AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Kunal Biswas]

AMCA can be build with present technologies like other countries already doing ..

In time one can introduce various upgrades and batches can be upgraded ..

We should not waste time on experiment but should go with what proven and abundance we have ..

 

[scatterStorm]

AMCA can be build with present technologies like other countries already doing ..

In time one can introduce various upgrades and batches can be upgraded ..

We should not waste time on experiment but should go with what proven and abundance we have ..

Yup evolutionary based design is much better if we have low budget but still have aspiration of shooting to the moon.

 

[Chinmoy]

I would restrain myself from assuming two prototypes of different airframe design and engine class, because of a very simple reason.. It isn't official, and since we've months to go before a 1:1 scale model is WT tested.

Although hypothetically, it could be possible to have two different fighters of same weight and engine class of AMCA origin, because Western tech do what we call in science A/B Testing.

What is A/B testing? Simply put, you create two models and let them compete with each other, the winner takes it all. However western practices tweaks this sort of testing to squeeze best of both worlds.

Take an example of the AFP(Advanced fighter program) project started by USAF where two proposal came in:

One by Lockheed Martin and the other by Northrop, with YF22 and YF23 as the result of AB testing models. They competed each other, and the winner Lockheed took it all. However, looser would still be getting work and would also share key tech used in there prototype.

Nevertheless, it could be possible that two different designs be possible for our AMCA, say AMCA 1 and 2, they would compete and winner would take it all, but if our scientist were smart they would take best of both worlds to produce a fighter much capable and sought for.

But this is just speculations and should remain so, I highly doubt we even have such budget for A/B testing. Now all we could do is wait for the official news.

I think this is what AMCA 1 and 2 is all about (if its true). Members here are simply mixing things up by making it appear two different aircrafts with different role. As I said earlier, its the most logical way to go for any development. As far as I remember something like this has also been proposed for APC of IA too.

 

[kunal1123]

I think this is what AMCA 1 and 2 is all about (if its true). Members here are simply mixing things up by making it appear two different aircraft with different role. As I said earlier, its the most logical way to go for any development. As far as I remember something like this has also been proposed for APC of IA too.

problem is not about A/B testing, problem is the product nature. AMCA is suppose to be air-superior multi-role medium combat aircraft ,now if u see the Russian offer (as by lcafanboy) they offer amca-2 with S117 engines now an uprated of same is in pak-fa currently flying , same category(actually same with new technology ) engine is in development for pak-fa.
now about a/b testing . it is generally done when u have two different cooperation with two diff product for same role. like we are doing in FICV (if we are doing the way it suppose to).
now let see where a/b testing actually happen for aircraft
1. USA they have Boeing and Lockheed marting both indigenous
2. Russia mig &su same as usa
so here is the trick lies for A/B testing if u have it between in house companies u can selected any one and still retain the all technology.
now with amca-1&2
amca 1 is our own by ada ,amca-2 is Russian with Russian engine and avionic(as by lcafanboy) so basically mean by russian SU.
now let see Russian having another with mig and uae so for a/b testing they need another product there come india+ su and both have buyer for recovering R&d cost and any one win will see in russian airforce and they will have two product without spending a lot in R&d(as it is finiance by uae and india )and we end up buying two Russian product with nearly same instrument
now everyone jump up and saying they we have our amca to go fight with Russian but think about how much lca have to go through to see day light when it don't have such replacement . have one mistake in amca-1 and entire MSM and Forieng lobbyist will jump to shut it down and who know in the 10 year development cycle if AMCA-2 rejected by Indian Russian will make sure to complete it and weight for a big incident(if u know what i mean ) to offer with TOT.

 

[kunal1123]

Now if u want to buy Russian design with Russian technology why not go for pak-fa with modified SU-30 MKI like deal and speed Rest on in-house R&D for AMCA .

 

[Indx TechStyle]

well you misunderstood me i am taking about AMCA1 & AMCA 2 AS THEY WILL BE OF SAME CLASS. WHY HAVE TWO DIFFERENT VERSION.

PAK-FA IS NOT IN LIMBO IT IS FGFA THAT IS IN LIMBO AS HE SAY THIS IS CONSOLATION FOR DIRECT BUY OF PAK-FA SO IMHO WHY SPEND R&D MONEY FOR TWO AMCA AND BUY PAK-FA RATHER SPEND ALL R&D MONEY OF OUR AMCA AND BUY PAK-FA (IN MORE NUMBER ) AS IT IS DIFFERENT CLASS WITH SAME ENGINE (CLASS) AS AMCA-2

You again killed entire logic, I said both are birds of different classes.

 

[kunal1123]

idrw.org
Official Update of India's AMCA 5th Generation Fighter project - Indian Defence Research Wing


SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK

As per official information sourced from Annual report of Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) compiled together by idrw.org on India’s AMCA 5th Generation Fighter project , Government of India had sanctioned to carryout feasibility studies of design and development of Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) on 5th Oct 2010, at a cost of Rs.90.5 Crores, for a duration of 1 ½ years initially and st subsequently PDC was extended upto 31 March 2017 .

AMCA Feasibility Report: Feasibility studies have been carried out based on IAF’s Top Level Operational Requirements and completed the scope of the project. Feasibility Report was compiled and Review held in November 2013. Feasibility Report was updated in October 2015 with various activities carried out post the reviews and submitted to Air HQ and Hon’ble Raksha Mantri.

Present Status: AMCA configuration has been arrived after considerable refinements and it was accepted by Indian Air Force. Currently, the validation tests are being conducted.These are AMCA intake model of 1:1 scale for RCS test, 2nd campaign of high speed wind tunnel tests, static intake test,dynamic & rotary derivative tests for generating un-steady data etc. Also a simulator has been developed which would be used for sizing the system and refining the architecture . The technology development and testing projects are being continued at various work centres.

PSQR Finalization: DA received Draft Preliminary Services Qualitative Requirements (PSQRs) for AMCA in September 2014 from Air HQ for study and feedback. Appreciation of requirements document was forwarded to Air HQ for finalizing PSQRs. Reviews have been held by VCAS, DCAS and ACAS (Plans).

AMCA latest Configuration and development approach are accepted by IAF. First two/three prototypes will fly with proven 90kN class engine and 110 kN class engine will be installed in a phased th manner from 4 prototype onwards. PSQR is being amended by IAF towards finalization.

Powerplant: It has been communicated by Air HQ that the AMCA should be powered by 110 kN class engine. GE, Euroject and Rolls Royce have proposed G-G route for AMCA powerplant. A final decision is awaited.

Business Models and Execution Methods: As part of AMCA feasibility, various possible scenarios of AMCA Programme execution were studied which includes participation of Indian and foreign aircraft houses in various collaborative modes. AMCA team with the help of Indian Institute of Management, Bangalore (IIMB) has carried out the strategic analysis of possible candidate Programme Execution Models (i) Joint Venture (JV) with International Aircraft House (IAH) & Domestic Aircraft House (DAH), (ii) JV with IAH, (iii) JV with DAH and IAH as consultant and (iv) IAH as consultant), for the Design & Development, Production and Product Support phases of AMCA Programme.

Based on the Analysis & Discussions, it can be concluded that the Execution Model ‘JV with IAH & DAH’ is the unanimous first choice of the Experts for attaining the defined Programme Goals in the AMCA Programme. The Execution Model ‘JV with IAH’ stands in the second place followed by ‘JV with DAH and IAH as Consultant’ and ‘IAH as Consultant’ in the third and fourth places respectively.

AMCA – NAVY: Indian Navy (IN) Projected requirement for Naval variant of AMCA and forwarded Top Level Operational Requirements ( Vide Letter No : AO/9670/NAMCA, dated 7th Sep 2015). Meeting held with VCNS on 24th Nov 2015 at Naval Head Quarters and discussions held on Way Forward for AMCA – Navy.

Way Forward: Permission may be given to initiate next phase of activities. In-principle approval for submission of CCS papers and Lead-in project has been sought.

NOTE : Article cannot be reproduced without written permission of idrw.org in any form .



NO WHAT THE HELL IS THIS...........................??????????
Based on the Analysis & Discussions, it can be concluded that the Execution Model ‘JV with IAH & DAH’ is the unanimous first choice of the Experts for attaining the defined Programme Goals in the AMCA Programme. The Execution Model ‘JV with IAH’ stands in the second place followed by ‘JV with DAH and IAH as Consultant’ and ‘IAH as Consultant’ in the third and fourth places respectively.

 

[kunal1123]

You again killed entire logic, I said both are birds of different classes.

SORRY
again u r misunderstood i am referring to the response u have in my
"1. HAVING TWO DIFFERENT DEGIN IN SAME WEIGHT CLASS CATEGORY ONE IS OUR AND OTHER IS RUSSIAN MEAN WE ARE CREATION COMPETITION FOR YOUR OWN PRODUCT." IN THIS i am referring to AMCA-1 AND AMCA-2 AS THEY ARE OF MEDIUM CLASS( PROVIDED BY LCAFANBOY) NOT AMCA AND PAK-FA

 

[Chinmoy]

problem is not about A/B testing, problem is the product nature. AMCA is suppose to be air-superior multi-role medium combat aircraft ,now if u see the Russian offer (as by lcafanboy) they offer amca-2 with S117 engines now an uprated of same is in pak-fa currently flying , same category(actually same with new technology ) engine is in development for pak-fa.
now about a/b testing . it is generally done when u have two different cooperation with two diff product for same role. like we are doing in FICV (if we are doing the way it suppose to).
now let see where a/b testing actually happen for aircraft
1. USA they have Boeing and Lockheed marting both indigenous
2. Russia mig &su same as usa
so here is the trick lies for A/B testing if u have it between in house companies u can selected any one and still retain the all technology.
now with amca-1&2
amca 1 is our own by ada ,amca-2 is Russian with Russian engine and avionic(as by lcafanboy) so basically mean by russian SU.
now let see Russian having another with mig and uae so for a/b testing they need another product there come india+ su and both have buyer for recovering R&d cost and any one win will see in russian airforce and they will have two product without spending a lot in R&d(as it is finiance by uae and india )and we end up buying two Russian product with nearly same instrument
now everyone jump up and saying they we have our amca to go fight with Russian but think about how much lca have to go through to see day light when it don't have such replacement . have one mistake in amca-1 and entire MSM and Forieng lobbyist will jump to shut it down and who know in the 10 year development cycle if AMCA-2 rejected by Indian Russian will make sure to complete it and weight for a big incident(if u know what i mean ) to offer with TOT.

What are you trying to say exactly?

 

[kunal1123]

What are you trying to say exactly?

well in one line if what lcafanboy say is true it will be death-Neel for ADA/HAL AMCA.

 

[Chinmoy]

well in one line if what lcafanboy say is true it will be death-Neel for ADA/HAL AMCA.

It all depends on perception. As for what is discussed till now, one AMCA would be with western engine and avionics whereas other would be with russian. Now as far as design of any fighter is concerned, there is much more to it other then engine and avionics. As far as Russian design and avionics is concerned, with the experience in Migs and MKI, we do have a fair idea of it. Moreover avionics is something where India is not lacking behind in indigenous factor. So overall design would be Indian or a JV between India and Russia. Not a bad deal for any medium weight class stealth fighter design. With two prototypes in hand, HAL, ADA and DRDO could work on avionics and other design matter as life time upgrade.

JV doesn't always mean death of inhouse development. It depends on your approach towards the development cycle which decides whether you survive or perish. Now after proving the fact that ADA could work on flight design with LCA flying and going strong day after day, I don't see death of these agencies with any such JV. Infact I am looking at a vast experience gain for us with this type of collaboration.

 

[kunal1123]

SOURCES: http://newsquare.kr/issues/1064
GOOGLE TRANSLATE:
The KF-X development plan announced by the Defense Agency is as follows.

• September 2019: End of design
• 2021: Test flights for 4 years after the release of 6 KF-X prototypes
• June 2026: Development terminated
• 2032: Mass production of 120 KF-X fighters completed

The KF-X development project will take about 10 years to complete the development and 16 years to complete the mass production. A total of 18.1 trillion won will be added to the project, including the development cost of 8.5 trillion won and the mass production cost of 9.6 trillion won. It is a long and huge national project. Since development itself is directly related to national security, it is also very important that development is completed within a certain budget and period.


WHERE WE ARE IN OUR AMCA PROJECT..??????????????

 

[lcafanboy]

SOURCES: http://newsquare.kr/issues/1064
GOOGLE TRANSLATE:
The KF-X development plan announced by the Defense Agency is as follows.

• September 2019: End of design
• 2021: Test flights for 4 years after the release of 6 KF-X prototypes
• June 2026: Development terminated
• 2032: Mass production of 120 KF-X fighters completed

The KF-X development project will take about 10 years to complete the development and 16 years to complete the mass production. A total of 18.1 trillion won will be added to the project, including the development cost of 8.5 trillion won and the mass production cost of 9.6 trillion won. It is a long and huge national project. Since development itself is directly related to national security, it is also very important that development is completed within a certain budget and period.


WHERE WE ARE IN OUR AMCA PROJECT..??????????????

We will start our AMCA project when there will be talks of 6th generation fighters and will be in testing it when others will be getting ready for 6th generation fighters and IAF will be rejecting and doing Randi Rona on AMCA as it is not capable for the current threat scenario so sell country to get some 6th generation fighters. So basically LCA redux.

 

[Chirag]

SOURCES: http://newsquare.kr/issues/1064
GOOGLE TRANSLATE:
The KF-X development plan announced by the Defense Agency is as follows.

• September 2019: End of design
• 2021: Test flights for 4 years after the release of 6 KF-X prototypes
• June 2026: Development terminated
• 2032: Mass production of 120 KF-X fighters completed

The KF-X development project will take about 10 years to complete the development and 16 years to complete the mass production. A total of 18.1 trillion won will be added to the project, including the development cost of 8.5 trillion won and the mass production cost of 9.6 trillion won. It is a long and huge national project. Since development itself is directly related to national security, it is also very important that development is completed within a certain budget and period.


WHERE WE ARE IN OUR AMCA PROJECT..??????????????

Prachar Prasar wali sarkar ne 3 saal me kya kiya

no funding to AMCA
no Foc to LCA
even LCA1A became lollipop for crying child for LCA2

 

[TPFscopes]

Prachar Prasar wali sarkar ne 3 saal me kya kiya

no funding to AMCA
no Foc to LCA
even LCA1A became lollipop for crying child for LCA2

Cross-check your records please.
Funds for 1:1 model of AMCA are already issued months ago.
Funds for AURA UAV also issued.
Revival of NAL SARAS
Step towards completion of KAVERI GTX
IOC-2 was achieved in January'15.
FOC to be received by july'17
Funds issued for MK-2.
8 Engines for MK2 are Ordered . 2 f414 are already received last month.
There are too many facts too.

I request you, not to share false facts here.

 

[TPFscopes]

There's actually no official announcement for 2 different Airframes of AMCA and the funds are issued only for 1:1 Airframe to test the stealth features (will be ready by end of 2017 or early 2018).

For FGFA,
Suspense will be revoked on MAY 15, 2017.

 

[TPFscopes]

India's Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft AMCA will also feature sixth generation elements too. AMCA will employ a digital Fly-By-Light ( FBL ) System for flight control instead of conventional Fly-By-Wire System control system used by most of the fourth generation fighters and existing fifth generation fighter planes.

The digital FBL system of AMCA will sport a Distributed Digital Flight Control Computer or DDFCC developed by by Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) which will receive signal from wide range of sensors and pilot control stick inputs. After receiving these signals, it will processed by the system through the appropriate channels to excite and control the rudder, leading edge slat hydraulic actuators and the Elevons.

It is constructed of four computing channels, each with its own independent power supply and all housed in differently placed LRU.

The advanced,next-generation DDFCC is expected to give the Indian AMCA a edge over other fifth generation fighters who still use conventional Flight systems. Co-incidentally the new Japanese Stealth Fighter Mitsubishi X-2 'ShinShin' will sport this same feature of using Fly-by-Light system.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

WHERE WE ARE IN OUR AMCA PROJECT..??????????????

We will start our AMCA project when there will be talks of 6th generation fighters and will be in testing it when others will be getting ready for 6th generation fighters and IAF will be rejecting and doing Randi Rona on AMCA as it is not capable for the current threat scenario so sell country to get some 6th generation fighters. So basically LCA redux.

AMCA in second face of development.
Preliminary Design face done and development design in process.

Assuming you guys are mechanical or aero engineers, I won't bother to explain difference between both.

 

[Chirag]

AMCA in second face of development.
Preliminary Design face done and development design in process.

Assuming you guys are mechanical or aero engineers, I won't bother to explain difference between both.

I still can't understand How is it possible without money? If so it is the best start up...

 

[wuzetian]

I still can't understand How is it possible without money? If so it is the best start up...

Please follow this thread carefully , funds have been sanctioned by Modi govt for making 1:1 scale model of AMCA 's frozen design for stealth studies