Anti-nuke Obama won't allow India to expand weapons program

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by LETHALFORCE, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Anti-nuke Obama won't allow India to expand weapons program - US - World - The Times of India

    Anti-nuke Obama won't allow India to expand weapons program



    WASHINGTON: Just hours before the Nobel Committee announced the Peace award for Barack Obama citing his

    work in nuclear weapons elimination,
    the American President transmitted to the US Congress a letter which in effect
    promised that his administration was working with other countries not to support enhancement of India’s nuclear weapons program.

    Such a Presidential letter, or ''certification'' is required every six months under section 204 of the US-India Civilian Nuclear Cooperation Act, but Obama’s punctilious reporting to the Congress of the US meeting its obligation is among the factors that mark him out to be a staunch anti-nuclear weapons advocate.

    Section 204 (a) of what the Obama White House formally calls the ''US-India Nuclear Cooperation Approval and Nonproliferation Enhancement Act'' requires the U.S President to certify to Congress that ''it is the policy of the U.S to work with members of the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), individually and collectively, to agree to further restrict the transfers of equipment and technology related to the enrichment of uranium and reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel'' to India.

    (Section B of the act says the President ''shall seek to achieve, by the earliest possible date, either within the NSG or with relevant NSG Participating Governments, the adoption of principles, reporting, and exchanges of information as may be appropriate to assure peaceful use and accounting of by-product material.'')


    Distilled from the legalese is the commitment that the US — and the NSG — will not allow India to in any way enhance its weapons-making capability riding on the civilian nuclear deal.

    While some Indian critics expect Obama to be a thorn in the prospects of a muscularly nuclear India, the fact is as a senator Obama voted for the US-India nuclear deal — which implicitly recognizes India as a nuclear weapons power. Since then, as President, he has not questioned India’s status as a nuclear weapons power.

    But working toward abolishing nuclear weapons seems to be an article of faith with him, although he concedes that it may not be accomplished in his lifetime.

    ''We cannot tolerate a world in which nuclear weapons spread to more nations and in which the terror of a nuclear holocaust endangers more people. And that's why we've begun to take concrete steps to pursue a world without nuclear weapons, because all nations have the right to pursue peaceful nuclear power, but all nations have the responsibility to demonstrate their peaceful intentions,'' Obama said after the Nobel award, echoing remarks he has made frequently in the past, starting with his landmark address in Prague last year.

    That speech appears to have impressed the Nobel grandees. In its statement, the Nobel committee said it ''attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.''

    Obama though is conscious of his limitations in carrying through his vision both in the face of geo-political complexities and a hard-line, militaristic, entrenched domestic constituency that believes ardently in a tough nuclear posture.

    ''Some of the work confronting us will not be completed during my presidency. Some, like the elimination of nuclear weapons, may not be completed in my lifetime,'' Obama said post-award. ''But I know these challenges can be met so long as it's recognized that they will not be met by one person or one nation alone.''
     
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  3. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    It is my opinion that India can develop nuclear weapons technology at her leisure. During the Cold War, though China was not an explicit ally of the United States, it was understood that China was covered by the US nuclear umbrella. China did not develop a thermonuclear weapon until 1967. It also took more years to miniaturize the warhead and to develop the delivery vehicles (i.e. missile or bomb). For roughly two decades during the 1950s and 1960s, China was defenseless against a Soviet nuclear attack. Yet, the Soviet Union did not launch an invasion of China. The only conclusion that I can reach is that the aggressive Soviet Empire did not attack China due to an implicit American nuclear umbrella. I don't believe that the Soviets refrained from an excellent opportunity to expand and attack because they were nice.

    Analogously, I believe that India is already under an implicit American nuclear umbrella. America is the world's superpower and she has decided that borders don't move. Not only does America have nuclear weapons that are comparable in number to Russia, American weapons are known to be reliable. See Lockheed Martin-Built Trident Achieves Record 122 Successful Test Launches In A Row

    The world and India have nothing to worry about during Pax Americana (Latin: "American Peace"). See Pax Americana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Since 1945, there has been no significant border changes from war. The situation is unlikely to change in the future while America remains a military superpower.
     
  4. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    I don't agree on both counts. Firstly If China was under US umbrella against the Russians why did they pursue nuclear weapons? Japan is under the US nuclear umbrella and they have absolutely no intentions of pursuing a nuclear weapons program even with 2 nuclear neighbors. Chinese nuclear program has also fueled a nuclear arms race in South Asia. If Chinese were also under US nuclear program they would not be helping other nations in their nuclear(weapons) programs two that clearly stand out are Iran and Pakistan. Secondly if India was under the US nuclear umbrella we would not be pursuing a nuclear weapons program as aggressively as we have been or put a resistance to testing clauses like we did before signing the US nuclear deal we would be signatories to the NPT,CTBT and FMCT. Also USA would not be indirectly funding the pakistani nuclear program. This is a little too far out to believe martian.
     
  5. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    After more research, I concede that China developed nuclear weapons as a matter of survival.

    "During the Cold War, the explicit threat of nuclear warfare to force an opponent to perform an action was rare in that most nations were allies of either the Soviet Union or the United States.

    The United States issued several nuclear threats against the People's Republic of China in the 1950s to force the evacuation of outlying islands and the cessation of attacks against Quemoy and Matsu, part of Republic of China.[1]

    Recently declassified documents from the National Archives (UK) indicate that the United Kingdom threatened China with nuclear retaliation in 1961 in the case of a military reclamation of Hong Kong by China. This threat was backed up by the United States[2].

    The unwillingness of the Soviet Union to respond to these threats on China's behalf was one of the major factors in the Chinese decision to develop an independent nuclear arsenal[citation needed]." See Nuclear blackmail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I now believe that China developed nuclear weapons in response to nuclear blackmail. By analogy, since India has not been subjected to nuclear threats (i.e. nuclear blackmail), this means that India has plenty of time to develop her nuclear weapons. India has the luxury of waiting until Obama leaves office and for a friendlier subsequent US administration.
     
  6. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    This is a little more accurate ,also the Chinese had witnessed what US atomic bombing of Japan in ww2 did, and the threats from USA in the 1950 had them pursue a nuclear program for their own security. The same happened to India in 1971 during the India pakistan war when USA sent the USS Enterprise in the Bay of Bengal, India tested in 1974.

    1971 War: How the US tried to corner India

    cross posted
     
  7. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    "On December 9, when the CIA director warned Nixon that 'East Pakistan was crumbling', Nixon decided to send the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise into the Bay of Bengal to threaten India."

    This looks like a conventional threat. I don't think that India has ever been the target of nuclear blackmail.

    "During the course of the presentation, the admiral intervened and said: 'Madam, the US 8th Fleet is sailing into the Bay of Bengal.' Nothing happened; the briefing continued. After sometime, the admiral repeated, 'Madam, I have to inform you that the 8th Fleet is sailing into the Bay of Bengal.' She cut him off immediately: 'Admiral, I heard you the first time, let us go on with the briefing.'"

    Indira Gandhi had some serious balls. (Am I allowed to say this?)

    "On November 10, Nixon instructed Kissinger to ask the Chinese to move some troops toward the Indian frontier. 'Threaten to move forces or move them, Henry, that's what they must do now.'

    This was conveyed to Huang Hua, China's envoy to the United Nations. Kissinger told Huang the US would be prepared for a military confrontation with the Soviet Union if the Soviet Union attacked China.

    On December 12, the White House received an urgent message. The Chinese wanted to meet in New York. General Alexander Haig, then Kissinger's deputy, rushed to the venue, but was disappointed. Huang just wanted to convey his government's stand in the UN, no words of an attack in Sikkim or in the then North East Frontier Agency (now, the northeastern states)."

    It's great when I find another example to fit my belief that nations only act in their own interests.
     
  8. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Martian I have started a thread on this topic in the wars and warhereos section, many people have said there was a nuclear threat but many say it was only conventional if people know more details please post in that thread.
     
  9. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    well if he abrogates the nuke deal established last year , then india returns to non-communication with the usa about its nuke program, if he goes along with it , it's still a matter of continuing negotiation for goi to increase and expand it's nuke program. THe deal never was a clear recognition of nuclear status, which is why the bjp didnt support it.

    GOI will have to negotiate every inch of the way , but the deal opened a door for such negotiations
     
  10. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    i dont agree with u even if are in american nuclear umberall tha ur umberall is goin to week in few decadse as china emerges stronger.plus ur umberall is not goin to stop pakistan from using nuke against us
     
  11. rockdog

    rockdog Guest

    What a joke!

    Do you have any knowledge about history?

    1. China exploded the first Nuke bomb on 1964, 8 yrs after Korea War with USA.

    2. The massive conflict between Soviet at border was at 1969, but before 1969.10.1, China already had 10 times of Nuke tests.

    3. At 1964-1976 China sent 100,000 secret troops in Vietnam to flight against US army, so one side with fighting USA, one side USA is protecting China?

    4. China and USA built first important relation at 1971, Nixon visited Beijing, and without any official diplomatic relationship.

    5. There was a honey moon between China and USA, but it was 1978-1989, but China never had US's nuclear umbrella
     
  12. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    India's Military nuclear reactors never were never will be subject to inspection

    LF ( and other colleagues ) what obama likes or doesnt is immaterial. India was developing what it wanted sanctions or otherwise prior to obama "being born".

    Even now wioth the nuke agreement with uncle sam the military reactors do not come within the purvue of the agreement adn the indian military can conduct whatever experiments.

    if GOI decides of it's own accord to do soeme nuke reduction in numbers ( understandably seeing others do the same , especially china ) , then that is a seprate issue again totally independent of obama's opinion(s)
     
  13. Tamil

    Tamil Regular Member

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    What a CRAP!!!! First Mr. BH OBAMA to DESTROY their NUKES FIRST then advice to others... NOBEL PRIZE is too much for just saying it only, if he dismantle US NUKES then what happen?? Oh God help all!!!
     

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