Beijing's Raptor Knockoff

[W.G.Ewald]

Beijing's Raptor Knockoff | Washington Free Beacon

American intelligence agencies recently obtained new information on China's second new stealth fighter-bomber revealed on the Internet in the past two years, according to U.S. officials.

The new jet, dubbed the F-60, is a fifth-generation warplane; a prototype was disclosed in photographs posted on two Chinese military affairs websites beginning June 21.

Officials familiar with intelligence reports said the shape and design of the F-60 appears similar to the U.S. Air Force's F-22 Raptor, the U.S. military's most advanced stealth fighter, although it is smaller in size.

The similarities are raising concerns in counterintelligence circles that China obtained design details for its new jet from the F-22 through espionage or cyber-spying, as occurred with the Chinese compromise of F-35 data by suspected intelligence hackers several years ago.

A Defense Intelligence Agency spokeswoman declined to comment on the new Chinese stealth jet.

 

[Ray]

China seem to make industrial espionage a fine art!

 

[Bhadra]

China seem to make industrial espionage a fine art!

Who has stopped India?

 

[s002wjh]

Beijing's Raptor Knockoff | Washington Free Beacon

there are quite a bit different between these two. the main wing for chinese almost like delta wing not diamond wing. also there are plenty Hi-def pic of f22 online. just because it has 2 wings, and look a bit similar to f22 does not mean its same design or copy. there are plenty things under the hood of f22 that make it what f22 it is today.

 

[p2prada]

there are quite a bit different between these two. the main wing for chinese almost like delta wing not diamond wing. also there are plenty Hi-def pic of f22 online. just because it has 2 wings, and look a bit similar to f22 does not mean its same design or copy. there are plenty things under the hood of f22 that make it what f22 it is today.

YF-22 is a delta wing. FB-22 was a delta wing as well.

You haven't seen the kind of models the F-22 has evolved from, have you?

 

[J20!]

YF-22 is a delta wing. FB-22 was a delta wing as well.

You haven't seen the kind of models the F-22 has evolved from, have you?

FB-22 is a tail-less delta design, and is much larger than SAC's F60 design. I don't see how you could say one could be a copy of the other.

And second, If this:

Is a knock-off of this:

then the F16 is a derivative of the MiG 29.

Don't forget that the Americans called the PAF-FA "Raptor-ski" when it first flew.

 

[Armand2REP]

It is a static test full scale model.

 

[J20!]

China seem to make industrial espionage a fine art!

Then what's this?
The pinnacle of non-conformity?

 

[maomao]

^^^^^^^ That does not look like a raptor!

Even a kid can tell you that the wings, engine, air-intake, cockpit et al....looks significantly different.....which means the basic design philosophy is different! How the hell is this design pinnacle of non-conformity?

P.S: Someone may say it looks like FGFA!

 

[J20!]

How the hell is this design pinnacle of non-conformity?

Sarcasm...

 

[p2prada]

FB-22 is a tail-less delta design, and is much larger than SAC's F60 design. I don't see how you could say one could be a copy of the other.

The article does say the F-60 is a smaller copy of the F-22.

And second, If this:

Is a knock-off of this:

Try comparing to this picture:

Notice the similarity.

I don't believe in this Copy story. We know the airframe of both J-20 and F-60 was derived from existing designs. They don't have to be copies at all. It is obvious the avionics and sub systems will be entirely different anyway.

It is just that China does not have a pre-existing aerospace industry and the newest designs reflect foreign designs while the PAKFA is a cousin of the Su-27 and the F-22 is close to the F-15. I think you get my point. When I showed the first picture of PAKFA to a friend of mine who is a tech officer from RAF, he pointed out that the "competitors" like to imitate western designs. He also pointed out the PAKFA was a brilliant design, but that's going off topic.

Then what's this?
The pinnacle of non-conformity?

Woe be us if we are expected to fly that line diagram. How about waiting for something real to come out, like actual wind tunnel models or even grainy pics of the actual model? The last wind tunnel model wasn't anything like existing designs and the one before that either.

First AMCA model to be displayed:

More of a strike fighter design looking at the wing span and sweep.

Second model:

More of an all rounder like the F-60. So, you see we merely need to wait for more info before jumping the gun. However the wind design is different from existing designs. More close to Mig-29s leading edge than F-22s.

Compare to LCA's wind tunnel model:

or PAKFA's

So, you see why even wind tunnel models are not enough.

 

[s002wjh]

YF-22 is a delta wing. FB-22 was a delta wing as well.

You haven't seen the kind of models the F-22 has evolved from, have you?

right. even a kid can tell you there are difference in apperance between f22/f60. let along the internal component difference. and you are compare some toy model vs the actuall f22. right now there isn't even an actuall pic of f60.

 

[maomao]

Sarcasm...

I understand you tried sarcasm! However, it came out as a straight edge query/question, which means it was never meant to be sarcasm, as your thought was based on a false assertion!

 

[Predator]

how much is the cost and when will wal-mart start selling these?

are there any special offers for diwali and christmas?

IAF should start procuring from china.

 

[drkrn]

Who has stopped India?

values, morals and reputation

 

[asianobserve]

values, morals and reputation

Pride. The most precious commodity of all...

 

[GromHellscream]

Call it a twin-engined F35 will be more persuasive. :thumb:

 

[AprilLyrics]

this thread showed us that American's intelligence service admits j21's existence.
no matter J21 can challenge F35 or not,it shows the ability of china' s avaition industry.yet we also have problems.our ws10 is not even comparable with M88.and we cant just put WS10 into J21 'cause WS18s size does not fit it.engine is still a heart disease of china's industry.from warships to aircrafts.

 

[Armand2REP]

this thread showed us that American's intelligence service admits j21's existence.

Doesn't sound like they admit anything...

A Defense Intelligence Agency spokeswoman declined to comment on the new Chinese stealth jet.

 

[Koovie]

Haha xD. Now DFI got a self proclaimed "Paki" expert and a French "Chini" Expert?! lol

OT: How long will it take to introduce it if its accepted? And why would China need 2 different Fighters? Or are J20 and J21 meant for two different roles, eg. air superiority and ground attack?