AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[republic_roi97]

Donald Trump's stances over ToTs

He's a business man, he'll think about profit and losses. :biggrin2:

 

[scatterStorm]

It's interesting for Boeing to Pitch collab efforts to our AMCA program, I'd say they've got guts, nevertheless whom am I kidding, they are Rednecks and Yanks both! It'll be interesting to see that some kind of value would come out of it, given if we go with there program. But let's crank-in the hypothetical scenario, "What if we went with the Boeing's offering?" What do you think folks?

What I think about this whole "sugarcoating" of F18s deal to MOD with a collab on AMCA by Boeing is not new, due to past record of US defense contractors to shun there promises by shelving or down right scraping there technological additives as mentioned by some of the people in this thread is quite discomforting to me. My point is, they would not just boot-lick but would rather ass-lick just to push there agenda, in this case pitching F18 "growler" variant while offering helping hands.

At this point I am afraid that this all "act east" policy of our present govt. could potentially threaten our 5th gen FGFA program with the Ruskies! Adding a to the threat list would be placing a manufacturing unit of F18s.

Now before someone go guns blazing on me, I don't dislike the jet, it's the worlds best serviceable plane bar none IMO, imagine those arresting gears making go an almost 33 tons mean machine to dead stop, now think of the newton laws acting on that jet at that time! That's a tough Joe and all the other capabilities the growler offers like the ECM suit, I mean yeah Shit's heavy there.

Seems to me that this whole situation is paradoxical and could haywire our present situation IMO:

1. We may get what we want for our AMCA, and it would fast forward the development by almost a decade.
2. But then there bad track record, and they are just pushing there agenda thingy.
   
3. It may give us the state of the art production facility and possibly will teach Indian Defence manufacturers like DRDO or HAL etc A thing or two about manufacturing standards and benchmarks. ( This is a gem ).
4. But then we will be sidelining the Ruskies and they will stall or possibly would deny proper share of ToT of the FGFA program.
5. Production Facility would prove as a test bed for other production facilities.
6. But ( people may laugh on this ) then the paranoia of a "Kill switch"! I know but that's me.

Bottomline IMO is: If we trust those buggers, than this whole AMCA thing could be a reality downright on our faces, but this would make some folks really unhappy.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Please share the video here let all of us also see.

HAL AMCA India's fifth generation fighter update - YouTube

 

[square]

Could be that, france might help us with Kaveri engine.

resently defence minister in goa requesting/ inviting the french company to setup engine menufecturing unit in goa....thats a clear indication that no kaveri related deal happened with rafale...
https://www.google.co.in/amp/m.econ...ring-unit-in-goa/amp_articleshow/55016003.cms

to my view , amca engine is still a unsorted issue.....drdo had high hopes toward dtti , but seem that boeing and ge has now linked the joint venture of f414 to power the amca with f18....
surely f18 not going to happened...
so, options are limited....

Saw a video of AMCA yesterday. It claimed that from design to everything is ready because it is in the line with LCA MK2 design. . Main constrain is engine. So we are struck in engines once again.

 

[smestarz]

Please do read it correctly,

what does this say "
"We are going to require 6,000-10,000 engines in next ten years and most of them are SAFRAN engines," he said. "

Are we buying 1000 Rafales? hahahaha

Surely we are not talking only plane engines here

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

resently defence minister in goa requesting/ inviting the french company to setup engine menufecturing unit in goa....thats a clear indication that no kaveri related deal happened with rafale...
https://www.google.co.in/amp/m.econ...ring-unit-in-goa/amp_articleshow/55016003.cms

to my view , amca engine is still a unsorted issue.....drdo had high hopes toward dtti , but seem that boeing and ge has now linked the joint venture of f414 to power the amca with f18....
surely f18 not going to happened...
so, options are limited....

 

[Indx TechStyle]

AMCA Program was never shelved. It's alive and fully active.

Despite the Navy junking the aircraft carrier version of the home-grown Light Combat Aircraft, the DRDO would continue working on the plane to develop it into a naval variant of the indigenous fifth-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

We will use the experience and learning for developing it into a fifthgeneration fighter plane," DRDO officials told Mail Today.

The DRDO is already working on the proposed Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft which will have the capabilities and strength of a fifth generation fighter and we would develop a naval variant of the plane using the experience of working on Naval LCA, they said.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indian-naval-aviation.5337/page-50#post-1240469

 

[aditya10r]

Please do read it correctly,

what does this say "
"We are going to require 6,000-10,000 engines in next ten years and most of them are SAFRAN engines," he said. "

Are we buying 1000 Rafales? hahahaha

Surely we are not talking only plane engines here

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

10000 engines are we going to wage ww3.......................

 

[Pulkit]

10000 engines are we going to wage ww3.......................

I donot know how many engines are needed in the life cycle of one aircraft but if we need 10000 engines in next ten years then:
800 aircrafts currently single and double engine.
lets say in next 10 years we add 500 more (ignoring any lost) total of 1300 aircrafts that means 7 engines per aircrafts in 10 years which cannot be true at alll....

where do they get this figure from?

@smestarz

 

[tharun]

10000 engines are we going to wage ww3.......................

No..fighter jet life cycle is about 30 years with upgrades..but engine life span max of 3000-4000 hours
You need to replace new engines once old completes it's life span

 

[Pulkit]

No..fighter jet life cycle is about 30 years with upgrades..but engine life span max of 3000-4000 hours
You need to replace new engines once old completes it's life span

what would be the life span of an aircrafts in Hours just like you informed us about engines.

The life of aircrafts also depends on the number of hours clocked by it.
with every flight there is an impact on its structure which needs to be retired after certain flying hours.

 

[Chinmoy]

what would be the life span of an aircrafts in Hours just like you informed us about engines.

The life of aircrafts also depends on the number of hours clocked by it.
with every flight there is an impact on its structure which needs to be retired after certain flying hours.

Life span of any fighter aircraft can't be drawn out on basis of sortie or flying hours. Because under normal flying condition or day to day sortie, its structural integrity doesn't gets compromised a lot unlike those in time of active patrol or in war. So as @tharun had mentioned, an aircraft could be overhauled and can be used for 30 years e.g Mirage, Jaguar and Migs in case of India.

 

[Pulkit]

Life span of any fighter aircraft can't be drawn out on basis of sortie or flying hours. Because under normal flying condition or day to day sortie, its structural integrity doesn't gets compromised a lot unlike those in time of active patrol or in war. So as @tharun had mentioned, an aircraft could be overhauled and can be used for 30 years e.g Mirage, Jaguar and Migs in case of India.

Chinmoy Every aircraft has a life span in terms of it flying hours .
I am no expert in this but if that's the case,then in your point of view during the entire life span how many engines it requires?

 

[Chinmoy]

Chinmoy Every aircraft has a life span in terms of it flying hours .
I am no expert in this but if that's the case,then in your point of view during the entire life span how many engines it requires?

It depends on the very engine you are using. If a life span of an engine is 3000 hrs and if it flies for say 200 hrs/ year. then you could say that it should serve you 15 years mathematically. But that's not the case. Any aircraft engine does see active service for around 8 to 10 years only during its whole life span. Any aircraft during its whole flight life time does operate on 3 to 4 engines.

 

[tharun]

what would be the life span of an aircrafts in Hours just like you informed us about engines.

The life of aircrafts also depends on the number of hours clocked by it.
with every flight there is an impact on its structure which needs to be retired after certain flying hours.

There would be no life span for fighter jets in hours....They look is how the airframe condition is...they overhaul to maintain the flying condition..if every one follows flying hours then our IAF will have less than 300 planes by right now..

 

[Pulkit]

It depends on the very engine you are using. If a life span of an engine is 3000 hrs and if it flies for say 200 hrs/ year. then you could say that it should serve you 15 years mathematically. But that's not the case. Any aircraft engine does see active service for around 8 to 10 years only during its whole life span. Any aircraft during its whole flight life time does operate on 3 to 4 engines.

Thanks for the numbers .
Now if we get back to the main point .
10000 engines in the next 10 years is not possible at all....Which was the main point i was trying to convey.

 

[Pulkit]

There would be no life span for fighter jets in hours....They look is how the airframe condition is...they overhaul to maintain the flying condition..if every one follows flying hours then our IAF will have less than 300 planes by right now..

I said i am not expert but as i have worked a little in aero field I still remember that we were told that a certain aircraft has a life of about 10,000 hours still left and given the utility will be able to function for next 5 years.
That's why I was stressing lifespan in hours....

Any one who can shed some light on it???

 

[Chinmoy]

I said i am not expert but as i have worked a little in aero field I still remember that we were told that a certain aircraft has a life of about 10,000 hours still left and given the utility will be able to function for next 5 years.
That's why I was stressing lifespan in hours....

Any one who can shed some light on it???

What you said is true for any of the commercial aircraft. They do go through maintenance after a specific flight hours apart from general maintenance after each and every flight. But in case of fighter things does change. Fighters are subjected to rigorous maintenance after each and every sortie. After every couple of sortie the engine gets replaced. You could say that any particular fighter does not fly on one single engine for more then a couple of sorties. Even the flight time of fighters are too less then any commercial fighter. You could safely say that if a fighter does complete 10 flight hour in a month, the it flies around 5 flight hour with one engine. Thats the reason why availability of MKI was around 50% at the time of induction.

 

[Pulkit]

What you said is true for any of the commercial aircraft. They do go through maintenance after a specific flight hours apart from general maintenance after each and every flight. But in case of fighter things does change. Fighters are subjected to rigorous maintenance after each and every sortie. After every couple of sortie the engine gets replaced. You could say that any particular fighter does not fly on one single engine for more then a couple of sorties. Even the flight time of fighters are too less then any commercial fighter. You could safely say that if a fighter does complete 10 flight hour in a month, the it flies around 5 flight hour with one engine. Thats the reason why availability of MKI was around 50% at the time of induction.

Okay thanks but i think I will have to further investigate on this...

 

[smestarz]

A fighter plane is maintained after every sortie to ensure that it is in good flying condition. A good maintenance ensures that the fleet is in top condition. When people talk of Life of aircraft they certainly mean the age and condition of air frame. Engines can be replaced. Engines of an airplane are not replaced after few sorties, but for Su-30 MKI, if the engines have a problem then the engined had to be removed and sent to Russia for repairs and maintenance and that is why India had more than 4 engines per Su-30 MKI so that in case the engine develops a fault the plane is not grounded, it is replaced with another engine and it goes off.
A good engine is one which is easily maintainable. The french see the modular approach for this, the modular approach means that the faulty module can be replaced and the engine is working again, and the the engineers can take their time to repair the faulty module, Modular approach is time saving but expensive in a way. On other hand, the general engine depends on repairing the faulty parts, this might be time consuming but cheaper, and there is need for experienced mechanic to identify the fault quickly.

they talked about 10000 engines, and since we say French engines, which french engines are IAF using? 10000 engines for 36 Rafale? If India ordered say 5000 Rafales than that number might hold true not till then. The Russians planes cannot be fitted with french engines. Most of our fighter fleet is Russian. But on other hand India has a huge requirements of helicopters for military as well as civilian use and hence those are the engines in the topic

 

[airtel]

what is this "NG build facilities " ??