terrain of Indian side making it difficult for incursions into india while India can enter China at ease
4. Hilly terrain of India prevents missile strikes from being effective against India

India also has disadvantages that Chinese population is far away and hence there is no point raiding into China. And the chinese need to use small range missiles to target Indian population centre

However the balance is tilted in favour of India. Indian ballistic missiles have decent accuracy and are guided by Indian GPS. Agni-5 has accuracy of less than 50 metres which is a very good accuracy. Other missiles like prithvi etc have even better accuracy.

Overall, I think China is posturing rather than having any intention of fighting. China may have interest in Taiwan, Korea or Vietnam but tibet is completely barren without any resources and even devoid of agriculture land. Tibet is merely a strategic necessity to access Xinjiang rather than useful on its own. It may even be a waste of resources for china of not for Xinjiang

 

[Chinmoy]

Oh, there are too many air-defence system can do this job, such as S-300, FD-2000, SM-2. All of them are able to intercept those tactic short-range ballistic missile between 20km-40km altitude. Do you really believe they can take out a 2.8M missile in 10km?

Besides, intercepting supersonic cruise missile has become an ordinary training for air-defence units. All big countries have their own supersonic target missile for training. It is really not a difficult job for them.

The real difficulty is the supersonic cruise missile flying at low altitude (10m-500m). That was the standard anti-ship tactic for Soviet navy. However, it is impossible for a supersonic cruise to do that in mountain area. That is why no one deploy supersonic missile to attack land targets except India.




Again, the salvo tactic works on the sea because the only air defence force is those destroyers in one direction. 36 missiles will overwhelm the computing capability of the system on the ships. On the land, however, you are facing the air-defence matrix. The threats come from every direction, under the command of central computer, enemy can decide which air defence unit take care which cruise missile. If it is missed, then get the next one ready. Of course some will get through and hit the target, but these are land based target, easier to replace and repair.

Tell me which one of these systems have ever tackled a cruise missile? Leave alone Supersonic ones, count me any subsonic missile which has been intercepted by any SAM. SAM does work on principle of probability. All its calculations are based on probability of the position of the target at any given time. In case of intercepting any aircraft, it is same. Intercepting a missile makes it even harder. That's the reason why there is nothing like one shot one kill in terms of air defence.

You would be lucky with one brahmos, but with a salvo of it I would just say one thing............ Happy Turkey Shooting.

 

[no smoking]

Tell me which one of these systems have ever tackled a cruise missile? Leave alone Supersonic ones, count me any subsonic missile which has been intercepted by any SAM. SAM does work on principle of probability.

You still don’t get it, the strength of supersonic anti-ship cruise missile is its supersonic sea-skimming in the last 20 kilometres. In the past, the traditional ship radar, due to the limited range and, can’t tackle this kind of weapon before they get into the final stage. On the other hand, a supersonic missile has always been an easy target when it is flying in high altitude as long as your radar can track it. Think about this: all modern surface to air missiles have maximum speed over 4 Mach and over 20G load, if they have enough warning time, they will be able to catch any target slower than 4 Mach. When the cruise missile flying in 10km sky, the defence radar would detect them hundreds kilometres away, this give the defence system enough time to calculate the track and launch missile in advance.

And today, some systems are already capable of intercepting the supersonic cruise missile in the final stage:

http://www.naval-technology.com/new...ly-intercepts-supersonic-sea-skimming-missile

All its calculations are based on probability of the position of the target at any given time.


In case of intercepting any aircraft, it is same. Intercepting a missile makes it even harder. That's the reason why there is nothing like one shot one kill in terms of air defence.

Well, that is not right. Intercepting a ballistic missile is harder, but a supersonic cruise missile flying in 10km sky will be lot easier comparing aircraft. After all, modern jet can perform unexpected 8-9 manoeuvring in any seconds by the pilot while the cruise missile can only slightly manoeuvrer according the pre-set program.

 

[porky_kicker]

You still don’t get it, the strength of supersonic anti-ship cruise missile is its supersonic sea-skimming in the last 20 kilometres. In the past, the traditional ship radar, due to the limited range and, can’t tackle this kind of weapon before they get into the final stage. On the other hand, a supersonic missile has always been an easy target when it is flying in high altitude as long as your radar can track it. Think about this: all modern surface to air missiles have maximum speed over 4 Mach and over 20G load, if they have enough warning time, they will be able to catch any target slower than 4 Mach. When the cruise missile flying in 10km sky, the defence radar would detect them hundreds kilometres away, this give the defence system enough time to calculate the track and launch missile in advance.

And today, some systems are already capable of intercepting the supersonic cruise missile in the final stage:

http://www.naval-technology.com/new...ly-intercepts-supersonic-sea-skimming-missile




Well, that is not right. Intercepting a ballistic missile is harder, but a supersonic cruise missile flying in 10km sky will be lot easier comparing aircraft. After all, modern jet can perform unexpected 8-9 manoeuvring in any seconds by the pilot while the cruise missile can only slightly manoeuvrer according the pre-set program.

anyways what about the ECCM onboard supersonic missiles like brahmos

brahmos ECCM system can generate a electronic target image of itself to decoy incoming missiles.

and that is only one of the tricks

 

[Vijyes]

anyways what about the ECCM onboard supersonic missiles like brahmos

brahmos ECCM system can generate a electronic target image of itself to decoy incoming missiles.

and that is only one of the tricks

Don't say anything for God's sake. Brahmos travels at 2.8Mach. Many planes travel at 2.5Mach. All these planes also have high maneuverability. Despite all these, they can be intercepted. I don't see any reason why brahmos can't be intercepted. Ballistic missiles travel at 7+ Mach, sometimes even 24Mach in reentry phase. They are different.

Brahmos missiles have just 200km range in skimming flights. It is really not that effective.

 

[no smoking]

anyways what about the ECCM onboard supersonic missiles like brahmos

brahmos ECCM system can generate a electronic target image of itself to decoy incoming missiles.

and that is only one of the tricks

Don't know much about this part, but I don't think it is a problem.
Whatever electronic trick the missile can play, they are no match to the defense missile which is supported by multiple more powerful land base radar. If it is a new tech, the defense missile may be caught surprisingly for the first time. But once they find the trick, it won't work again.

 

[HarshBardhan]

Some news coming from Vietnam

VN Express International reports that Vietnam's government has confirmed it has taken delivery of a batch of BrahMos from India. However, details of deal not revealed yet.

The world's fastest anti-ship cruise missile will bolster the country's 'peaceful' defense policies.
Vietnam's government has confirmed it has taken delivery of a batch of short-range ramjet supersonic cruise missiles from India.

Foreign ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said at a press briefing on Thursday that Vietnam is developing defense cooperation with India to allow the country to pursue its defense policies.

“The arms purchase is in line with Vietnam’s peaceful national defense policies aimed at protecting the country,” Hang said.

She said the strategic comprehensive partnership between Vietnam and India is growing in various areas and contributing to peace, stability and development in the region and the world.

The BrahMos missile was developed by Russia's NPO Mashinostroeyenia and India’s Defense Research and Development Organization. It is the world’s fastest anti-ship cruise missile in operation, traveling at speeds of 3,400-3,700 kilometers per hour.

The three-ton missiles can be launched from submarines, ships, aircraft or land.

India has already supplied patrol vessels to Vietnam and has been providing military training, but the missiles are the first arms trade deal between the two countries.

Details of the value of the deal have not been revealed.

Vietnam is building up its military amid tensions in the disputed East Sea, which is known internationally as the South China Sea. The country has also ordered six Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines from Russia in a deal worth $2 billion. The latest arrived last January.

http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vi...se-of-cruise-missiles-from-india-3629191.html

 

[Sameer Chaudhary]

30 character00000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[Chinmoy]

You still don’t get it, the strength of supersonic anti-ship cruise missile is its supersonic sea-skimming in the last 20 kilometres. In the past, the traditional ship radar, due to the limited range and, can’t tackle this kind of weapon before they get into the final stage. On the other hand, a supersonic missile has always been an easy target when it is flying in high altitude as long as your radar can track it. Think about this: all modern surface to air missiles have maximum speed over 4 Mach and over 20G load, if they have enough warning time, they will be able to catch any target slower than 4 Mach. When the cruise missile flying in 10km sky, the defence radar would detect them hundreds kilometres away, this give the defence system enough time to calculate the track and launch missile in advance.

And today, some systems are already capable of intercepting the supersonic cruise missile in the final stage:

http://www.naval-technology.com/new...ly-intercepts-supersonic-sea-skimming-missile




Well, that is not right. Intercepting a ballistic missile is harder, but a supersonic cruise missile flying in 10km sky will be lot easier comparing aircraft. After all, modern jet can perform unexpected 8-9 manoeuvring in any seconds by the pilot while the cruise missile can only slightly manoeuvrer according the pre-set program.

You are missing out the whole point of tracking and targeting. As I have already said, tracking could be done by any ground based, on air or space based system. But targeting is whole different ball game.

Ballistic missiles does have a predefined flight path during the boost, mid phase and terminal phase. But even then its a pure game of probability and luck to intercept one. No ABM system can boost of even 95% accuracy success, leave alone 100. But then too we had to come up with MaRV and MIRV and decoys for ballistic missiles to tackle the ABM system. Now flight path of any cruise missile is predetermined and known to its operator only. With mid flight update it is mere guess game for tracking stations about what would be its next waypoint.

There was a reason when I said, "Happy Turkey Shooting" in one of my last post. The most effective defence system for any such weapon is CIWS. Even intercepting one with interceptor is plausible. But just imagine how you would have to do this by tail chasing it. But even CIWS or tail chasing one is good enough for a single or two targets. But with a salvo of a dozen approaching you, just imagine the overload situation your defence mission control computer would go through.

BTW, Coyote in 240kmph slower then BRAHMOS. Moreover the test has been done against a single target again, not against salvo of it.

 

[Vijyes]

You are missing out the whole point of tracking and targeting. As I have already said, tracking could be done by any ground based, on air or space based system. But targeting is whole different ball game.

Ballistic missiles does have a predefined flight path during the boost, mid phase and terminal phase. But even then its a pure game of probability and luck to intercept one. No ABM system can boost of even 95% accuracy success, leave alone 100. But then too we had to come up with MaRV and MIRV and decoys for ballistic missiles to tackle the ABM system. Now flight path of any cruise missile is predetermined and known to its operator only. With mid flight update it is mere guess game for tracking stations about what would be its next waypoint.

There was a reason when I said, "Happy Turkey Shooting" in one of my last post. The most effective defence system for any such weapon is CIWS. Even intercepting one with interceptor is plausible. But just imagine how you would have to do this by tail chasing it. But even CIWS or tail chasing one is good enough for a single or two targets. But with a salvo of a dozen approaching you, just imagine the overload situation your defence mission control computer would go through.

BTW, Coyote in 240kmph slower then BRAHMOS. Moreover the test has been done against a single target again, not against salvo of it.

If you have dozens of ballistic missiles, then the opponents will also have dozens of SAM. Generally 1:1 SAM will be enough for ballistic missiles with 90% hit probability. BARAK has 95% probability of kill per missile. Indian Akash has 88% kill ratio. If you are saying that you have dozens of launchers but opponents are dumb and only keep 1 launcher, you are mad. A single radar can track 100 targets and can attack 16 even in case of an jet aircraft AESA radars. Ground based radars have even better capacities.

Ballistic missiles are difficult to kill due to their speed. They can have boosters to boost for even 1 second in their flight path which can change their course to an extent large enough to avoid ABM missile hits

 

[Chinmoy]

If you have dozens of ballistic missiles, then the opponents will also have dozens of SAM. Generally 1:1 SAM will be enough for ballistic missiles with 90% hit probability. BARAK has 95% probability of kill per missile. Indian Akash has 88% kill ratio. If you are saying that you have dozens of launchers but opponents are dumb and only keep 1 launcher, you are mad. A single radar can track 100 targets and can attack 16 even in case of an jet aircraft AESA radars. Ground based radars have even better capacities.

Ballistic missiles are difficult to kill due to their speed. They can have boosters to boost for even 1 second in their flight path which can change their course to an extent large enough to avoid ABM missile hits

Do you have any idea what I said and what are you saying???