'Genetic engineering' in East Pakistan

[Cliff@sea]

I used to think, only I have such an slapstick/obtuse sense of humor! However, in this case even I could not get a better hilarious translation than what you suggested.....Though it may have been unintentional but it was hilarious and shows the frequency your brain is tuned to!

since u seem to be better acquainted . . . .
perhaps u will guide me . . .through the finer points of 'the' frequency

 

[maomao]

since u seem to be better acquainted . . . .
perhaps u will guide me . . .through the finer points of 'the' frequency

Don't take it otherwise......your translations were hilarious which shows how your thought process can work!

 

[Tronic]

Most Muhajirs claim a foreign(pashtun included) or upper caste descent, but they don't claim it to avoid being discriminated but to establish their superiority over the Indic tribes. They are the ones who championed Pakistan.

Singh, I have been through a 5 year relationship with a Pakistani Muhajir girl, and have even met her entire family. I am well aware of their mindset. Even her family claims to be Arab descendants, and despite this, they have very deep insecurities against Punjabis. Their attitude is more of a plea to be seen as an equal, rather than a sense of superiority. Their constant ranting and labeling themselves as the "posh" and "forward" people as compared to the "backward" and "jahil" Punjabis is but a facade to console themselves of their social position. Their real feelings come forward, when she herself, and her siblings, would constantly tell me with pride and keep on bombarding me with the fact that their aunt was a Punjabi, and how they had a Punjabi family member in their family!

That's how I conclude, that their claims to be Persians/Arabs/Turks/etc, is actually a plea to be recognized, not a genuine sense of superiority!

In addition to that, I also know of a Bangladeshi Muslim girl claiming to be Arab descendant, aswell as another Pakistani Muhajir (Bihari) girl claiming the same. In both these cases too, it is in a sense of inferiority, not superiority!

Arains, Awans have started claiming a foreign descent as a consequence of islamization, earlier they claimed to be rajputs, jatts.

Agree with the Awans, though the Arains still largely consider themselves an Indic tribe. On our side of Punjab, they are the same as the Kamboj clan.

Then there are Sheikhs who would be from misc middle to upper castes who claim persian or arab descent to go up the hierarchy.

I agree with you, however, the Punjabi Sheikhs are mainly a business-oriented city dwelling people, i.e., the "Baniyas" and the "Bahmans" of Pakistani Punjab. You know very well the feelings of the agricultural and rural clans against these groups, and that is especially true in Pakistan, where Baniyas are stigmatized with the image of the money counting "Hindu Baniya"! This means that the Muslim Baniyas, to avoid the stigma needed to go find themselves a better suited identity. Their situation is somewhat similar to the Muhajirs.

Then there are the pirs ruling South Punjab, Sindh who claim Arab or Persian descent.

Agreed. I don't have much knowledge about South Punjab, though I see that their rulers claim to be descended from the Abbasids.

(Although, I did know one Seraiki girl D), she would force me to listen to seraiki songs and claim that they are the same as Punjabi; and even she herself spoke Punjabi and infact, tried harder to be a Punjabi, than not. Though, this one example is a one off and may not count. )

The lower castes no matter what their descent are discriminated against.

True.

 

[ejazr]

The idea of genetics and Eugenics as such with the conclusion that one race or people is better than others because of his genes or race is basically a critical compenent of Fascist thought process. Particularly when the thought process is institutionalised as part of govt. policy or a political movement.

When I use Fascism here, I use it in the technical, definitive form of the term rather than a name-calling epithet that people use it for. The other component apart from the race issue and nativitism is the militarisation and authoritarianism in society. And Yahya Khan had certainly all these traits.

The process reached its peak under Zia and now we have these fascist tendencies hiding behind the garb of Islam. Otherwise, any Muslim would know the oft quoted saying of Prophet Muhammed: "That an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.". Any illosions of superirority would go to the bin if they were actually claiming to be following Islam. To claim superirority because of an Arab descent is just a false sense of superirority with no basis.

@Tronic
I remember in a Psychology 101 class that a superiority complex is clinically considered to be an advanced stage of an inferiority complex. In otherwords, a person would try to declare or feel that his culture/religion/race is superior and other inferiror as a defence mechanism. Claiming a "foreign linage" looks similar to that. Infact, by and large most Pakistanis have that issue with Zaid Hamid being a perfect example of using superirority complex as a defence mechanism to hide their inferioritiy complex.

 

[Tronic]

@Tronic
I remember in a Psychology 101 class that a superiority complex is clinically considered to be an advanced stage of an inferiority complex. In otherwords, a person would try to declare or feel that his culture/religion/race is superior and other inferiror as a defence mechanism. Claiming a "foreign linage" looks similar to that. Infact, by and large most Pakistanis have that issue with Zaid Hamid being a perfect example of using superirority complex as a defence mechanism to hide their inferioritiy complex.

Yes, I completely agree with you. That's exactly what I sensed out of those chaps! A sense of inferiority being shielded by a facade of superiority. Once you get to know them on a personal level, it's actually not that hard to see through it, and at times, it does make you feel sorry for them.

Most people, I believe, are too judgmental without actually getting to know Pakistanis on a personal level. To quote Aatish Taseer about the Pakistani mindset, he put it perfectly, "behind the bluster and the bravado [put up by the Pakistanis], there is arid pain and sadness."

 

[KS]

Pakistani Army is built upon ethnic Jatts, Ghakkars, Gujjars, Rajputs and Pathans. Pakistan is a deeply racist country, therefore the large majority of those claiming "Persian/Turk/Arab" origins are actually the discriminated and downtrodden Muslims, such as the Muhajirs, who attempt to brand themselves a different race to avoid discrimination. There are even other lower clans, such as the Mirasis, who claim to be Arab descendants to try and fit better into their racial society. Regardless of claiming foreign origins, the Muhajirs and Mirasis still sit at the bottom, being discriminated by all the other indic-Punjabi clans. Racist realities of the land called Pakistan!

Actually on the basis of my limited knowledge on Muhajirs from observation at PDF, muhajirs are actually the most proud of their Urdu/sub-continental heritage and Pak Punjabis the most likely to claim some foreign lineage. I could be wrong though..

 

[Ray]

Main iss haramzadi qaum ki nasal badal doon ga. Yeh mujhe kiya samajhtey hain. He threatened that he would let his soldiers loose on their womenfolk.

Good for him!

In the bargain, the Bengalis genetically modified him and he was presented to the world as an Impotent Wimp, who achieved sexual gratification by using his own organ in his rectal passage!

 

[Tronic]

Actually on the basis of my limited knowledge on Muhajirs from observation at PDF, muhajirs are actually the most proud of their Urdu/sub-continental heritage and Pak Punjabis the most likely to claim some foreign lineage. I could be wrong though..

The time I was on PDF, years back, it was run by a bunch of Hindko chaps posing as full on Pashtuns, i.e., Neo and Jana. They decided to deride Indian members in their native tongue, forgetting the fact that Hindko is, to a large extent, intelligible to Punjabi speakers! When I called them out on their facade, and asked them to speak in Pashto, rather than Hindko, they flatly refused! Obviously, they didn't know Pashto and were putting up a facade!

The so called "Pak Punjabis" on that forum are a similar story. Several claim to be Pak Punjabis and put on a charade, but when pressed on why they don't know a word of Punjabi, they eventually claimed to be "half-Muhajirs". Some, who beat their chest at being foreign, are most likely from the backward Punjabi castes/clans.

That said, online forums are actually an extremely poor guage to judge a people, especially when you can't talk to them face to face. You have to get to know the people personally to get an insight into them. Pakistanis are great people, but they have an inherent inferiority complex, all thanks to the BS country which they ended up with. Infact, their hatred of India too is to shield their inferiority complex and to feel important.

I have many Pakistani Punjabi friends who openly talk about their grandfathers or great-grandfathers being Kashmiri Pandits, or well known Sikhs; and these guys even have their recorded family history passed down from generations, and are even able to tell you their forefathers exact Hindu or Sikh names! On the other hand, I know of a recent Pakistani Punjabi immigrant girl, straight from a village in Gujranwala district, who is fixated at trying to look "Arab" or "Egyptian", but plays totally dumb and claims to have never heard the words "Gujjar", "Jatt", "Rajput", etc, etc.

The thing is, Punjab actually does have many "foreign origin" clans, such as the Bastis, Sheranis, Lodhis, Turkhals, Niazis, and many more! However, they are well integrated Punjabi speaking people, and are actually no different than the other Punjabi clans in terms of hierarchy. Some of these foreign clans are considered peasants, some of them are Zamindars. Simply being foreign doesn't make them above rest of the clans; therefore, the actual Punjabis don't make such a big issue out of it, as much as the pseudo-foreigners do.