ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by nitesh, Feb 12, 2009.

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Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  1. Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    311 vote(s)
    51.6%
  2. Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    16 vote(s)
    2.7%
  3. Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    22 vote(s)
    3.6%
  4. Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    254 vote(s)
    42.1%
  1. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I remember very clearly discussing this several years ago and still the Aeronautical Development Agency's publicity department (or whatever they call it) continues to repeat the same old shtick. This time, they are packaging Close Air Support as Battle Field Air Support.

    ADAPublicityHoarding.jpg
     
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  2. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Brilliance Senior Member

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    http://www.tejas.gov.in/technology/fly_by_wire.html

    Besides three different versions of Tejas are flying with the RSS 4 channel all digital fly by wire system, with slightly different airframes,

    1.Naval Tejas with LEVCONs,

    2.Trainer with two seater arrangement,

    3.Airforce tejas, without LEVCONs which is the older version.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017 at 9:23 AM
  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Thank you. The rest of the information is fine.

    This is what the source says:
    This is what you said:
    It looks like the plane itself is not stable w.r.t. pitch. It is the Control Laws that maintain ("recover" [sic.]) stability.

    [​IMG]

    Static Relaxed Stability

    upload_2017-12-5_22-38-31.png

    I am not very sure where the CG of the aircraft lies. If it has static relaxed stability, it means the CG would be ahead of the CL. However, given that Control Laws are used to maintain the pitch of the aircraft and that the aircraft is longitudinally unstable, I suspect the CG is very close to or on the CL.

    It would be interesting to learn where exactly the CG lies w.r.t. the CL, but then again, with so many versions of LCA being developed with different types of equipment, one couldn't be sure what applies to which version.
     
  4. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Brilliance Senior Member

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    World over improvement in her engine technology relies on ,

    increasing TET (Turbine Entry Temperature) by improving metallurgy of the core hot section, increasing operating pressure ratios & dropping engine stages.

    All these generally yield a lighter weight engine , which generates more thrust by increased thermodynamic efficiency.
     
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  5. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Brilliance Senior Member

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    CL is in font of CG in all Relaxed Static Stability fly by wire airframes.

    In tejas too CL is in font of CG,

    This enables the fighter to pitch up instantly in close combat, when pilots manoeuvre it.

    This leads to higher G onset rates & higher Instantaneous Turn Rates , critical in close combat survivability & missile evasion.

    Only mirage(lesser powered ,analog tech) has such RSS tech in IAF.
    I am sure about IAF Tejas version.

    But trainers too should hv such arrangement , to be meaning ful. But I hv no source about it & naval tejas
     
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  6. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Loiter time is very valuable in CAS, Troops require ground support in frequent manner ..

    The aircraft make strike runs and loiter at designated altitude before its called again for ground strikes ..

     
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  7. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Brilliance Senior Member

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    Are you sure about the length of 414?
     
  8. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Singapore Defense Minister Ng Eng Hen Visits Training at Kalaikunda Air Force Station

    Missiles sit on the tarmac in front of an Indian Air Force (IAF) Tejas fighter jet, developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., at the Kalaikunda Air Force Station, West Bengal, India, on Tuesday, Nov. 28, 2017. Singapore's Defense Minister Ng Eng Hen is scheduled to speak in New Delhi at a Brookings India event on the subject of India-Singapore security relations. Photographer: Anindito Mukherjee/Bloomberg via Getty Images
     
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  9. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    • "Loiter time is very valuable in CAS." - Agree.
    • "Troops require ground support in frequent manner." - Agree.
    • "The aircraft make strike runs and loiter at designated altitude before its called again for ground strikes .." Agree if the aircraft is a straight wing aircraft. Disagree if it is a delta wing aircraft.

    Two most widely used CAS aircraft are Fairchild Republic A-10 and Sukhoi-25. None of them are delta-wing.

    On the other hand, I have not seen any major military power use Mirage-2000, MiG-21, or something that looks like LCA for CAS.

    __________________

    Swept wing and delta-wing are good for high-speed.
    Straight wing is good for low speed.

    High Speed Aircraft usually have swept wing or delta wing.

    Examples:

    upload_2017-12-6_19-38-33.jpeg
    MiG-17

    upload_2017-12-6_19-38-53.jpeg
    F-86


    [​IMG]
    AĆ©rospatiale/BAC Concorde

    [​IMG]
    Tupolev-144

    Low Speed Aircraft usually have straight wing:

    [​IMG]
    Fairchild Republic A-10

    [​IMG]
    Sukhoi-25

    Hybrid High-Speed and Low-Speed is achieved by variable geometry wings. In other words, these aircraft can be both straight wing as well as swept wing.

    [​IMG]
    Tupolev-160


    [​IMG]
    Rockwell B-1
     
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  10. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    In Indian context, during Kargil War MIG-21 and Mirage 2000 both took part in CAS, MIG-21 is doing this role since 71 war ..

    These are not dedicated ground attack fighters but multi-role in nature, This leads to design trade off which gives it capability of conducting CAS but not a fully fledged CAS aircraft ..

     
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  11. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    You are mistaking the strength of a design to its role. A delta wing has strength in terms of -
    1) better fuel efficiency and control in transonic and supersonic speed (0.8Mach+)
    2) higher instantaneous turn rates (but lower sustained turn rates)
    3) rigidity of design ensure that composite usage can be much higher. Metal usage can be lowered as the design itself has inherent rigidity.

    But, this doesn't mean it can't be used for ground attack. With older planes and dumb bombs, this might have been the case. But with guided bombs, the ground attack roles have become much easier and accurate. It is better to have a fighter jet that is more focused on air-air ability than air to ground ability. Ground targets are much slower and mostly static while air targets require higher focus to dogfight, evade missiles and prevent infiltration.

    By this logic, a delta wing aircraft is actually better suited for multirole mission than a fighter like F16.

    PS- dumb bombs are no longers meaningful. We saw in Kargil how these dumb bombs had a hit rate of 2%. Guided bombs are now simpler to make with Indian IRNSS system based guidance. It requires minimum addition in terms if gliding foldable wings and GOS receivers and doesn't cost much either
     
  12. rohit b3

    rohit b3 Regular Member

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  13. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    The HAL report was quoting some older prototype specifications, This is a PIB report from Tejas IOC-2 ceremony, Its stated that its combat radius upto 500kms and payload is certainly not 5000kgs but Tejas MK-1 can just about carry 4000 kgs of payload realistically.

    [​IMG]

    Please refer to this regarding ferry range and combat radius, with payload specification which are posted in last few pages ..
     
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  14. Sancho

    Sancho Regular Member

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    You are mixing up 2 things here. Once the design for CAS specific fighters and secondly the CAS capability of multi role fighters.

    CAS fighters are designed for that specific role only, the aim then will be on load, slow speed manuverability or low level performance. Multi role fighters on the other hand, are designed for air combats and geared for a secondary strike capability (some fighters more than others).
    I showed it recently in this very thread (sadly the post was moved), that LCA can carry the same LGB strike load as a Jaguar that was designed for strike. So today any modern fighter can do CAS even with delta wing designs.
     
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  15. tejas warrior

    tejas warrior Senior Member Senior Member

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    #TejasUpdate #1 | 7 Dec 2017 | #Tarmak007

    As a run-up to the FOC in 2018, #Tejas LSP-8 is optimising flight profiles with the in-flight refueling probe (IFR). Air-to-air refueling trials will begin early 2018. First dry contact followed by wet trials. So far, LSP-8 flew 44 sorties with IFR. #DNKT

    FB_IMG_1512653511258.jpg
     
  16. kamaal

    kamaal Regular Member

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    Though very happy with the IFR development but the current design does block pilot's view. It should have been little on the right side to avoid disturbance.

    I think there is some electronic equipment blocking the right side of the nose cone, may be the Radar or something else.
     
  17. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    I don't think that black protruding object is a test equipment. I don't think refueling pods are like that. I am not sure though
     
  18. kamaal

    kamaal Regular Member

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    Your skepticism is right the pic is photoshoped.
    Here is original LSP with IFR probe. The probe starts from little center of the nose cone and then it is angled towards right, which is probably the best HAL could do with such small space to work on.
    I don't know how many flight test will it take to start refueling test.
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. darshan978

    darshan978 Regular Member

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    Isnt it mock up?...........................
     
  20. wuzetian

    wuzetian Regular Member

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    When is Tejas FOC ?

    Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk
     

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