An Independant Scotland ?

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by Daredevil, Sep 9, 2009.

  1. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Scotland mulls over separation from UK

    Scotland mulls over separation from UK

    The Scottish government envisions a referendum on the country's separation from the UK in the face of domestic and Whitehall opposition.

    On Wednesday, Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond, who had earlier declared that the country would achieve independence by 2017, said he would present the parliament with a bill on a 2010 referendum on the matter, The Times reported.

    "This government was elected with a popular mandate to put the question of Scotland's future to the vote in a referendum. It is time for the people of Scotland to have their say," he said.

    In 1997, the Scots voted for Edinburgh's powers to be independent of the United Kingdom, paving the way for the 1999 reformation of the Scottish parliament.

    The parliament had been dissolved in 1707 following the Acts of Union, which joined Scotland and England together.

    Salmond called the so-called devolution a 'glass ceiling', which hampered the country's progress.

    It is, however, doubted that the move will survive the country's legislative minefield. Unionist parties are set to subject it to numerous challenges benefitting from their parliamentary majority over the SNP.

    Treasury chief Alistair Darling, meanwhile, called the Scottish prosperity conditioned on that of the UK and said Edinburgh had to see about the economy rather than addressing independence.
     
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  3. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    SNP outlines plans for referendum

    Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond has announced an independence referendum bill as the centrepiece of the SNP's plans for the coming year.

    The Scottish Government wants to stage the independence referendum in 2010.

    However, the minority administration's plan faces being rejected because of a lack of parliamentary support.

    Mr Salmond revealed details of a total of 13 bills, including minimum alcohol pricing, marking the start of the SNP's third legislative session.

    The first minister told MSPs there was a "consensus for change" on Scotland's constitutional status.

    He said: "I want Scotland to have the same responsibilities and opportunities as similar nations.

    "Until we can use all the economic and financial levers available to every other government in the world, Scotland will always be at a competitive disadvantage."

    So why the smile? Because Mr Salmond calculates that, setting aside views on independence per se, the intrinsic notion of a plebiscite tends to be rather popular with the people due to be consulted.

    He calculates, further, that those same people will tend to resent or, at least, question those who would seek to frustrate an exercise in popular democracy.

    Mr Salmond said he had been "very proud" to lead the Scottish Government but warned a "glass ceiling" threatened to stall the country's progress.

    "This government was elected with a popular mandate to put the question of Scotland's future to the vote in a referendum," he said.

    "It is time for the people of Scotland to have their say. Not everyone will agree with our vision for the future, we know that.

    "But the people of Scotland must be heard. This parliament should not stand in their way - let the people speak."

    The Scottish Government has said it could be a multi-option referendum - and this could include the tax changes proposed by the Calman Commission on devolution.

    Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray said the SNP's priorities should be the economy and crime.

    Mr Gray said: "This year's flagship, the referendum bill, was preannounced last year. It starts with even less support than the late unlamented council tax bill of last year.

    "With its rigged question to suit the SNP, its rigged timetable to suit the SNP and its misplaced prioritisation to suit the SNP, it is a flagship begging to be scuttled."

    Scottish Tory leader Annabel Goldie said Mr Salmond had chosen "posturing" over confronting the challenges facing Scotland.

    She said he was a "lone voice representing a minority view".

    Alcohol problem

    Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Tavish Scott said he would support the government when it concentrated on people's jobs and on the recession.

    He said: "We will not support the government when the SNP's internal party politics are more important than the country.

    "The referendum is about the SNP. The recession and jobs is about Scotland. We will put Scotland before the SNP."

    Other bills put before the parliament include a minimum pricing strategy aimed at stopping high-strength alcohol being sold for "pocket money prices", without affecting premium products like Scotch whisky.

    That plan has run into opposition, but ministers said tough action must be taken to cut the cost of Scotland's alcohol problem, which they estimate costs the country £2.25bn per year.

    There will also be a bill for a replacement of the Forth crossing, building a new bridge to the west of the current road crossing.

    A housing bill would end the right-to-buy for all new-supply social housing and there will be a bill to give patients greater rights on waiting times in the NHS.
     
  4. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Interesting development.
     
  5. sky

    sky Regular Member

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    Cant see it happening.

    Scotland receives more money from england to run it services, then money they collect from the scottish taypayer .so we end up subsidizing them,which people south of the border dont like much .The only time i can see the scots asking for independence is if a big oil field is discovered of the scottish coast .This may happen as there is still oil to be found of the scottish coast,billions off barrels .Then not only will they wont independence but also the oil revenue. Good luck to them i say,my taxes might come down a bit then.yipeeeeeeeeeeee
     
  6. sky

    sky Regular Member

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    On a more serious note,the idea of devaluation was to de centralise power from london and give more power back to scotland so they could have more say in how money for them was suppose to be spent.at the time the oppoistion parties cried out loud and clear this was the first step to full scottish independence,which the govenment dismissed as fantasy.roll forward a few years and, all thats happened is the union has got weaker and those wonting a free scotland gets closer by the day.the best and noble of intentions has gone horribly wrong,there is a lesson there for india as well,dont copy our current system of devolved govenment and be careful of how much power is given to state govenments.other wise you risk sowing the seeds of your future destruction..
     
  7. Hawk

    Hawk New Member

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    If its matter of oil, UK better retain scotland, and with that amount of oil, you pay half of yr current tax!:dance4:
     
  8. sky

    sky Regular Member

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    If only it was that simple,the scots have the right to hold a referendum now because of the devolved govenment in scotland. if they win that they will get there independence.we cant now stop them even if we wanted to.futher more if oil was found of the scottish coast and the scots didnt want there independence, our govenment would find more ways to waste money,cutting taxes is someting they will not do.since they came to power in 1997 the labour govenment has only rasied taxes even though we had the longest period of growth for well over 150 years.one example. if you have a child now the govenment will give you 1000 pounds of taxpayers money so your kid can have a child trust fund.thats great if we had surplus funds but we dont,we now have a mountain of debt which will take a generation to pay off.......:((
     
  9. Hawk

    Hawk New Member

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    So who is greater headache to UK- scotland or ireland?

    sorry for my weak knowledge about world affairs, i have just begun.

    On debt affairs, Europeans are used to debt-ridden life. also, doesn't govt encourage that?
     
  10. sky

    sky Regular Member

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    Not sure if you mean northern ireland or the republic of ireland,northern ireland is safe some what now,and scotland is just a drain on englands purse.
    regarding debt.european consumers are just that consumers,we spend money on things we dont need or stuff that ends up on ebay,or thrown away.i say where very wasteful
    on a whole host of stuff,when you have lots of money you just spend spend spend.then you end up in debt and wonder how that happened,that is those who are not of indian origin.we are educated to respect money by our parents and dont end up in as much trouble as most.
     
  11. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Scottish independence referendum: Alex Salmond unveils referendum plans

    Published on Wednesday 25 January 2012 18:13


    FIRST Minister Alex Salmond today unveiled his plans for a “straightforward” vote on independence which could see Scotland leave the United Kingdom.

    Mr Salmond launched the Scottish Government’s consultation on a £10 million referendum at Holyrood.

    He told MSPs the question that would be put to voters would be “short, straightforward and clear”.

    The Scottish Government proposes asking Scots: “Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?”.

    Mr Salmond said the period in the run-up to the independence vote would be the “most exciting in Scotland’s modern history”.

    He stated: “At the end of that period, in autumn 2014, people the length and breadth of our country will have their say in Scotland’s independence referendum.

    “Independence, in essence, is based on a simple idea: the people who care most about Scotland, that is the people who live, work and bring up their families in Scotland, should be the ones taking the decisions about our nation’s future.

    “No-one else is going to do a better job of making Scotland a success. No-one else has the same stake in our future. The people of Scotland should be in charge.”


    As well as the question on independence, Mr Salmond said the ballot could include the option of greatly-enhanced powers for Holyrood.

    He argued if there was “wide support” for the so-called devo max option, it was “only fair and democratic” it be included.

    “The Scottish Government’s position is for independence,” Mr Salmond said.

    “Therefore, that option will appear on the ballot paper in a straightforward manner.”

    However, he added: “If there is an alternative of maximum devolution which would command wide support in Scotland, then it is only fair and democratic that option should be among the choices open to the people of Scotland.

    “We will not, as the UK Government seems to want, eliminate that choice simply because it might be popular.”

    While UK elections are traditionally held on a Thursday, the consultation raises the possibility of having the referendum on a Saturday to help boost turnout.

    The Scottish Government also proposes extending the vote to 16 and 17-year-olds.

    The Scottish National Party (SNP) leader said: “It is right that our young people should have the chance to play their part in decisions about their community and their country.

    “If a 16-year-old in Scotland can register to join the Army, get married and pay taxes, surely he or she should be able to have a say in this country’s constitutional future?”

    The consultation proposes using elections watchdog the Electoral Commission to regulate the referendum.

    But Labour claimed its role was being diluted by the SNP, with shadow Scottish secretary Margaret Curran stating: “At present, the Electoral Commission has to rule on the wording of the question on the ballot paper because it is a point of principle that it shouldn’t be for politicians alone to pick.

    “Alex Salmond’s proposal to strip the Electoral Commission of its legal responsibility to rule on the question will fuel suspicion and is simply not acceptable.”

    She added: “It is completely wrong to agree to a neutral referee but then stop it doing its most important job.

    “Watering down the role of the watchdog is simply not democratic.”

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ex_salmond_unveils_referendum_plans_1_2077120
     
  12. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    There is no use in referendum now.

    The Scottish culture is essentially dead and is alive only in some remote villages/communities.

    Most of the urban Scots are now no different from English and speak English.
     
  13. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    That is why BAE is closing Portsmouth and not Scottish yards. Anything else Scotland loses will push them over the edge.
     
  14. IBSA

    IBSA Regular Member

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    I hope Scotland follows the same way of Montenegro and retake its independence from England. If current Scotish aren´t such different from English it isn't a enough motive to a sure failure of referendum. Montenegreans isn´t so much different from Serbians and decided separates themselves even so.

    Several independentist movs are more by economics causes than ethnic or cultural causes. And England faces an economic crisis today.
     
  15. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Maybe they can find some descendants of the House of Stewart and have a king once more.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Hopefully they do gain independence.
     
  17. tiranga

    tiranga Tihar Jail Banned

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    Anything bad for UK = me gusta :lol:
     
  18. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    kya baat kar raha ha yaar, till today, i did't able to understand Scottish accent,despite lived in UK for more than 6 yrs
     
  19. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    They are like Indian and Pakistani living in same land
     
  20. IBSA

    IBSA Regular Member

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    Jackie Stewart for King of Scotland!
     
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  21. IBSA

    IBSA Regular Member

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    I put 'if' for Karthic Sri said that has no difference today among scottish and english people. Because I don´t knows the modern scottish to say anything about them.

    What I know is English people are from germanic origin, descendents from the Saxons, a Germanic tribe that had inhabited the current Denmark. Even the english royal family has its relatives with the former german royal family, while the Scotlands, besides the Irish and Wales, are people from celtic origin.
     
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