14-year-old killed for refusing to marry father’s cousin

Discussion in 'China' started by Iamanidiot, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    Jinnahs Pakistan in full glory seriously what sort of beast would do that to his own daughter.Pakistanis moral standards are getting higher and higher every day
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2011
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  3. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    I feel sad for poor girl . she has to go through so much of trauma at such a young age. I wonder where that land of pures is going .
     
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I think its a sub continental thing. I think we have such kinds of incidents in India as well. Social issues. Pride and stuff.
     
  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I think one has to check as to the percentages of the mindset which go in for this type of a thing in Pakistan, India or Bangladesh.

    In Pakistan, it is a matter or routine. They are antediluvian and mediaeval. One cannot airbrush that fact. In India, I am sure it must be happening, but it is the exception if one takes the population as a whole.

    Let us look at the difference between Pakistan and Bangladesh. They were one country and yet the mindset is so different. Pakistan is archaic and in comparison, Bangladesh is tolerant and progressive and care for humanity over other issues.

    PAKISTAN

    BANGLADESH

    Compare the difference.

    Pakistan encourages and hero worships a murderer claiming that he has done right by the religion (note: it is not all who are of the same hue. There are the very marginal minority as assassinated Governor and Sherry Rehman who represent humane attitude).

    Pakistan does not want to protect the rights of the minority that the Constitution warrants and instead uses falsehood to undertake a false case that can result in execution.

    Yet, in so far as Bangladesh is concerned, it is the public outcry at the inhuman act of the mullah and their illegal Shariah court that has spurred the Govt machinery to take cognisance and act. And they are also Muslims as they are in Pakistan with the same religious edicts to follow!! One is tolerant and keeping with the world and the other sinking into antediluvian and mediaeval morass to further sink their country into irretrievable swamp!

    In India, one is not clean either. There are the so called khaps in certain parts of the country. However, the saving grace is that it is tightly restricted to specific boundaries and India, as a country, condemns it and not make such devilish people into heroes!
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2011
  6. Welcome

    Welcome Regular Member

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    @Yusuf ...u can't compare india with pakistan. no doubt there is india also face lot of honor killing but there is little difference B/W india and pakistan. In india except haryana state no socially responsible organization like Media, NGO or Govt. never protect this type of crime or any type of crime but in pakistan we usually found that these organisation always protect this type of criminals. we have lot of example like recent blasphemy law case or govt and politician support to taliban or jihad. so please if you compare india with pakistan than please also give reason why u r comparing.
     
  7. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Interesting analysis by Ray.

    In general, Yusuf is right that South Asian countries have a cultural predisposition towards honour killing and such stuff, but Pakistan has grown progressively worse over the decades while India and BD have progressed on this front. This trend seems to be continuing, and things are only getting worse in Pakistan as the days go by. India, fortunately for us, has a huge liberal middle class which makes a big noise each time such things happen. Also, with increasing economic development and an expanding middle class, I stick my neck out and predict that these things will be relegated to the dustbin of history in India, within the next 20 years. Just like Sati, Human sacrifice etc. have passed, this will pass too. 20 years is what I give it.
     
  8. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    I despise such conversations from fellow Indians when they go after and generalize based on Horse's rear intuition. It really shows us in a bad light. Just the mere population of India over Pakistan will logically say that India has both Hindus and Muslims who practice it- yielding a higher rate of honor killings.

    Even if there is a small advantage in numbers of honor killings in Pakistan I ask- what is the difference hypothetically between 2000 killed in Pak vs. 1950 in India. No difference in my eyes to say " well, I think it more of a Pak issue".

    Because the human psychology is such , the moment you define it as " more of the other guys issue" - it tends to be dismissive of ones own ( country in the case) record.

    what's next , look at the blouse Pakistanis wear vs Indians, it makes them more susceptible to be honor killed( some will get the sarcasm)? get off the analogies...

    YUSUF you are spot on! - Know this, there are those who may not have a 'rank' , but talk more sense than generations of those who claim their intelligence is based on some darn rank achieved. I've met more unqualified people amongst them than I care to count.

    OH Look Horses!

    RAY I DON"T WHAT YOU GOT AGAINST AN IMAGE OF AN HORSE THAT YOU COMING AND DELETING THE IMAGE. BUT TILL YOU TELL ME - IF YOU HAVE SOME SANE REASON TO - I "LL KEEP ADDING IT BACK as I long I pay attention to this post!


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
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  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The issue is it being a subcontinental malaise.

    Matthew Goldstein has noted that honour killings were encouraged in ancient Rome, where male family members who did not take actions against the female adulterers in their family were "actively persecuted".

    It has been practised in most civilisations but were discontinued as education and emancipation flourished.

    Therefore, there is no comparison in numbers, but numbers signify whether a society is becoming progressive and keeping with modern and contemporary societal norms or are still clinging on to the past practices. Likewise, is the case of social indicators of intolerance and tolerance and societal reactions.

    Thus, the issue is co relationship of the mindset with the malady.

    Examples of Bangaldesh and Pakistan is indicative of the co relationship of the mindset to the malady wherein even when all standards were the same, the mindset was different and hence the differentiation of the wheat from the chaff.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2011
  10. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    I had a dream where I wished that someone here was telling people that incoherent wordiness does not equate intelligence! this is not about grammar or typos ( Lord knows I disregard it in many of my postings) or vocabulary------- rather, its mind numbing use of incoherent ramblings and analogies thinking wordiness equals godliness!

    Then I pinched myself, realized it was only a dream .
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2011
  11. captonjohn

    captonjohn Regular Member

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    A murder is a murder wether it is in Pakistan or in India. Such cases of honor killing is occurring in india too and increasing in dangerous manner. Forget about Media, NGO or Govt because they all are just doing their business. They shout at place where thousands of people and media can cover them so that they can get exposure. They do it for their own interest NOT for general public help. Several times such NGO and Human right commission have criticized indian security forces when they killed some well known Decoit or criminal but they don't say a single word for those security personals who got killed by same criminals because they don't get any exposure or any advantage on it.

    Not saying a single word and a remaining silent on such issue instead of condemning is also a type of support to such actions. A murder is murder anyway, a crime is a crime wether it in India or pakistan so comparison would take place. Don't you think this reason is enough to compare both nation.
     
  12. captonjohn

    captonjohn Regular Member

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    Look at this gentle lady who proud on her husband. Can anybody would tell her about the difference between right to live & freedom and elders wishes? One day when she will be killed in same way then she'll understand about the real meaning about her words.
     
  13. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Nope. It might be an evil existing in some closed societies of sub-continent, but in India this sort of shit is not glorified like the Land of the Pure. That is specifically given a religious tone so that there are no critics for the action and passed away as legal or at the best left as it is.
     
  14. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    I know that people on this forum will protest high-heaven when I say this - Muslim countries anywhere in the world have a very unique form of delivering justice when it comes to their citizens.

    Punishment for the exact same offense is always heavier for the female.

    The young under-aged female get slowly sadistically beaten and tortured to death by the Mullahs for illicit sex, and the male conveniently runs away and escapes punishment.

    Here is another variation of the theme: The female get raped and shamed and the murdered by her own family for disgracing their honour, and the rapists get away with a few months jail time.

    A Muslim woman caught drinking beer in a pub is ordered to be caned, but Muslim men do it every day in Malaysia and no one gives a shit.

    The women are always punished twice or 10 times as hard as the men - why ?? So that women are constantly reminded of the place in society as below men.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of Islamic Sharia-style justice !!
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
  15. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    By your logic- India being the 3rd largest Muslim populated country should be counted among those backward thinking forms of justice then. because shockingly I learned that India has religious courts too.

    This is not just directed at you but others too- to get off the high horse of dispensing and pointing fingers at other countries. The India today is far worse than when I left - it in terms of crimes of such nature. We also never had so many rapes purported in the 80's. and I suspect into much of the 90's.

    sometime back I had commented to my brother in Pune , that I suspect its is because, and I know this may sound like an old man, but western media influence. Let me cite a personal example and I don't mean this in some perverted way- but as an example of the social status during those decades- Getting laid in the 80's and into the 90's was so tough :) and mind you I was considered a very good looking guy- was no1 athlete at Bombay Scottish school, state athletic medals too, then graduated from NM university. Had tons of girlfriends but did not get to 2nd base but very very rarely.

    Now I hear about how promiscuous young teenagers are there. Does that mean I advocate banning western culture influences? hell no--- I'm just stating my opinion on why we see such aggressive behaviors towards women.

    Botton line still is- Indians can't claim any mantle of " look it more prevalent in Pakistan or Bangladesh" . The trifecta of Inda/Pak/bangla are in the same boat . But I'll give you that india is working towards reducing it more than others through more " reachout" programs in villages
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
  16. RAM

    RAM The southern Man Senior Member

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    These incidents as every one described resonates the vices of the Subcontinent when we have a progressive front one side and less known front of acheronian age .And its a pity this is goes on as an never ending process.However nice to read some good points from this thread and various perspectives.

     
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  17. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Pardon me Jay, but you are rambling. Please save your stories about your good looks for some other forum. Pls spare DFI readers details of your pathetic sex life. No one gives a shit !

    While there are crazy customs in India, you won't ever see an underaged woman flogged to death in a public square.
    No freaking Mullah in India would ever attempt such a stunt.

    The reason this crap happens in Muslim countries is because there is an implicit level of tolerance in these societies for such punkass tactics. That simply won't fly in India.

    No one is arguing that women have it great in India. But at least in India you won't have a judicial authority sentence a 14 y/o girl to be flogged to death in public.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
  18. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    Apparently you did not get it- that the very fact it was pathetic- I was pointing out how much more conservative the soceity was. But then again- I did doubt that some won't get it. It was too much a cerebral analogy and I'll give you that I slightly deviated into my opinion on why women are being mistreated at a higher rate in India than when I lived there. I will make sure to explain my points in plain speak in future when replying to you. Please accept my apologies for perturbing you with my account :)

    Moving on to your claim of no judicial system would allow actions similar to the one in the article. Are you sure you know about what goes on in the villages by ' elders' or Panchayats who still execute justice in there? are you aware that sharia court is also practiced in India. Do I have to pull out articles showing injustices done in such villages.

    The argument here is not that there are no crazies to our left and right nor it's to compare one act on the east or west to what India would do in that specific case. Rather, it is of saying ---there is no room to point fingers as it only happens there, when in India , it happens too with unacceptable frequency .

    She got flogged and our women get raped in Delhi and elsewhere when walking to work. Your stance is coming across as-" Oh look , at lest ours don't get the flogging by some archaic judicial system", it's those darn Muslim countries.

    honestly man, you might have some truth in what you are saying statistically, but you have no truth in implying that they deserve greater scorn over India or it something special to them in how they treat or mistreat women in those cultures.

    P.S don't be a hater_ I can't help it that I was made so good looking :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
  19. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    LOL.....You are a very funny guy... Jay......I give you that much. You are so good looking that you couldnt get any pussy in high school. Must be the girls were so blown over by your good looks.

    I cant say that I have travelled every square inch India and seen for myself how people live. Dude...i dont know which part of India you are from, but I am a Malayalee from Kerala, and nothing like this or even anything remotely similar has ever happened there. Yes women do get harassed and occassionally there are rapes. Violence against women happens all over the world.

    But only in Muslim countries do you see Senior members of the Clergy dispensing justice that tortures women by flogging, stoning them to death, etc. This happens too frequently in Muslim countries too be wiped under the table quietly. It happens even more to non-Muslim minority women in Muslim majority countries.
     

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