BrahMos Cruise Missile

StealthFlanker

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There are so many misinformation that i cant help but chime in
Mach 3 (2500-3000 km/hr) speed (which makes it very difficult to detect and track)

S-manoeuver just a few seconds before impact (which makes interception very difficult)
1- faster target are not harder to track and detect , by contrast they are much easier to detect due to doppler shift different
2- Terminal phase maneuver is hardly something that specific to Brahmos , even the early version of the Harpoon has that capability



There is a lot of rumor that the BrahMos is impossible to shoot down. This is mainly due to the fact that NATO missile defense systems were prepared to handle Mach 1-1.5 speed Anti-Ship missiles which Russia possessed during the Cold War. But after the Mach 2-3 speed Onyx/BrahMos was developed, it surprised the western world and it is unknown what specific measures have been taken to handle this supersonic threat.
Absolute nonsense , supersonic threat is nothing new , Kh-22 developed by soviet can reach speed up to mach 5 since 1962.
About intercepting of supersonic threat , US Navy has a bunch of supersonic decoys that they practice interception on such as MA-31 ( mach 3) , MQM-8 ( mach 2.5) , GQM-163 ( mach 4) , AQM-37C (mach 4) , hardly something new to them.






The US Navy uses the SM-2 as its standard long range SAM on its destroyers. It has a range of 90+ km and uses a semi-active homing radar seeker which means that the mechanically scanning illuminators on board the warships should provide them with guidance. This proves to be a handicap as a Burke carries 3 centrally mounted SPG-62 illuminators which will find it difficult to deal with a multi directional missile attack.
SM-2, SM-6 newest block has maximum range about 460 km , ESSM has range about 50 km , both SM-2 and ESSM use Interrupted Continuous Wave Illumination technology which mean the illuminator doesnt have to illuminated target all the way until impact , missiles can be guided by datalink and CW illuminators only used in final phase. SM-6 has active seeker so that enough said.



Normally, once the missile is detected at longer ranges if its following a high altitude profile, multiple SM-2 missiles are launched to counter the threat. 2-3 SAMs are fired against subsonic threats, so it is safe to assume that 4-5 SAMs will be fired at a single incoming BrahMos missile.
This is nothing more than hot air nonsense

Again, the SM-2 wasn’t designed to handle a missile flying at 3 times the speed of sound but designed to handle Soviet missiles flying at 1-1.5 times the speed of sound.
this is absolute BS , even ESSM was used to intercept target flying at mach 4 before (AQM-37) , SM-2 can be used to intercept theater ballistic missiles moving at around mach 8-10 , a target moving at mach 3 is nothing


Let us consider a scenario in which a Burke class destroyer escorting a carrier battle group (CBG) is faced with a swarm of 8 BrahMos/Yakhont Anti-Ship missiles. Once the missiles are detected by the AWACS at 150+ km from the ship, the usual procedure would be to direct fighter jets from a nearby carrier towards the missile to shoot it down. But in this case, the missile is traveling at 3 times the speed of sound. Fighter jets will have 1/3 the time to react when compared to facing subsonic missiles. Hence the chances of a successful shoot down by fighters is less. .
Ffs , who wrote this ?
whatever platfrom that carried the Brahmos will be detected by AWACs the moment it get over the horizon since we cant put Brahmos on stealth aircraft yet, so no , you cannot expect the missiles or the platform carry it to get within 150 km from the ship.
And ship will not have 1/3 time to react compared to subsonic missiles , you only take distance/speed into account , but reaction time depend alot on detection range. So what affect detection range ?

Firstly is the radar horizon .Because subsonic missiles can sea skimming at much lower altitude compared to supersonic one ( imagine how easy it would be to crash the missiles into the ocean if you flying too low ),the destroyer can detect them from much shorter distance
For example: Against SPY-1 radar height of about 17 meters above the sea

P-270 Moskit in full sea skimming mode fly at 20 meters above the sea thus the radar horizon is 35 km , Moskit reaches Mach 3 at a high altitude and its maximum low-altitude speed is M2.2 , so in sea skimming mode it take 47 seconds from detection until missiles hit
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/moskit.htm

P-500 BAZALT in full sea skimming mode fly at about > 10 meters above the sea thus the radar horizon is 30 km , P-500 reaches Mach 2 at high altitude , while low-altitude speed is Mach 1.5 so in sea skimming mode it take 59 seconds from detection until missiles hit
http://www.vectorsite.net/twcruz_7.html

P-700 GRANIT in full sea skimming mode fly at about > 10 meters above the sea thus the radar horizon is 30 km , P-700 reaches Mach 2.5 at high altitude , while low-altitude speed is Mach 1.6 so in sea skimming mode it take 55 seconds from detection until missiles hit
http://www.vectorsite.net/twcruz_7.html

also BrahMos according to their officials website can reach mach 3 , however cruise altitude is 15 km ( only at terminal phased it reduced to 10 meter) thus the radar horizon is 522 km so technically speaking , it will be detected right after launch , it may be able to follow a full sea skimming profile but not any better than P-700 in that aspect
http://www.brahmos.com/content.php?id=10&sid=10

AS-16 Kickback climbs to an altitude of about 40,000 m (130,000 ft) and then dives in on the target, accelerating to a speed of about Mach 5 ,so the radar horizon is 841 km
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ssia/as-16.htm

Kh-22 In low-altitude mode, it climbs to 12,000 m (39,000 ft) and makes a shallow dive at about Mach 3.5, making the final approach at an altitude under 500 m (1,600 ft) so the radar horizon is 468 km
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/as-4.htm

Subsonic missiles like NSM , RBS-15 in sea skimming mode can fly only 1 meter above water so the radar horizon is 21 km , with speed of mach 0.95 it takes 65 seconds from detection until missiles hit ( ignore stealth )

Using AWACS or fighters can eliminate radar horizon problem but there are others factor
Second factor that affect detection range is signature :

1-Subsonic antiship missiles have much smaller RCS than supersonic missiles , not only due to their smaller size , they also have an easier time using radar absorbing material and shaping as there is almost no requirement for heat resistance material. Radar will also have easier time pick out supersonic missiles from clutters due to significant dopper shift involved with high speed

2-Subsonic antiship missiles have much smaller thermal signature both in term of skin friction and engine heat , thermal sensor will detect supersonic missiles from much higher distance

3-supersonic anti-ship missiles use active radar seeker , which mean they will always show up on ELINT system , unlike subsonic missiles which can do a silent attack

BrahMos will be detected at about 25-30 km from the ship when it is in it’s sea-skimming terminal phase..
If the Brahmos climb to high altitude at the start , it will be detected by SPY-1 at that phase , Brahmos isn't a stealthy missile after all so low altitude at terminal phase only isnt enough
We have 4 SAMs targeting each BrahMos missile and the probability of interception is ‘theoretically’ 100%. Practically, the BrahMos may break through these defenses.
Given that Brahmos doesnt start maneuver until terminal phase , it is basically a non maneuver , non jamming target, PK of a single SAM would be closer to 80-90%. Practically there are decoys to fool those active radar guided Brahmos too


But there’s a big flaw in this if you haven’t noticed. Firing 24 ESSM takes 24 seconds, 4 ESSM will target 1 BrahMos, so 24 of these can target 6 BrahMos and by that time the last few ESSM have been fired, there are still 2 BrahMos missiles left untargeted and speeding towards the Burke. So what’s the flaw? Think ……….If 16 BrahMos missiles (the capacity of new gen Russian frigates and Indian destroyers) were fired instead of 8, the defense of the Burke would be saturated if it’s operating alone.
The Phalanx CIWS and Softkill countermeasures would probably manage to counter 2 more BrahMos, but then you have 6 remaining supersonic anti-ship missiles with 300 kg semi-armor piercing warheads ramming at full speed into a 9000 ton destroyer. Hence we can assume the saturation limit for a single Burke stands at 12 BrahMos missiles approaching simultaneously. So if it goes one-on-one with a Russian frigate or Indian destroyer carrying 16 BrahMos, it’s not returning home.
The big flaw is to assume that the Burke will not be returning fire , if you consider 2 destroyers facing off against each other without any third party support , their radar horizon would be the same. The moment Russian or Indian destroyer detect it , they will be detected themselves. Both SM-2 and ESSM are dual role missiles that can be used again both air and surface target , now the question is which one will reach target first , those SM-2 and ESSM or Brahmos ? given that SAM accelerate much quicker compared to antiship missiles.



. The exact value is not disclosed for obvious reasons, but considering a CBG will have 3 AEGIS equipped escorts in wartime, 48 fighters with 8 on Combat Air Patrol (CAP)and 2 E-2s will be airborne for providing Over The Horizon (OTH) radar coverage, the saturation limit for this CBG will be around 64 BrahMos missiles.
This estimation based on the assumption that SM-2 need constant CW illumination from start to finish , Burker class has no missiles with their own sensors , E-2 cant guide SM-2 , fighters cant guide missiles at different target at the same time. All of those assumptions are wrong

The target ship has around 5-10 seconds to react if it’s a supersonic AShM and around 20-30 seconds to react if it’s a subsonic AShM because the range of these SAMs is in the 10-15 km category. A volley of 8-12 point defense SAMs are usually fired in order to shoot down 2-3 incoming AShMs.
This assumes that time to react only depend on range to target , which is not true. Detect stealth anti-ship missiles are very hard even at close range





It has a max range of 3 km and an effective range of 1.5 km when dealing with low flying cruise missiles.
The reason for this is low , slow flying missiles are hard to detect in sea clutter. Neither are really true for Brahmos

It doesn’t end here, BrahMos performs an S-manoeuver in its final few km of flight. This makes it extremely difficult for Phalanx to get a lock on BrahMos. It will have less than 2 seconds to lock on to a maneuvering target flying at 3 times the speed of sound. It is practically impossible for the Phalanx to shoot down BrahMos
1- Brahmos isnt the only missiles with terminal phase maneuver , all anti ship have some forms of it
2- Higher speed , same G limit mean smaller turn rate. So if a subsonic and a supersonic antiship missiles both rated for same G limit ( which is unlikely due to weight different), the subsonic one will have much more erratic maneuver, there is no free lunch
 

Bahamut

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Given that Brahmos doesnt start maneuver until terminal phase , it is basically a non maneuver , non jamming target, PK of a single SAM would be closer to 80-90%. Practically there are decoys to fool those active radar guided Brahmos too
Sir no one know about what kind of CCM Brahmos use ,plus Brahmos get input from multiple sensor with planned optical sensor and off course data link .
Also the NG will have have RCS reduction and more sensor.
 

Chinmoy

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all they have to do is increase the fuel.. but wont it make the brahmos bigger ?? or different high combustion fuel can be used.. ?
Definitely it would lead to increase in mass and size if the current fuel is used. Either they have to come up with next gen fuel or would have to compensate with weight and size.
 

StealthFlanker

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Sir no one know about what kind of CCM Brahmos use ,plus Brahmos get input from multiple sensor with planned optical sensor and off course data link .
Also the NG will have have RCS reduction and more sensor.
Regardless of what kind of counter-counter measure that Brahmos use , an active RF sensor is always less stealthy than a IIR sensor, it will always alert the ship. In worst case scenario the jammer can always flood Brahmos seeker with gaussian noise.
Brahmos dont have any optical sensor as far as i know ,likely due to insufficient cooling for the amount of heat generated at low altitude supersonic cruising, and insufficient processing time in high clutter environment. Personally, i think Brahmos is a good missile but highly overrated among the public
 

Bahamut

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an active RF sensor is always less stealthy than a IIR sensor, it will always alert the ship. In worst case scenario the jammer can always flood Brahmos seeker with gaussian noise.
It can , but we can use data link to send corrected info to missile also even GaN DARFIM jammer find it hard radar that change frequency.Also against a ship there will be a salvo of minimum 5 missiles .We can also send the co ordinates of the target and then it go to a certain distance with its radar off and open it in the last 50 km for small correction.
Brahmos dont have any optical sensor as far as i know ,likely due to insufficient cooling for the amount of heat generated at low altitude supersonic cruising, and insufficient processing time in high clutter environment.
Army was interested in optical sensor and asked for it. It is planned for the NG which will also come anti Radiation seeker.
 

StealthFlanker

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even GaN DARFIM jammer find it hard radar that change frequency.
Yes that why i said gaussian noise , generally barrage noise jammer just flood the whole spectrum so frequency hopping is not a big issue , and jammers on ship are just too powerful

.Also against a ship there will be a salvo of minimum 5 missiles .
5 targets are like nothing for a ship radar , even fighters radar can track far higher number of targets

We can also send the co ordinates of the target and then it go to a certain distance with its radar off and open it in the last 50 km for small correction.
That how all missiles with active sensor work , nothing special . But with jamming , i would be surprise if Brahmos seeker can track the ship from further than 2 km
Army was interested in optical sensor and asked for it. It is planned for the NG
Can you provide some sources ? , i never heard about this I amm pretty sure Brahmos dont have optical seeker

which will also come anti Radiation seeker.
Anti radiostation seeker is possible , LRASM and JSM will also have those , the problem with home on jam system like that is they may home on the jamming decoy instead such as this one : http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/con...cuments/electronic-warfare/Nulka-Brochure.pdf
 

Bahamut

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Can you provide some sources ? , i never heard about this I amm pretty sure Brahmos dont have optical seeker
NPO Mash unveiled the Yakhont-M air launched supersonic ASCM at the MAKS 2003 air show, which shares elements with the Indo-Russian PJ10 BrahMos. Armed with multi sensor guidance to engage surface ships and ground targets at up to 300km, reconnaisance and target acquisition are to be provided by radar and electro-optical sensor equipped "ultra-light" (800kg) Kondor low earth orbit satellites.
 

uoftotaku

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NPO Mash unveiled the Yakhont-M air launched supersonic ASCM at the MAKS 2003 air show, which shares elements with the Indo-Russian PJ10 BrahMos. Armed with multi sensor guidance to engage surface ships and ground targets at up to 300km, reconnaisance and target acquisition are to be provided by radar and electro-optical sensor equipped "ultra-light" (800kg) Kondor low earth orbit satellites.
You are mis-reading the info here.

The EO sensor line refers not to the missile itself but the Kondor satellites which provide targeting info. The Yakhont itself is guided into terminal phase by the satellite at which point its onboard radar sensor takes over.

Any missile travelling at those speeds would need so real space age EO lens and computing to have any kind of discernible tactical picture
 

sorcerer

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Indonesia, Chile Interested In Buying India’s Air-Launched Version Of BrahMos Missile

Indonesia and Chile have shown interest in India’s air-launched version of BrahMos missile that will be tested in February next year.

“The center (Indian government) had given clearance for identifying markets for the missile. Chile and Indonesia had shown interest. Modalities were being worked out for marketing the missiles,” Raja Singh Thangadurai, Deputy Programme Director, BrahMos, Defence Research and Laboratory, (DRDL), was quoted as saying by the Hindu Thursday.

Thangadurai said that the design and development of the air-launched version of the missile from the SU-30 MKI fighter of the Indian Air Force had almost been completed.

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) had carried out modification of the fighter aircraft to carry the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile. Work had been taken up with the Sukhoi design bureau, HAL and the IAF for interface requirements and installation of BrahMos on Su-30 MKI fighter. The final stage preparation and fine-tuning of the air launch weapon system was in progress, he said.

Stating that the launcher modification had already been completed, Thangadurai said that dummy trial with instrumented drop from the SU-30 aircraft was carried out at Pokhran in Rajasthan a few weeks ago. The performance and the results were successful and highly encouraging. However, two more dummy drop trials would be carried out before launching the actual test. The dummy trials would be conducted in the weeks to come, Mr. Thangadurai said.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/17...nched_Version_Of_BrahMos_Missile#.WBHnaNV94ps
 

sorcerer

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BrahMos add on to Indian Air Force after March

The BrahMos aviation cruise missile will be inducted into the Indian Air Force after March next year, once detailed tests are over.


Over the past two years, the air version of the BrahMos cruise missile has been continuously in India on the Su-30MKI plane. Source: Boris Egorov/RIR

The Indian Air Force will get the Brahmos aviation cruise missile added to its armoury after March 2017, Praveen Pathak, official representative of BrahMos Aerospace told RIA Novosti on Wednesday.

Over the past two years, the air version of the BrahMos cruise missile (developed jointly by India and Russia) has been continuously in India on the Su-30MKI plane. The naval and land versions of the missile have already been added to the armoury of their respective wings in the Indian armed forces.

"Adopting the BrahMos air-based missile will be done after March 2017, when the missile test analysis with the Su-30MKI for marine and terrestrial targets is carried out," Pathak said at an arms exhibition Indo Defence 2016.

Pathak said the two-year cycle of tests, which included building a launch pad for missiles and the Su-30MKI, and bench tests on the ground will be completed in March, with the launch of the Su-30MKI missiles for ground targets.

At the same time, Pathak noted that for experts who conducted the tests, it was important to compensate for the vibration shocks that occurred.

"We were able to compensate for the vibration due to the new technologies that have been used by the BrahMos. These technologies are unique in the world", said the BrahMos representative.

https://in.rbth.com/economics/defen...add-on-to-indian-air-force-after-march_644743
 

Imaxxx

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MTCR benefit: India, Russia to develop 600-km range cruise missiles that can cover entire Pakistan


NEW DELHI: India's offensive capacity, especially against Pakistan, is set to take a huge step forward with New Delhi and Moscow deciding to jointly develop a new generation of Brahmos missiles with 600 km-plus range and an ability to hit protected targets with pinpoint accuracy.

This range enables these missiles to strike anywhere within Pakistan. That Russia can work with India to produce these missiles is thanks to New Delhi joining the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) in June this year.

MTCR guidelines prohibit its members from transfer, sale or joint production of missiles beyond 300-km range with countries outside the club.

Brahmos' current range is 300 km, which makes it difficult to hit targets deep inside Pakistan. India has ballistic missiles with longer range than the next generation Brahmos. But Brahmos' ability to take down specific targets, even well-protected ones, makes it a potential game changer in any conflict with Pakistan. Ballistic missiles are powered for the initial half of their flight path and they use gravity to complete their trajectory. But cruise missiles are powered throughout.


This makes a cruise missile like Brahmos similar to a pilot-less fighter jet that can be maneuvered in flight, programmed to attack targets from any angle and evade enemy missile defence systems. Brahmos can, for example, take down terror camps or hideouts even in mountain areas, where natural protection makes any other offensive action, bar crossing the border, ineffective.

The Indo-Russian agreement, signed during the bilateral summit at Goa, also includes development of missiles with smaller range that can be fired from submarines and aircraft. The deal was not made public at the summit — where other projects like sale of frigates and the S-400 air defence system purchase — were announced. Vladimir Putin told journalists from his country that the missile deal has also been signed. "We have also agreed to improve the Brahmos missile, which will be land, air and se ..

ET spoke with several senior Indian officials involved in negotiations. They confirmed that a pact to double the range of the Brahmos missile was finalised. These officials spoke on the condition they not be identified. They also said producing longer-range Brahmos will not be tough because no fundamental reworking is involved in increasing the range. India, post its MTCR membership, is also pursuing export options for its 300-km range Brahmos. Vietnam has expressed interest in the missile syste ..

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
Disappointing. By now Brahmos Aerospace should have learned and absorbed the propulsion tech. And developed the 600km or more range themselves.
 

Chinmoy

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Disappointing. By now Brahmos Aerospace should have learned and absorbed the propulsion tech. And developed the 600km or more range themselves.
It is easier said then done. Fuel used by Brahmos is Indian whereas the Engine is Russian. Now you don't need a upgraded RAMJET to increase the range, but what you need is larger amount of Fuel. But this in turn would lead to increase in size and as a result would effect the thrust and would compromise on the drag coefficient of the missile.
Another way to do it is to develop high efficient fuel. The best fuel for any RAMJET is always liquid fuel, but Brahmos makes use of solid fuel. Liquid fuel in Brahmos is simply illogical and out of question.
 

lcafanboy

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It is easier said then done. Fuel used by Brahmos is Indian whereas the Engine is Russian. Now you don't need a upgraded RAMJET to increase the range, but what you need is larger amount of Fuel. But this in turn would lead to increase in size and as a result would effect the thrust and would compromise on the drag coefficient of the missile.
Another way to do it is to develop high efficient fuel. The best fuel for any RAMJET is always liquid fuel, but Brahmos makes use of solid fuel. Liquid fuel in Brahmos is simply illogical and out of question.
First of all, Brahmos Missile (which is based on yakhonkt p800 oniks which is 800kms range missile) is not a 300kms range missile, it is already 600 to 750 kms range missile. Since India was not a MTCR member it was just claimed to be 290kms range missile. The Russians had inserted a Baffle (sepertor) in the fuel tank to comply with mtcr which was always removable by India to increase the amount of fuel it can carry and increase the range of missile to 750kms same as oniks.

Now after signing MTCR they are officially removing the baffle and increasing the range.
 

Chinmoy

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First of all, Brahmos Missile (which is based on yakhonkt p800 oniks which is 800kms range missile) is not a 300kms range missile, it is already 600 to 750 kms range missile. Since India was not a MTCR member it was just claimed to be 290kms range missile. The Russians had inserted a Baffle (sepertor) in the fuel tank to comply with mtcr which was always removable by India to increase the amount of fuel it can carry and increase the range of missile to 750kms same as oniks.

Now after signing MTCR they are officially removing the baffle and increasing the range.
First of all I would like to rectify myself for saying Brahmos to be solid fueled. Just like P-800 its too liquid fueled.

Now if you do a volumetric analysis of both the missiles, you would find that P-800 is always made to accumulate larger amount of fuel to give it a greater range. Now by using a seperator designers have not just cut the fuel storage, but effectively brought the whole weight of the missile. But interestingly enough, both P-800 and Brahmos weights the same 3 tons. It means if you remove the seperator and increase the fuel load, with the same overall volume its weight would increase drastically.

Then Brahmos would no longer be THE FASTEST SUPERSONIC CRUISE MISSILE, it would be just ONE OF THE SUPERSONIC CRUISE MISSILE. SO unless and until you want to compromise on the speed, its strength, you would have to develop a more efficient fuel for it to remain the same Brahmos with longer range.
 

republic_roi97

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Best of all, Pakistan is going to get a few of those for their destroyers and Land based systems. Its good that we invested in Barak 8.
Personally, I don't think that chinese systems would be very effective or possibly the best in world. I have found that most of the things that they develop is on the ideology of spray and pray or like quantity over quality. What they'd do is launch 20 of these for one ship and even if 15 are intercepted, 5 might still do the job.

But, I guess we should always be prepared for worst case.
 

HariPrasad-1

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First of all, Brahmos Missile (which is based on yakhonkt p800 oniks which is 800kms range missile) is not a 300kms range missile, it is already 600 to 750 kms range missile. Since India was not a MTCR member it was just claimed to be 290kms range missile. The Russians had inserted a Baffle (sepertor) in the fuel tank to comply with mtcr which was always removable by India to increase the amount of fuel it can carry and increase the range of missile to 750kms same as oniks.

Now after signing MTCR they are officially removing the baffle and increasing the range.
Brahmos travels faster than yakhont so drag may be high and it is likely that some range may have been compromised for speed. Now it is revealed that mare software change will require to boost the range to 600 km. So we may reasonably assume that range shall be minimum 600 KM if not more.
 

HariPrasad-1

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I listen to a video comparing Indian and Chinese navy. It praised Brahmos a lot and added further that when Brahmos 2 will come in, it will be impossible to intercept it with even laser. Chinese navy shall have no option but to surrender.
 

Chinmoy

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Personally, I don't think that chinese systems would be very effective or possibly the best in world. I have found that most of the things that they develop is on the ideology of spray and pray or like quantity over quality. What they'd do is launch 20 of these for one ship and even if 15 are intercepted, 5 might still do the job.

But, I guess we should always be prepared for worst case.
Actually this is the very basic concept behind any supersonic cruise missile. It is same for Brahmos too. A salvo of Brahmos is more effective then a solo shoot.

High speed projectiles are used in numbers to saturate your defence system.
 

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