Balochistan Freedom Movement gets a voice on DFI

Status
Not open for further replies.

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
Yusuf - you think that the leaders of the so-called Baloch "nationals" have never ever been paid? You got proof for that? Name one outfit that is not headed by a nawab who does receive royalty for Balochistan's resources. Every single one of them pockets it, transfers it to their foreign account - when was the last time a common tribesmen benefitted from them?
May be i dont know. Thats what this section is for. Let us get opinion from all quarters. I sure hope the Baluchi Nationalists will see this section and come across and post their views. What we have is open source media fed. May be the ones on the ground will have something for us.. Like is said, time will tell.
 

Elmo

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
66
Likes
17
Today's Baluchistan Independence movement is on the cusp of being spearheaded by the middle class Baluch not the Sardars. The small Sardars are bought by your government. Its the bigger Sardars that stand up to you.

Those middle class Baluch freedom fighters have scared the living daylights out of Pakistan, no wonder there are hundreds of disappearances, and killings of people opposed to Pakistan and the Sardars you have bought.

"While in the Musharraf era, the focus of the establishment was to eliminate patriots from the Baloch tribal elite such as Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti, the current strategy has shifted to the destruction of the middle strata leadership to weaken the grassroots connections and Baloch intelligentsia."- Senator Sanaullah Baloch
What middle class?

Whatever Baloch middle class is there, lives in Karachi.
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
What middle class?

Whatever Baloch middle class is there, lives in Karachi.
Cyril Almeida begs to differ with you.

"While the latest armed insurgency may be relatively small, it has given rise to a new phenomenon: the educated, middle-class, non-tribal insurgent."

"Forming the core of the BLF, this new breed of insurgent is epitomised by Dr Allah Nazar."

"But those hard-line views appear to have gained traction with a number of degree-holding Baloch men. Tarin, the journalist who interviewed Nazar last summer, claims that of the fighters who were with Nazar, "many were doctors and engineers".

"And with the state's response to separatist sentiment still mired in lethality, the potential for more educated, middle-class, non-tribal Baloch men to embrace violence would appear to be high."

A weaker insurgency, but with new contours | Newspaper | DAWN.COM
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
People, this is announcement thread. Please post in relevant threads or make new ones in the Baluchistan sub forum.
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
People, this is announcement thread. Please post in relevant threads or make new ones in the Baluchistan sub forum.
No problem you can move this thread to members corner, and make a fresh announcement.
 

Tronic

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
1,915
Likes
1,282
Guys, why do we keep constantly referring to them here as "Baluchistan"? Its an old, British, extinct way of spelling. It is Balochistan, and the spelling should be corrected so that when people are searching for it, the relevant threads prop up! I had earlier asked to rename an earlier thread with the same spelling fallacy, and now he have a whole section. If we wish people to be directed to the right place, than we should spell it as it is widely spelled now, i.e. Balochistan. Not how the British used to spell it.

Its like opening a thread on Jalandhar, but spelling it like the British, Jullundur, and expecting people interested in Jalandhar to be able to find it. (For the lack of a better example).
 

A.V.

New Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
6,503
Likes
1,157
Tronic thanks a lot the correction will be done in a while
 

Awesome

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
186
Likes
24
The frailty in you position is quite evident. You don't want an improvement in the condition of Balochistan - just direct freedom - an obvious child's tantrum response to Kashmir.

Anybody who digs a little deep into the issue will see that the liberation fighters are all feudal lords and own the people who live on their lands and the entire fight is about taking the power out of the hands of the feudal lords and giving it to the people.
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
I am sorry we forgot to take your permission in what would be ok to start here on DFI. We will take your advice next time to find out what is a freedom movement and what is terrorism sponsored by state.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
The frailty in you position is quite evident. You don't want an improvement in the condition of Balochistan - just direct freedom - an obvious child's tantrum response to Kashmir.

Anybody who digs a little deep into the issue will see that the liberation fighters are all feudal lords and own the people who live on their lands and the entire fight is about taking the power out of the hands of the feudal lords and giving it to the people.
Have you considered a simpler option? Leave them alone, along with their oil? ;)
 

Awesome

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
186
Likes
24
I am sorry we forgot to take your permission in what would be ok to start here on DFI. We will take your advice next time to find out what is a freedom movement and what is terrorism sponsored by state.
Its silly how as an institution you guys are dedicated to take pangay with Pakistan :D
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
The frailty in you position is quite evident. You don't want an improvement in the condition of Balochistan - just direct freedom - an obvious child's tantrum response to Kashmir.

Anybody who digs a little deep into the issue will see that the liberation fighters are all feudal lords and own the people who live on their lands and the entire fight is about taking the power out of the hands of the feudal lords and giving it to the people.
In Kashmir, the Hurriyat leaders are all feudal lords or spiritual heads who have made money and property through manipulating religion as religious leaders are wont to do.

One would be really surprised if movements of reckoning can be launched and sustained by the impoverished.

Even the use of piety and religion is all about Power and very little about religion.

Your Taliban is an ideal example. Why are they attacking Muslims in Pakistan? Are the Muslims of Pakistan fraudulent in their belief in Islam and Allah and the Taliban alone are the real religious Joes? No sir, it is all about Power.

What is the historical fight between the Shias and Sunnis when they have the same Prophet and believe in the same Koran about?

Again, it is the issue of Power!

To be sure, Islam is the only religion where adherents believe in their religious scriptures with a zeal which no other religion can match!

Every religion has kept pace with the times and have evolved. Islam also evolved till the 10th Century when Ijtihad was in vogue.

But after that it was discontinued.

For those who do not know what ijtihad is it is the process of making of a decision in Islamic law (sharia) by personal effort (jihad), independently of any school (madhhab) of jurisprudence (fiqh) as opposed to taqlid, copying or obeying without question has been discontinued in Sunni Islam since the 10th Century since to be valid and accepted it has to be rooted in the Qur'an and the hadith and it is required that no established doctrine rules the case. This is no longer feasible since there is no consensus that there is any mujtahid i.e. an Islamic scholar and who is competent to interpret sharia by ijtihad.(or interpretation) of the Koran.

Further, a mujtahid is someone qualified to exercise ijtihad, which literally means striving and technically means juridical endeavour and competence to infer expert legal rulings from foundational proofs within or without a particular school of law.

A mujtahid mutlaq or "absolute mujtahid" is one that attained the rank of the Four Imams Abu Hanifa, Malik, al-Shafi`i, and Ahmad in knowledge of Arabic, qualification to apply legal reasoning, draw analogies, and infer rulings from the evidence independently of the methodology and findings of the Sunni Schools, through his own linguistic and juridical perspicuity and extensive knowledge of the texts.

There is no mujtahid mutlaq today nor even a claimant to that title.

Therefore, while there is a desire to be in line with the times, yet the radicals confuse the issues, circumvent issue cleverly and slyly and pretend to be the flag bearers of 'true' Islam and none dare challenge them since they invoke the name of Allah at will as also have no hesitation in killing those who challenge their power.

Such people are also those who are leading movements and they also have adequate funds given by rich Donors and by many honest believers who are fooled by these radicals that they are fighting for the cause of the religion!

So, Asim, it all boil down to Power!!

And since Pakistan is in a turmoil with all types of people manoeuvring for power, be they politicians, the Army, the Mullah, the common man is totally confused and worried about their lives and want to be away from such a chaotic scene.

Hence sub- nationalism like the Balochs, Shia of Northern Area, the Saraiki movement, Jiyo Sindh etc are taking root.

And that also is an issue of Power!
 
Last edited:

Awesome

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
186
Likes
24
Have you considered a simpler option? Leave them alone, along with their oil? ;)
We did and thats where the real crime of Pakistani leaders lie. From 1947 to 2003 this is what Pakistanis did with the Baloch. For example a road has to be built. It'll cost USD100,000. The Baloch feudal lord comes to the government says I'll get it done in USD 50,000. But you got to pay me USD 25,000. Deal done. The road gets built all crap, the same feudal lord blames the government, hiding the facts of his own involvement in corruption too.

This all changed with Musharraf.

He didn't pay the feudal lords squat. So they turned violent. Musharraf incidentally got the most work done in Balochistan too.
 

hit&run

United States of Hindu Empire
Mod
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
14,104
Likes
63,371
Its silly how as an institution you guys are dedicated to take pangay with Pakistan :D
Good Point but with threatening tone.

However their is nothing we Indians feels about Pakistan to be friend with. The same goes with any Pakistani who have the same feeling. We are going to spoil the taste of mouths on all possible occasion. Animosity is not a one way street one must have guts to digest 'Dusmandari'.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
We did and thats where the real crime of Pakistani leaders lie. From 1947 to 2003 this is what Pakistanis did with the Baloch. For example a road has to be built. It'll cost USD100,000. The Baloch feudal lord comes to the government says I'll get it done in USD 50,000. But you got to pay me USD 25,000. Deal done. The road gets built all crap, the same feudal lord blames the government, hiding the facts of his own involvement in corruption too.

This all changed with Musharraf.

He didn't pay the feudal lords squat. So they turned violent. Musharraf incidentally got the most work done in Balochistan too.
Well, still, leave them alone. I am personally opposed to feudal systems, anywhere. However, let the poor Baloch rise up and kick their overlords in their posteriors and setup a parliament or shura. If an external force enters to 'sort things out,' it will obviously look bad.

The same thing happened with Soviet-Afghan cooperation and later when Soviet Army entered Afghanistan to help the Afghan Army fight the mujahideen. People ignored the bad side of the Mujahideens, along with the development of Afghanistan done by USSR, and instead saw it as an invasion, which was not an invasion at all.

Said that, why not let the Baloch lords control their oil? Assuming they are corrupt, the common Baloch will rise up and revolt against their own lords. In fact, if that was true, it would be easy for Islamabad to arm them as insurgents (Pakistan has decades of experience in this :)). Why did that not happen? Something is missing in your justification.
 

Tronic

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
1,915
Likes
1,282
The frailty in you position is quite evident. You don't want an improvement in the condition of Balochistan - just direct freedom - an obvious child's tantrum response to Kashmir.

Anybody who digs a little deep into the issue will see that the liberation fighters are all feudal lords and own the people who live on their lands and the entire fight is about taking the power out of the hands of the feudal lords and giving it to the people.
Your whole country is run by feudal lords. Or the army. So whats your point? First abolish the Zamindari system in Pakistan, than talk.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
We did and thats where the real crime of Pakistani leaders lie. From 1947 to 2003 this is what Pakistanis did with the Baloch. For example a road has to be built. It'll cost USD100,000. The Baloch feudal lord comes to the government says I'll get it done in USD 50,000. But you got to pay me USD 25,000. Deal done. The road gets built all crap, the same feudal lord blames the government, hiding the facts of his own involvement in corruption too.

This all changed with Musharraf.

He didn't pay the feudal lords squat. So they turned violent. Musharraf incidentally got the most work done in Balochistan too.
Are you sure that is the reason?

Genesis of the Baloch-Islamabad conflict

—Sana Baloch

Unfortunately, Islamabad's dirty policies are not just confined to exploiting Baloch wealth but the establishment is also in constant efforts to marginalise and upset the very liberal and social fabric of Baloch society

Balochistan's contribution to the country is Himalayan. However, Balochistan's immeasurable natural wealth and strategic significance turned into a curse rather than a blessing for the Baloch people.

The gravity of Baloch tribulations is deep-rooted, extending behind the minds of the political parties and educated youths to the masses that are experiencing discrimination, oppression and injustices in their everyday life.

Each region, town and village has its own story of neglect, underdevelopment and exploitation. Start from the Baloch coast that hosts Pakistan's three modern but devoid of the Baloch naval facilities including Jinnah Naval base at Ormara. Chaghai and Kharan, strategically significant regions, where the nuclear test was conducted and copper and gold are being mined, to Lasbela, an industrial town (for Karachiites) and where Pakistan Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (SUPARCO) facilities are located, to Dera Bugti known for its high quality gas production since 1953, to Quetta and Bolan where coal is being mined — and you will be confronted with a miserable social and economic state of affairs.

However, all these areas have sophisticated military, paramilitary and naval facilities but none of them have modern education, health, electricity, gas or opportunities of livelihood.

Fuelling the national economy for years and helping save billions of dollars worth of foreign exchange in terms of energy import, Balochistan's 97 percent population lives without gas facility, 78 percent without electricity, and 62 percent without safe drinking water. Balochistan has just 3.4 percent of gas consumers, as compared to 64 percent of Punjab alone, which produces only 4.75 percent of natural gas.

Balochistan being the major coal producing province is deprived of its benefits. During the 1960s, when Lahore was in West Pakistan, 98 percent coalmines of the province were allotted to people having no affiliation with the province. Today the local labourers in these 'black-gold' regions live without water, electricity, education and a health system. However, Sheikhs and Parachas are immensely benefitting from the wealth generated by the Baloch coal.

The MoU signed by Islamabad with a Chinese company regarding Saindak Copper-Gold Project is a classic confirmation of the abuse of Baloch wealth and discrimination. Islamabad and the Chinese company are taking 50 and 48 percent respectively and leaving only two percent profit for Balochistan. Besides this mega exploitation, the Saindak project is a no-man's land for local Baloch youth and guarded by non-Baloch Frontier Corps (FC). Chaghai, the gold producing region, is the poorest of the poor.

Countless MoUs of such exploitative nature are inked with foreign and local companies to insistently exploit Baloch resources. These include the Duddar Lead-Zinc Project and the Reko Diq copper-gold project. Oil and gas exploration licenses are given without taking account of Baloch needs and demands.

Islamabad's desire to entirely control and effusively exploit Balochistan's strategic land, energy resources, and economic benefits without Baloch will, desire and legitimate participation are the raison d'être behind mounting tension and mistrust between the Baloch and Islamabad

Unfortunately, Islamabad's dirty policies are not just confined to exploiting Baloch wealth but the establishment is also in constant efforts to marginalise and upset the very liberal and social fabric of Baloch society by supporting religious parties and co-opting gluttonous tribal and drug barons, which is part of the policy to retain its unquestioning control on Balochistan's affairs.

Lacking political vision and a democratic culture, Islamabad's super-establishment is governing Balochistan through a system known as 'control'. Control, a suppressive system, is a set of mechanisms used in multi-ethnic states by the dominant ethnic groups to contain and keep its control on dissident ethnic minorities, plunder their wealth, destroying their culture and creating mass fear through disappearances, kill and dump policies and strapping presence of military and paramilitary forces.

Control is based on a rogue approach that one ethnic group takes over the state, imposes its culture on society, allocates to itself the lion's share of resources and takes various measures, including violent means (military operations) to prevent the non-dominant group from organising politically.

Control works through three interrelated mechanisms: a) Divide and rule: internally creating rifts and division among the non-dominant groups; b) economic dependence: making them permanently dependent for their livelihood on the dominant group and central government; c) Co-option: involving sections of the non-dominant elite like greedy tribal chiefs, feudal, drug tycoons, corrupt intellectuals and politicians through partial dispensation of benefits and favours.

The military's fresh, unwarranted and indiscriminate crackdown against moderate Baloch nationalists, intellectuals, students, poets, anti-establishment tribal elders, businessman and civilians is a reflection of the 'zero tolerance' policy against the ethnic Baloch people.

All glitzy mega-projects and control developments launched in Balochistan, including those for gas development, coalmining, Gwadar Port, Mirani Dam, coastal highway, cantonments, and the extraction of copper and gold deposits do not envisage any participation or direct benefit to the people and the province.

An unemployed Baloch feels more depressed and exploited when an unskilled soldier on their soil is brought and employed from another province to fill the position that is legally, naturally and constitutionally the right of a local Baloch youth.

The province is of strategic importance and shares long borders with Iran and Afghanistan and a 1,700-kilometre-long coastline. But border and coastal security is 100 percent controlled by non-Baloch paramilitary forces. Around 70,000 jobs in the FC, Coast Guard, police, maritime security and the Anti-Narcotics Force are occupied by non-locals, which leave thousands of qualified Baloch youths unemployed.

Baloch bitterness by all means is genuine and the continued plunder of Balochistan's natural resources and its economic and political marginalisation and militarisation are the major causes of mounting tension between the Baloch and Islamabad. Political instability is on the rise.

Islamabad's reliance on brute force may help the central government to create short-term cosmetic calm but unrest and frustration will further lead to growing mistrust between the Baloch and Islamabad.

Though physically superior, Islamabad has mock control over Balochistan, but emotionally and morally Islamabad seems terribly defeated in Balochistan. The gruesome policy of kill and dump of Baloch political activists has resulted in a permanent fracture in Baloch-Islamabad relations.

No doubt, Balochistan's attractive and rich landscape, strategic coastline, sizeable territory and its location is very central to the establishment's strategic vision; however, in the rapidly changing geo-political scenario, overlooking the genuine concerns of the Baloch and the feelings of the people of the province will result in irreparable loss to the establishment.

The writer is a Baloch leader and former Senator who resigned from the Senate of Pakistan in protest against Islamabad's oppressive policies towards the Baloch people. He can be reached at [email protected]
Genesis of the Baloch-Islamabad conflict « Therearenosunglasses’s Weblog
I(S the above incorrect?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top