A force similar to Waffen SS

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Austinjimson, Aug 21, 2015.

  1. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    Why can't India have a force similar to Waffen SS which operated along with Wehrmacht ( Nazi german army) in WW2. They are specialized infantry division equipped with state of the art weapons. These guys don't surrender and fight till bitter end unlike army which might surrender when they are completely surrounded and supplies completely exhausted. Waffen SS are hardcore patriots who doesn't tolerate anything against Nazi germany at all. Waffen SS are completely different from army as they are hardcore fanatics and operate independent. They operate along with the army in war when army faces stiff resistance from opposition and they are meant to destroy the resistance so that troops advance easily . So guys whats your take on this??

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  3. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Every army has these type of units. Wehrmacht is no exception.

    Units in the battle are given independence to operate the way they want I.e. retreat, surrender or die.

    At Saraghai on Afghanistan border, Sikh soldiers, in all 28 of them decided not to surrender in 1897 but decided to die under overwhelming odds of ten thousand afghan tribesmen surrounding them. Same came true in 1962 when 122 soldiers of Mahar Regiment in Rejang La, Ladakh died including Major Shaitaan Singh against, again overwhelming odds of Chinese attack from three sides. They could have vacated the post but chose to die and not to let Chinese occupy the post. It came true again in 1971 when Major Kuldip Chandpuri decided not to vacate Longewala Post in Rajasthan against overwhelming odds of 45 tanks and regiment of Pakistani army surrounding them. His actions handed a major victory to India in 1971.

    Indian Army has more heroes and traditions of the regiment follows them and surrender is rarely thought about unless their commander orders them in order to save lives.

    Some ugly moments of surrender exist in Indian Army too I.e. Brigadier Dalvi at Thagla Ridge, in 1962 and some officers at SELA Battle also in 1962.

    The worst are the Pakistanis, whose 95,000 soldiers under not so overwhelming odds decided to surrender in 1971 in Dhaka, Bangladesh. They could have kept the fight going for several months. They had supplies for that. Again in 1965 at Khemkaran, a Brigadier, four Colonels and huge number of Pakistani officers surrendered with brand new tanks, some of the tanks had their motor running when they surrendered. These blots do not speak of a highly professional army of Pakistan. They had been given overwhelming psychological advantage by the British masters, as they recruited Punjabi Musalman in preference. For them they were politically reliable. Moguls and other Muslim rulers of India did not recruit Punjabi Musalman, as they thought them more of looters than soldiers to fulfill Moghul king's agenda.
     
  4. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Finnish Battalion was unique from the other Freiwilliger of the Wiking division, such as the Dutch or the Norwegian contingents in Westland and Nordland, by the fact that it's Officer's and NCO's were ex-Finn Army veterans, and fully in charge. The Finns were always an independent breed, and their first introduction to German 'parade-ground' discipline was met by a steely disregard for German language "befehle." (orders). The Finns held out for Finnish language NCO's, and it was there and then that the Germans realized that this contingent might be formed up and kitted out as a Waffen-SS unit, but would ultimately be commanded only by Finnish speaking Officers.

    http://www.feldgrau.com/finland.html
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    Waffen SS technically speaking are not part of army but they are there to support army. They are die hard troops. In our case those who failed qualify in the army for lets say written exam but they are physically fit and die hard patriots should join into a force similar to Waffen SS and should be made to fight in the frontline just like army.

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  6. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    They should be having their own infantry division, tank division ,artillery division. If I were a General for such a force. I would have made following changes .I would have equipped the tank division Arjun mbts in large numbers to boost indegenous manufacturing rather than going for imports. Infantry division with indegenous MCIWS and MSMC guns. All these guys gets indegenous weapons which is a boon for indegenous defense industrial base.

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  7. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Khalsa. - Khalistan Lahore to Peshawar. There's your 'front line force'
     
  8. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    Importing is not an option for force similar to this. A true patriot army officer of such a force believes in indegenous defense weapons rather than relaying on imports.

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  9. rohit.gr77

    rohit.gr77 Regular Member

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    Do you mean to suggest something like the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps? They are similar to Waffen SS in modern times. Don't know about their bravery or commitments though.
     
  10. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    Yep similar to them but trained by former army personals and operate along with army to support army. Should have their own tank division consisting of Arjun MBTs and FICVs, full fledged infantry division,artillery division, singals,engineer divisions and special forces. Usually guys who didn't get through army selection for minor reasons but die hard patriots and want to fight for the nation. These guys should be in frontline along with army. They should be equipped with indigenous weaponry.

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  11. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    Just like former Iraqi Republican guards.

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  12. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    Waffen SS was the armed wing of the Nazi party.

    Indian constitution doesn't allow anyone (including any political party) to have their own such army.

    But India does have few Paramilitary forces anyway.

    try this ............................... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitary_forces_of_India
     
  13. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    What I meant is not armed forces of any political party. But a die hard patriotic Indian who couldn't get selected into the army but still he want to fight in the frontline along with army. Those paramilitary forces in Wikipedia are meant to maintain law and order. But this force should be stationed along with army and meant to be used as a strike force for offensive roles

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  14. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    They have to accommodate them among these three forces some where, that is the option left, I am afraid.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitary_forces_of_India
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Armed_Police_Forces#Sashastra_Seema_Bal_.28SSB.29
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Armed_Forces
     
  15. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    Shastra Seema Bal personnel are armed border police force along Nepal Border. But the one I thought of is force armed with heavy weaponary and big guns like tanks,artillery etc and who can operate independently and along with army when army needs them to break through tough enemy resistance. These troops should be highly motivated in such a way that they like living in hell ( or they love be in most difficult situations). if I had 40 division of these troops along with supporting units. 20 should be specifically motivated against pakistanis and rest 20 specially against Chinese . These guys should be permanently deployed for offensive and not to be rotated.

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  16. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    India's cold start doctrine incorporates many elements of the blitzkrieg no need to have specialized divisions when you have large battle groups prepared to implement this(against a terrorist nuclear nation)
     
  17. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    But this force should be such that they should deal pakis and chinese with brute force and this force should be a worst nightmare for them. They should be the one taking on first and last bullets . For me to equip such a force with indegenous Arjun MK2 tanks and Bhim spg,pinaka mbrls as artillery IN LARGE numbers (Not just few hundreds) are quite important. Latest indegenous guns like MCIWS and MSMC should be given to them first for testing in real combat. Eg Waffen SS were the first to receive STG-44 (father of AK-47) assault rifles before wehermacht(german army)

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  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    This doctrine is enough to cause the Pakistanis to expand their nuclear program.
    It is fast and brutal slaughter . The doctrine in the northeast against china where the terrain is different. Mountain strike corps similar to us special forces have been deployed.
     
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  19. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    For chinese we should need a good planning and more success should be achieved with limited resources and indegenious manufacturing base should be improved to equip such a force.

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    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  20. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    In todays context such will be tagged as rogue army . When put in action these could escalate the war into many levels quicker than with conventional army.

    Any escalation done by pure adrenaline by such forces will throw any diplomatic posturing and a scope for peaceful negotiation right out of the window.


    Doesnt it sound like the Pakistani theme of "stateless actors" .
    India should not use such tactics. Our force and doctrine is good enough to fend off the enemy.

    IMO, India should have and operate well equipped clandestine forces inside the enemy territory completely under the command and control of our intel divisions.
     
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  21. Austinjimson

    Austinjimson Regular Member

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    This is different from so called "good terrorism" of Pakistan. This group should be given heavy weaponry like tanks especially indegenous Arjun MBT and artillery like indegenous Bhim spg in large numbers.These should be trained in military style by former army men and should work along wih army. These are specialized division meant to spear head offensive maneuver with brute force .

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