AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by screwterrorists, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. proud_indian

    proud_indian Regular Member

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    I just realized that I couldn't understand the context of your post.
    thanks btw
     
  2. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Meaning they are not same............. An answer to your query.
     
  3. proud_indian

    proud_indian Regular Member

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    I mean to your earlier post that I quoted. I thought that you were saying that they are the same people.
     
  4. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    EJ230 of 110kN has not yet been developed. The AMCA lite or MCA (without 5th generation features like stealth or sensor fusion or 5th generation engines) can be a better option for Navy than LCA. Navy has limited space and is better utilised by keeping higher power plane

    Next, air force version is easier to make than Navy. So, it is impossible that Navy version comes out first. Simple rule of thumb is that - Navy version can be used in air force but nit vice versa. Also, it is more tedious and expensive to make Navy versions and hence countries avoid using the same version for both air force and navy.

    Anyways, better to first get MK2 before commenting more
     
  5. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    True, IAF and IA lacks the vision which IN has. See how navy supports each and every project.
     
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  6. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    Naval LCA begs to differ, this despite having an ex-navy Cmdr. Balaji at the helm of ADA.
     
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  7. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    For some strange reasons ever since Admiral Lamba assumed the office of CNS, I am witnessing a strange trajectory taking Navy away from preferring indigenous.

    They have already killed N-LCA which is --as it can not be replaced-- the stepping stone to Naval AMCA. However, Navy which could waste taxpayers money experimenting with Mig-29K --which is as good as no use during wartime because it requires full maintenance after every trap-- is finding N-LCA MK-2 useless despite knowing how critical it is for realising next big thing which could have been( selection tense is deliberate) N AMCA.

    Since F-35 will definitely follow F-18s which Navy has more or less selected there will be no N AMCA for sure. if this was not enough, Navy has practically ignored N Dhruv --despite HAL having met the specific requirements like less vibration at ASL and auto folding rotor blades for shipborne operations-- for its NUH requirements. Furthermore, it has shown its reluctance in joining IMRH project.

    If these are unfortunate signs of departure from earlier mindset I wonder.

    It seems Army is reversing its attitude towards indigenous weapons as recently CoAS has stated that India should fight its next war with locally developed weapons.

    Sorry for OT, mods.
     
  8. abingdonboy

    abingdonboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    The trajectory of a force does not change on the whims of an indduvidual leader, they are there for only 3-4 years at most and are little more than a figurehead, the real power exists with the civilian ledership.

    I don't think there's much we can learn from the CNS's comments/actions of late, I think is very much in line with his predecessors.
     
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  9. abingdonboy

    abingdonboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Afghans need bomb trucks and ground pounders, a 4/4.5+ gen multirole fighter is almost useless to them
     
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  10. Bhumihar

    Bhumihar Jako Rakhe Saiyan Mar Sake Na Koi Senior Member

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    We could use it to bomb taliban if it ever came down to sending Indian soldiers. From what I've seen f 16 has been of heavy use in WOT
     
  11. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Modi govt writing finis to Tejas?
    Published October 30, 2017 | By admin SOURCE: Bharat Karnad

    [​IMG]

    All work related to designing and developing the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft and its variants, including the right-weighted naval Tejas, has come to a stop at ADA and HAL. The plan was for the air force Mk-II version of the LCA Tejas light combat aircraft — a much improved version of the Mk-IA equipped with the indigenous DRDO AESA radar that Parrikar succeeded in forcing on the Indian Air Force to, in turn, lead in a natural progression to the follow-on advance medium combat aircraft (AMCA), which would also incorporate design features of the Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA).

    The FGFA to be produced in India is to include the features the IAF wanted in it, such as the 360 degree radar surveillance and tracking, a two-pilot configuration (the IAF under Charlie Brown asked for, but better sense prevailed as Vayu Bhavan realized that would increase its RCS) and even a new power plant. The Indian Govt has already invested in this collaborative project to the tune of some $1billion-$1.5 billion, and was cleared by then defence minister Manohar Parrikar in February this year.

    This entire plan is now unraveling with the Modi govt, at IAF’s persistent prodding, doing a rethink on the FGFA despite enormous investment of monies and Indian effort into it. The HAL chairman T Suvarna Raju has written to defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman strongly pitching for the FGFA program, especially stressing the fact that India stands to gain very advanced technologies that no other country is prepared to transfer in full, including computer source codes for every technology and feature in it, which will be the building blocks for the indigenous aerospace industry. (See https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-project-with-russia/articleshow/61189233.cms )

    The question is will Sitharaman display some little common sense and see that the F-16 and F-18 combo the US govt under Trump is pushing on Delhi supposedly to cement the “100 year” strategic partnership that Rex Tillerson offered as a means of containing China and maintaining peace in the Indo-Pacific/ Asia-Pacific region, will take India back half a century in aerospace terms. That’s how old the Lockheed Martin F-16 and the Boeing F-18 really are. Agility-wise, the Tejas can run circles around the F-16 and F-18, what to talk of the Pakistan Air Force — flying the F-16 for the last 30 years — which no doubt, is licking its chops in anticipation of the IAF fielding its own F-16s, and once again making a grievous historic blunder of the kind that led to GOI, on IAF’s say-so, junking the Marut Mk-II in the early 1970s, buying instead the British Jaguar deep penetration and strike aircraft that cannot strike hard and penetrate deep at the same time, and ending the prospects of locally designed and produced combat aircraft and aerospace industry, and sealing the future of the country as an arms dependency.

    Parrikar understood very well the importance of the LCA as lead-in hereafter to only Indian aircraft in IAF and Indian Navy’s inventory and resisted all overtures from the armed services in the direction of the FGFA rejection. Because let’s be clear what IAF’s enthusiasm for AMCA really is — it is a cover to ditch all indigenous aircraft altogether. Because without Tejas Mk-II and FGFA there’s no AMCA! This is the kind of brilliant tactical strategy the Indian military excels in — sawing off the limb of a tree the country is perched on. Parrikar saw through it, but lacked the guts to explain to Modi, stuck on simple-minded notions of ‘Make in India’ the importance of sticking with Tejas and marshaling all national resources into it, and going with the economical Su-30-Tejas variants option backed by FGFA as technology seedbed. But Modi went ahead and procured 36 Rafales from France anyway, preempting Parrikar’s correct choice of relying on augmented numbers of Su-30 upgraded to “super Sukoi” model, that would have resulted in a far superior Indian air order-of-battle than the hodge-podge fleet IAF will be fielding in the 2020s and beyond. God help the country.

    Now what of Sitharaman? Her background is curious. A JNU product and, like many of this Leftist local university’ s alumni, she took to the opportunities offered by the big, bad, Western world like fish to water. She worked at a senior position in the American firm, Price Waterhouse Cooper, in London, and as a producer at the British Broadcasting Corporation, requiring security clearance from the UK security services. Incidentally, was this background of no concern to the ruling BJP and GOI before she began climbing their ranks to now be the Union defence minister? So, it should surprise no one greatly if she speedily puts her signature on contracts to buy the obsolete F-16s and F-18s, 100 more or whatever of the Rafale, and similar, usually technologically dated, imported hardware from US, UK, France, Israel, et al the armed services keep pleading for.

    http://idrw.org/modi-govt-writing-finis-to-tejas/#more-152445 .
     
  12. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    I would rather commit suicide than believe in this nonsense. Just look at it - he abuses Nirmala Sitharaman for working in PwC and for being a JNU product. He next abuses India for conspiring to buy F16. He simply states that all work of Tejas has come to a halt while Tejas MK1A is being serially produced. He arbitrarily says that FGFA will give India 100% ToT including source codes as if Russia doesn't even want to keep its codes as a secret. No country would give its own source codes as that will enable others to create bugs.

    He appears to be some deranged Russian agent who doesn't deserve to have any credibility
     
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  13. torque456

    torque456 Regular Member

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    Tejas mk2 and N-LCA have come to a standstill with little attention to amca as it is. (Source- Trusted posters on some forums.)
     
  14. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    If your source is Indian defence forum or pakistan defence forum, then don't worry to much. I have been there and seen these nonsense myself. The forum is run by jihadis with fake names of "hellfire", "parikrama" etc.

    It is that there has been no news at all to outseide world and a high secrecy is maintained to prevent sabotage. If India was doing poorly on AMCA, there would be no reason for not to go to FGFA. Also, MK2 was long decided as a mandatory upgrade to MK1A due to additional requirement of fuel and space for carrying equipments internally.

    Nirmala Sitharaman is not the one who controls these projects but Modi himself. If these jihadis weren't able to get information, then Modi is doing a good job.

    Making MK2 is not a big deal but making Kaveri is. As long as Kaveri engines are completed, making MK2 will be an obvious step. Designing an airframe with minor improvement in size is just a small parameter adjustment and easily done. Increase in scaling by 3-4% requires minimal adjustments. The delta wing is highly unstable which means there will be lot of margins already fed into the fly-by-wire to accommodate the small changes.
     
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  15. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    You appear to be making unnecessary noise without any sound logic. Care to explain why would India make Tejas MK1A but not MK2? If US lobby couldn't kill MK1A, how could it kill MK2?
    Also, Kaveri is nearing completion and is only a matter of time. Why couldn't USA kill Kaveri engine too? If it is about killing a project by lobby, everything will be killed
     
  16. torque456

    torque456 Regular Member

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    I hope you're right. I keep wishing for a full scale prototype of amca to pop up someday without any intimation.
     
  17. Kay

    Kay Regular Member

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    We do not know how important stealth will be 10 years from now. A lot of technological improvements can reduce the absolute advantage that stealth possesses today. Also, electronic stealth may replace stealth shaping. In any case, most air forces will continue operating a mix of stealthy and non-stealthy fighters in the foreseeable future. So, an MK2 10 years down the line is still a good proposition.
     
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  18. Kay

    Kay Regular Member

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    HAL is on track to finish 11 Tejas by this financial year. Private industry will ensure that officers and bureaucrats get their cut - be it Desi or foreign. That is why there is so much clamouring for privatization, not because they do a better job.
    Lockheed Martin has royally screwed up F-35. And this is not the first fiasco by foreign private industries - F111, Eurofighter, Zumwalt, Littoral Combat Ships, Queen Elizabeth Aircraft Career - the list of screw-ups is quite large.
     
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  19. sthf

    sthf Senior Member Senior Member

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    Doesn't matter. Except F-35, every single "5th gen" is designed to outclass legacy fighters in every field be it aerodynamics, engines, avionics, fuel or armaments. Stealth is not be all end all regardless whatever LM claims.
    How about 20? After 10 years production run starting 2027 means that last batch of Mk2 will enter service 30 years after F-22. Not much of a triumph.
     
  20. Flame Thrower

    Flame Thrower Regular Member

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    What you say sounds logical.... but it is not going to be true.

    5th gen fighters will replace air superiority fighters for sure. They out class everything else, but we still need 4.5 gen fighters.

    The reasons are

    1. 4.5 gen are lot cheaper.
    2. Very low maintenance.
    3. More no. of sorties per day.
    4. Peace time air patrol.
    5.Bombing role after 5th gen destroy enemy Air Force.

    However there is a chance of UCAVs giving a tough fight to 4.5 gen fighters and occupy their role.

    If we go for LCA mk2 then it will be the last legacy fighter in I for sure. If we don't the Rafale will be the last one.
     
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